State set to keep MS math minutes requirement that will likely cut electives (but delaying it a year)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So pretty much every (MS) teacher has an advisory period-team leads/content specialists do not. So...why can't all the math teachers have large homerooms, use advisory time, and the other non-math teachers will be assigned a math teacher to assist with small groups, interventions,etc. Same amount of work for everyone, same periods, etc. This could take place in the gyms, media center, cafeteria, etc. to facilitate such large groups.

Because the language has a time requirement “for all math courses”, not advisory, not small group remediation. They could just get more teachers to add a math endorsement so an entire grade or even the school has math at the same time for 60 minutes and the rest of the day can have 45 minute periods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So pretty much every (MS) teacher has an advisory period-team leads/content specialists do not. So...why can't all the math teachers have large homerooms, use advisory time, and the other non-math teachers will be assigned a math teacher to assist with small groups, interventions,etc. Same amount of work for everyone, same periods, etc. This could take place in the gyms, media center, cafeteria, etc. to facilitate such large groups.

Because the language has a time requirement “for all math courses”, not advisory, not small group remediation. They could just get more teachers to add a math endorsement so an entire grade or even the school has math at the same time for 60 minutes and the rest of the day can have 45 minute periods.

The language says "60 cumulative minutes" which clearly implies that the instruction can happen at multiple times throughout a student's day.

We're having an important discussion here. Maybe don't comment about things you don't actually know about.

[Anonymous]

Who is this jerk of a poster? It literally says “all math courses”. So unless you start scheduling multiple math classes during the school day, how else will you get to your cumulative 60 minutes within a math course?!

You’re the stupid one BTW. How many years have you taught in schools and what are your endorsements? I’m sure ZERO

[Anonymous]

Blast math facts over the intercom during class passing minutes. Done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So pretty much every (MS) teacher has an advisory period-team leads/content specialists do not. So...why can't all the math teachers have large homerooms, use advisory time, and the other non-math teachers will be assigned a math teacher to assist with small groups, interventions,etc. Same amount of work for everyone, same periods, etc. This could take place in the gyms, media center, cafeteria, etc. to facilitate such large groups.

Because the language has a time requirement “for all math courses”, not advisory, not small group remediation. They could just get more teachers to add a math endorsement so an entire grade or even the school has math at the same time for 60 minutes and the rest of the day can have 45 minute periods.

The language says "60 cumulative minutes" which clearly implies that the instruction can happen at multiple times throughout a student's day.

We're having an important discussion here. Maybe don't comment about things you don't actually know about.

DP. What makes you think you know better? Do you have any inside intel?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So pretty much every (MS) teacher has an advisory period-team leads/content specialists do not. So...why can't all the math teachers have large homerooms, use advisory time, and the other non-math teachers will be assigned a math teacher to assist with small groups, interventions,etc. Same amount of work for everyone, same periods, etc. This could take place in the gyms, media center, cafeteria, etc. to facilitate such large groups.

Because the language has a time requirement “for all math courses”, not advisory, not small group remediation. They could just get more teachers to add a math endorsement so an entire grade or even the school has math at the same time for 60 minutes and the rest of the day can have 45 minute periods.

The language says "60 cumulative minutes" which clearly implies that the instruction can happen at multiple times throughout a student's day.

We're having an important discussion here. Maybe don't comment about things you don't actually know about.

MCPS staff (who are in a position to hear verbally from MSDE what they mean) certainly believe they are expected to have specific math classes (one group of kids taking i.e. "Math 6" or "Algebra 1" or whatever) scheduled for 300 minutes per week. As do all of the social studies, science, and arts teachers who have been lobbying MSDE to try to change this.

Yes, it can happen in multiple times through the day (i.e. non-consecutive double periods) but it is still supposed to be the same kids in a continuation of the same course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So pretty much every (MS) teacher has an advisory period-team leads/content specialists do not. So...why can't all the math teachers have large homerooms, use advisory time, and the other non-math teachers will be assigned a math teacher to assist with small groups, interventions,etc. Same amount of work for everyone, same periods, etc. This could take place in the gyms, media center, cafeteria, etc. to facilitate such large groups.

Because the language has a time requirement “for all math courses”, not advisory, not small group remediation. They could just get more teachers to add a math endorsement so an entire grade or even the school has math at the same time for 60 minutes and the rest of the day can have 45 minute periods.

The language says "60 cumulative minutes" which clearly implies that the instruction can happen at multiple times throughout a student's day.

We're having an important discussion here. Maybe don't comment about things you don't actually know about.

MCPS staff (who are in a position to hear verbally from MSDE what they mean) certainly believe they are expected to have specific math classes (one group of kids taking i.e. "Math 6" or "Algebra 1" or whatever) scheduled for 300 minutes per week. As do all of the social studies, science, and arts teachers who have been lobbying MSDE to try to change this.

