I don't think there is a good argument for why you should get more of my money

[Anonymous]

This is why we need a consumption tax rather than income tax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is why we need a consumption tax rather than income tax.

The hard part is that a consumption tax puts the heaviest burden on the poor and middle class. Those fortunate enough to make more than they spend get a free ride on what they save. Sure, it encourages saving. But do we want the richest people to be taxed only on a fraction of their income?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why we need a consumption tax rather than income tax.

The hard part is that a consumption tax puts the heaviest burden on the poor and middle class. Those fortunate enough to make more than they spend get a free ride on what they save. Sure, it encourages saving. But do we want the richest people to be taxed only on a fraction of their income?

I wouldn't call it a free ride actually. Do I want them taxed on a fraction of their income? No -- I don't want us to get into the debates about the income, merit, hard work, etc. There is something fundamentally amiss in taxing hard work and industry.

[Anonymous]

How about adding a luxury tax?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: There is something fundamentally amiss in taxing hard work and industry.

I don't think there is an absolute correlation between hard work and wealth. I sit on my ass all day at a computer. I am very well paid. Do I work harder than the lady at McDonalds, or the lady who cleans my house, or the daycare worker who watches my kid, or the barista at Mcdonalds? I got lucky. My parents were successful enough to live in a good neighborhood, send me to a good elementary school, and pay for my college. Call me crazy, I also think being white and not bad looking may have helped me get ahead.

I guess I think it's OK that I am in a different tax bracket than those workers I just named. I don't think I am better than anybody else, and more fundamentally deserving of my good job and all the benefits that come with it. I think that in addition to striving to get here, I got some breaks that others might not have.

[Anonymous]

"absolute correlation between hard work and wealth"

A myth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP, I could say the exact same things that you have said in your post (except for law school). We both studied hard, we both work hard, paid our way and were never given a thing - not by our parents, or by society as a whole, other than opportunity. We make good money. Less than half of what you make, but we're happy with that. And we still feel like we would happily pay more in taxes if that meant better education for kids and better and more affordable healthcare for families. Yes, even others' kids and others' families. It's just a matter of priorities.

This!! I could have written this! I think our HHI is probably around $220K, but we both grew up in lower-middle class in the midwest. We honestly don't even know what to do with all our money now, and we have two kids in daycare, a house, two cars, retirement savings, college savings for the kids, etc. We are just so blessed. I look some years at what we pay in taxes and realize it is more than my parents even earn combined in a single year. The number seems big, but I really don't mind. I would pay more, too, if it meant others would get more basic services.

Are you an alien from outer space who just happened to find DCUM? I completely agree with you but this is so not a DCUM response, I wonder if I am in a parallel univrse.

Good for you PP, you are inspiring.

This is a normal person who lives in a nice suburban area in Fairfax County. Children have access to good public schools. Parks, recreation, etc. Decent education and access to affordable healthcare are important. Law and order maintained. Infrastructure maintained. FAPE is free appropriate public education. I wish I was a "government worker" at Fannie Mae. Best govt pay scale in the USA,.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who is the "you" who is getting the money. The implication of the title is that this money is going directly into people's pockets. It's not. To have a country like we do, there are costs. We have public education, a massive military, public roads, parks, libraries, and other services, police and fire departments, welfare and unemployment programs, etc, etc, etc. These all cost money. You utilize many of them. So, you must pay for some of them.

With income down in the country, and the primary source of funding these services income tax, than taxes must be increased. Who would you rather have pay for it? The people without any jobs? And before you insist that you didn't ask for any of those things, the fact is they exist and they have benefited you in one way or another, and likely benefited you more than most other folks. You can't, after the fact, say, "Well, I don't want that." You (not just you, we all are) are a product of our system. Many of us had inherent benefits given to us, unearned benefits. Many of these were predicated upon legal, political, financial, and social institutions that propped up some at the expense of others. It's the people who are born on 3rd base and think they hit a triple.

It sounds like you worked hard. Good for you. But many others worked hard and didn't have the opportunities you did. As much as you think you did it on your own, you didn't. And for that, you must give back.

Much of your laundry list is out of state and local taxes. Public school has been around for decades. Financial aid through grants-can get through college with little or no debt. Others pay for it with after tax income. I suspect many of you have little kids and are not aware of where the $ of the 400k and 200k family will be going in about 15 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"absolute correlation between hard work and wealth"

A myth.

The best statistical predictor of a child's future income is the wealth of his parents. I saw that in a book about behavioral economics, but I can't remember which. That is not to say that children can't do better - even a lot better. But overall it really matters where you start from. Whether your parents are dirt poor and you are helping to support them, or whether you can go to college but pay your own way, or whether your family can pay for the best schools all along and help connect you with your first job, it makes a difference. You will be better off if your father can get you a job at an investment bank than the kid with no connections who goes to state school. And she in turn will do better than the kid who works part time jobs after school to pay his mother's rent.

[Anonymous]

To the OP, I just want to reiterate this: "- the Bush tax cuts were TEMPORARY (you aren't entitled to them forever, thus the word temporary)"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: There is something fundamentally amiss in taxing hard work and industry.

I don't think there is an absolute correlation between hard work and wealth. I sit on my ass all day at a computer. I am very well paid. Do I work harder than the lady at McDonalds, or the lady who cleans my house, or the daycare worker who watches my kid, or the barista at Mcdonalds? I got lucky. My parents were successful enough to live in a good neighborhood, send me to a good elementary school, and pay for my college. Call me crazy, I also think being white and not bad looking may have helped me get ahead.

I guess I think it's OK that I am in a different tax bracket than those workers I just named. I don't think I am better than anybody else, and more fundamentally deserving of my good job and all the benefits that come with it. I think that in addition to striving to get here, I got some breaks that others might not have.

You miss my point. Yes, the McDonalds worker also works hard. If she works more shifts and makes more money, she, too, pays more tax. I don't support a system where this worker saves her money, goes to night school, graduates and gets a better job, and now she pays a much a higher tax.

[Anonymous]

It's not that I don't "support" it. I just think it's messed up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You miss my point. Yes, the McDonalds worker also works hard. If she works more shifts and makes more money, she, too, pays more tax. I don't support a system where this worker saves her money, goes to night school, graduates and gets a better job, and now she pays a much a higher tax.

So you think everyone should just pay a $10,000 or whatever tax?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why we need a consumption tax rather than income tax.

The hard part is that a consumption tax puts the heaviest burden on the poor and middle class. Those fortunate enough to make more than they spend get a free ride on what they save. Sure, it encourages saving. But do we want the richest people to be taxed only on a fraction of their income?

I wouldn't call it a free ride actually. Do I want them taxed on a fraction of their income? No -- I don't want us to get into the debates about the income, merit, hard work, etc. There is something fundamentally amiss in taxing hard work and industry.

Paris Hilton works very hard for her money.

[Anonymous]

Yes, we should absolutely decide tax policy based on Paris Hilton.