Yes, it can happen in multiple times through the day (i.e. non-consecutive double periods) but it is still supposed to be the same kids in a continuation of the same course.

Who are you? I'm a math CS. The language is vague at best. Teachers speaking out are being proactive bc we never know what bs MCPS will pull. However, no one really knows whats going on right now, so you should also not post on behalf of ALL MCPS staff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So pretty much every (MS) teacher has an advisory period-team leads/content specialists do not. So...why can't all the math teachers have large homerooms, use advisory time, and the other non-math teachers will be assigned a math teacher to assist with small groups, interventions,etc. Same amount of work for everyone, same periods, etc. This could take place in the gyms, media center, cafeteria, etc. to facilitate such large groups.

Because the language has a time requirement “for all math courses”, not advisory, not small group remediation. They could just get more teachers to add a math endorsement so an entire grade or even the school has math at the same time for 60 minutes and the rest of the day can have 45 minute periods.

The language says "60 cumulative minutes" which clearly implies that the instruction can happen at multiple times throughout a student's day.

We're having an important discussion here. Maybe don't comment about things you don't actually know about.

MCPS staff (who are in a position to hear verbally from MSDE what they mean) certainly believe they are expected to have specific math classes (one group of kids taking i.e. "Math 6" or "Algebra 1" or whatever) scheduled for 300 minutes per week. As do all of the social studies, science, and arts teachers who have been lobbying MSDE to try to change this.

Yes, it can happen in multiple times through the day (i.e. non-consecutive double periods) but it is still supposed to be the same kids in a continuation of the same course.[/quote
Thanks for finally sharing where this information is coming from - unofficial verbal guidance to MCPS staff

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So pretty much every (MS) teacher has an advisory period-team leads/content specialists do not. So...why can't all the math teachers have large homerooms, use advisory time, and the other non-math teachers will be assigned a math teacher to assist with small groups, interventions,etc. Same amount of work for everyone, same periods, etc. This could take place in the gyms, media center, cafeteria, etc. to facilitate such large groups.

Because the language has a time requirement “for all math courses”, not advisory, not small group remediation. They could just get more teachers to add a math endorsement so an entire grade or even the school has math at the same time for 60 minutes and the rest of the day can have 45 minute periods.

The language says "60 cumulative minutes" which clearly implies that the instruction can happen at multiple times throughout a student's day.

We're having an important discussion here. Maybe don't comment about things you don't actually know about.

DP. What makes you think you know better? Do you have any inside intel? [/quote
I understand the meaning of the term "cumulative" and can look up the MSDE math policy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So pretty much every (MS) teacher has an advisory period-team leads/content specialists do not. So...why can't all the math teachers have large homerooms, use advisory time, and the other non-math teachers will be assigned a math teacher to assist with small groups, interventions,etc. Same amount of work for everyone, same periods, etc. This could take place in the gyms, media center, cafeteria, etc. to facilitate such large groups.

Because the language has a time requirement “for all math courses”, not advisory, not small group remediation. They could just get more teachers to add a math endorsement so an entire grade or even the school has math at the same time for 60 minutes and the rest of the day can have 45 minute periods.

The language says "60 cumulative minutes" which clearly implies that the instruction can happen at multiple times throughout a student's day.

We're having an important discussion here. Maybe don't comment about things you don't actually know about.

MCPS staff (who are in a position to hear verbally from MSDE what they mean) certainly believe they are expected to have specific math classes (one group of kids taking i.e. "Math 6" or "Algebra 1" or whatever) scheduled for 300 minutes per week. As do all of the social studies, science, and arts teachers who have been lobbying MSDE to try to change this.

Yes, it can happen in multiple times through the day (i.e. non-consecutive double periods) but it is still supposed to be the same kids in a continuation of the same course.

Who are you? I'm a math CS. The language is vague at best. Teachers speaking out are being proactive bc we never know what bs MCPS will pull. However, no one really knows whats going on right now, so you should also not post on behalf of ALL MCPS staff.

Thanks.
Eventually MSDE will release sample schedules. Right now there is no public information indicating that math instruction has to occur with the same group of kids as part of the same "course" or that it excludes small group remediation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So pretty much every (MS) teacher has an advisory period-team leads/content specialists do not. So...why can't all the math teachers have large homerooms, use advisory time, and the other non-math teachers will be assigned a math teacher to assist with small groups, interventions,etc. Same amount of work for everyone, same periods, etc. This could take place in the gyms, media center, cafeteria, etc. to facilitate such large groups.

Because the language has a time requirement “for all math courses”, not advisory, not small group remediation. They could just get more teachers to add a math endorsement so an entire grade or even the school has math at the same time for 60 minutes and the rest of the day can have 45 minute periods.

The language says "60 cumulative minutes" which clearly implies that the instruction can happen at multiple times throughout a student's day.

We're having an important discussion here. Maybe don't comment about things you don't actually know about.

MCPS staff (who are in a position to hear verbally from MSDE what they mean) certainly believe they are expected to have specific math classes (one group of kids taking i.e. "Math 6" or "Algebra 1" or whatever) scheduled for 300 minutes per week. As do all of the social studies, science, and arts teachers who have been lobbying MSDE to try to change this.

Yes, it can happen in multiple times through the day (i.e. non-consecutive double periods) but it is still supposed to be the same kids in a continuation of the same course.

Who are you? I'm a math CS. The language is vague at best. Teachers speaking out are being proactive bc we never know what bs MCPS will pull. However, no one really knows whats going on right now, so you should also not post on behalf of ALL MCPS staff.

When I said "MCPS staff" I meant the central office staff who are working with MSDE directly on this, not teachers who would be hearing it second or third-hand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So pretty much every (MS) teacher has an advisory period-team leads/content specialists do not. So...why can't all the math teachers have large homerooms, use advisory time, and the other non-math teachers will be assigned a math teacher to assist with small groups, interventions,etc. Same amount of work for everyone, same periods, etc. This could take place in the gyms, media center, cafeteria, etc. to facilitate such large groups.

Because the language has a time requirement “for all math courses”, not advisory, not small group remediation. They could just get more teachers to add a math endorsement so an entire grade or even the school has math at the same time for 60 minutes and the rest of the day can have 45 minute periods.

The language says "60 cumulative minutes" which clearly implies that the instruction can happen at multiple times throughout a student's day.

We're having an important discussion here. Maybe don't comment about things you don't actually know about.

MCPS staff (who are in a position to hear verbally from MSDE what they mean) certainly believe they are expected to have specific math classes (one group of kids taking i.e. "Math 6" or "Algebra 1" or whatever) scheduled for 300 minutes per week. As do all of the social studies, science, and arts teachers who have been lobbying MSDE to try to change this.

Yes, it can happen in multiple times through the day (i.e. non-consecutive double periods) but it is still supposed to be the same kids in a continuation of the same course.

Who are you? I'm a math CS. The language is vague at best. Teachers speaking out are being proactive bc we never know what bs MCPS will pull. However, no one really knows whats going on right now, so you should also not post on behalf of ALL MCPS staff.

When I said "MCPS staff" I meant the central office staff who are working with MSDE directly on this, not teachers who would be hearing it second or third-hand.

You also specifically referred to social studies, science and art teachers.

So to be clear, you are a central office staff member or are friends/family of one who has interpreted unofficial verbal guidance from MSDE to mean that every middle school student must receive 300 minutes of math instruction per week all with the same group of kids. And earlier in this thread you insisted it had to be 60 minutes DAILY which is in direct contradiction with the written policy.

Sounds to me like MCPS central office is developing its own policy and as with elementary math, is pretending it is determined entirely by MSDE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So pretty much every (MS) teacher has an advisory period-team leads/content specialists do not. So...why can't all the math teachers have large homerooms, use advisory time, and the other non-math teachers will be assigned a math teacher to assist with small groups, interventions,etc. Same amount of work for everyone, same periods, etc. This could take place in the gyms, media center, cafeteria, etc. to facilitate such large groups.

Because the language has a time requirement “for all math courses”, not advisory, not small group remediation. They could just get more teachers to add a math endorsement so an entire grade or even the school has math at the same time for 60 minutes and the rest of the day can have 45 minute periods.

The language says "60 cumulative minutes" which clearly implies that the instruction can happen at multiple times throughout a student's day.

We're having an important discussion here. Maybe don't comment about things you don't actually know about.

MCPS staff (who are in a position to hear verbally from MSDE what they mean) certainly believe they are expected to have specific math classes (one group of kids taking i.e. "Math 6" or "Algebra 1" or whatever) scheduled for 300 minutes per week. As do all of the social studies, science, and arts teachers who have been lobbying MSDE to try to change this.

Yes, it can happen in multiple times through the day (i.e. non-consecutive double periods) but it is still supposed to be the same kids in a continuation of the same course.

Who are you? I'm a math CS. The language is vague at best. Teachers speaking out are being proactive bc we never know what bs MCPS will pull. However, no one really knows whats going on right now, so you should also not post on behalf of ALL MCPS staff.

When I said "MCPS staff" I meant the central office staff who are working with MSDE directly on this, not teachers who would be hearing it second or third-hand.

You also specifically referred to social studies, science and art teachers.

So to be clear, you are a central office staff member or are friends/family of one who has interpreted unofficial verbal guidance from MSDE to mean that every middle school student must receive 300 minutes of math instruction per week all with the same group of kids. And earlier in this thread you insisted it had to be 60 minutes DAILY which is in direct contradiction with the written policy.

Sounds to me like MCPS central office is developing its own policy and as with elementary math, is pretending it is determined entirely by MSDE.

There are multiple people replying to you on this, FYI. I am the one who referred to social studies, science, and art teachers, but that was in reference to the ones from the subject-specific state associations who have testified at the state Board of Education meetings about this (including referencing cuts to other subjects that other districts have already started to implement), not in reference to MCPS teachers specifically.

But whatever. I hope you are really proud of your efforts to convince everyone there is nothing to worry about and so they shouldn't get involved in any advocacy on this in any way. Why are you so invested in this? If you are right, it doesn't really matter much either way whether people believe things one way or the other. But if you are wrong, middle schoolers are going to end up much worse off, and you will have contributed to that happening by repeatedly telling people that advocacy and opposition are unnecessary.

So unless you have specific inside information to indicate that MSDE definitely does not mean that math courses have to be 300 minutes per week-- and no, your interpretation of how the policy is written doesn't count, because most people are interpreting it the opposite way-- maybe step back and sit this out, rather than let your own personal need to argue that your reading of some words is correct get in the way of people organizing to try to protect a well-rounded middle school experience for our kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So pretty much every (MS) teacher has an advisory period-team leads/content specialists do not. So...why can't all the math teachers have large homerooms, use advisory time, and the other non-math teachers will be assigned a math teacher to assist with small groups, interventions,etc. Same amount of work for everyone, same periods, etc. This could take place in the gyms, media center, cafeteria, etc. to facilitate such large groups.

Because the language has a time requirement “for all math courses”, not advisory, not small group remediation. They could just get more teachers to add a math endorsement so an entire grade or even the school has math at the same time for 60 minutes and the rest of the day can have 45 minute periods.

The language says "60 cumulative minutes" which clearly implies that the instruction can happen at multiple times throughout a student's day.

We're having an important discussion here. Maybe don't comment about things you don't actually know about.

MCPS staff (who are in a position to hear verbally from MSDE what they mean) certainly believe they are expected to have specific math classes (one group of kids taking i.e. "Math 6" or "Algebra 1" or whatever) scheduled for 300 minutes per week. As do all of the social studies, science, and arts teachers who have been lobbying MSDE to try to change this.

Yes, it can happen in multiple times through the day (i.e. non-consecutive double periods) but it is still supposed to be the same kids in a continuation of the same course.

Who are you? I'm a math CS. The language is vague at best. Teachers speaking out are being proactive bc we never know what bs MCPS will pull. However, no one really knows whats going on right now, so you should also not post on behalf of ALL MCPS staff.

When I said "MCPS staff" I meant the central office staff who are working with MSDE directly on this, not teachers who would be hearing it second or third-hand.

You also specifically referred to social studies, science and art teachers.

So to be clear, you are a central office staff member or are friends/family of one who has interpreted unofficial verbal guidance from MSDE to mean that every middle school student must receive 300 minutes of math instruction per week all with the same group of kids. And earlier in this thread you insisted it had to be 60 minutes DAILY which is in direct contradiction with the written policy.

Sounds to me like MCPS central office is developing its own policy and as with elementary math, is pretending it is determined entirely by MSDE.

There are multiple people replying to you on this, FYI. I am the one who referred to social studies, science, and art teachers, but that was in reference to the ones from the subject-specific state associations who have testified at the state Board of Education meetings about this (including referencing cuts to other subjects that other districts have already started to implement), not in reference to MCPS teachers specifically.

But whatever. I hope you are really proud of your efforts to convince everyone there is nothing to worry about and so they shouldn't get involved in any advocacy on this in any way. Why are you so invested in this? If you are right, it doesn't really matter much either way whether people believe things one way or the other. But if you are wrong, middle schoolers are going to end up much worse off, and you will have contributed to that happening by repeatedly telling people that advocacy and opposition are unnecessary.

So unless you have specific inside information to indicate that MSDE definitely does not mean that math courses have to be 300 minutes per week-- and no, your interpretation of how the policy is written doesn't count, because most people are interpreting it the opposite way-- maybe step back and sit this out, rather than let your own personal need to argue that your reading of some words is correct get in the way of people organizing to try to protect a well-rounded middle school experience for our kids?

Sounds like you are the one with an agenda. All I am doing is trying to understand what the MSDE policy actually says, which seems to contradict what some other people are posting on here and then refusing to link to any documents that even remotely indicate what they say.

[Anonymous]

By the way, if msde is pushing guidance that is more restrictive than the policy passed by the state BOE, that would be a great basis for advocacy