borderline HS grade-talk to the teacher?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel you OP. My kid is just 1 point away in two different classes to a higher semester grade and without that he falls below the line for the college he’s hoping to go to. Both teachers have said no to redoing past assignments or additional assignments. And these are teachers he really loves. I respect the need to be stricter but all other teachers are opening assignments left and right for kids to get grades up. There also should be more nuance to grades vs. 79 is C and 80 is B.

We should do away with letter grades altogether. Most countries just have numerical scores, some out of 20 (France), some out of 100 (East Asian nations).

I would support that, but as an interim step MCPS should certainly add plus/minus to the current grading system.

Then you'll have more people grade-grubbing to get above the next cutoff.

The solution is for gatekeepers to not take grades so seriously, and use relevant measures of readiness instead.

100%. Your kid graduating with a 3.7 GPA is not the end of the world. It's ok to have a few Bs or, god forbid C's, on their transcript.

I don't disagree, but when an 89 is a B and a 90 is an A, it feels inherently unfair. That's a 1 point difference. If it were B+ and A- it would be more reflective of the work. Better still would be to just list the percentage.

Plus or minus would be useful, but no, it is not "1 point difference," it is a percentage point difference. There has to be a cut-off, and if your child doesn't want to be near the cut-off, they need to apply extra effort throughout the semester. If they are putting in 100% effort and still getting a B, the B is an accurate indicator.

Tell it to my kid who got an 89.4 one quarter from a teacher who did not give the required 9 all task assignments, did not offer a single retake, and who had one grade that was from a group project where you couldn’t pick your group and my kid was stuck essentially doing most of the project and got marked down because his group mates didn’t do anything. And it was the specific marking period being looked at for magnet admission so the B kept him out of the opportunity. I would not say it was an accurate indicator of his work, mastery, or understanding, and I would say it had much bigger implications than it should have.

So now you want to argue about middle school grades? Re-takes are not a normal part of school. Group projects are. Your child's own grades on his assignments were not strong enough to put him squarely in the zone for an A. Your child's chances of being accepted to the magnet were minuscule to begin with, even if all As. Sorry, but the teacher is hired to say whether your child's grade reflects his "work, mastery and understanding", not you. He or she is the one who can compare your child's work to all those around him. And trust me, teachers understand about social loafing and group work. I would say that it is an extremely rare teacher who doesn't grade accordingly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel you OP. My kid is just 1 point away in two different classes to a higher semester grade and without that he falls below the line for the college he’s hoping to go to. Both teachers have said no to redoing past assignments or additional assignments. And these are teachers he really loves. I respect the need to be stricter but all other teachers are opening assignments left and right for kids to get grades up. There also should be more nuance to grades vs. 79 is C and 80 is B.

We should do away with letter grades altogether. Most countries just have numerical scores, some out of 20 (France), some out of 100 (East Asian nations).

I would support that, but as an interim step MCPS should certainly add plus/minus to the current grading system.

Then you'll have more people grade-grubbing to get above the next cutoff.

The solution is for gatekeepers to not take grades so seriously, and use relevant measures of readiness instead.

100%. Your kid graduating with a 3.7 GPA is not the end of the world. It's ok to have a few Bs or, god forbid C's, on their transcript.

I don't disagree, but when an 89 is a B and a 90 is an A, it feels inherently unfair. That's a 1 point difference. If it were B+ and A- it would be more reflective of the work. Better still would be to just list the percentage.

Plus or minus would be useful, but no, it is not "1 point difference," it is a percentage point difference. There has to be a cut-off, and if your child doesn't want to be near the cut-off, they need to apply extra effort throughout the semester. If they are putting in 100% effort and still getting a B, the B is an accurate indicator.

Tell it to my kid who got an 89.4 one quarter from a teacher who did not give the required 9 all task assignments, did not offer a single retake, and who had one grade that was from a group project where you couldn’t pick your group and my kid was stuck essentially doing most of the project and got marked down because his group mates didn’t do anything. And it was the specific marking period being looked at for magnet admission so the B kept him out of the opportunity. I would not say it was an accurate indicator of his work, mastery, or understanding, and I would say it had much bigger implications than it should have.

This is the problem with not using percentages. Even for the most diligent students there is always the chance that they end up working with students who don't pull their own weight but pull everyone else down. You can say this is a good life lesson, but high school grades can literally make the difference between getting into a specific school that a child has worked towards all of high school. The snarky people on this board don't seem to grasp the long-term ramifications of this type of grade issue. Like it or not, where you go to college, in some fields, can literally change the trajectory of someone's career.

As a teacher, where your kid ends up going to college is not something I even remotely care about. I will do my job and I will teach and grade the curriculum fairly and if you fall short I don’t lose even a second of sleep over it.

Of course you won't. I'm talking about a kid who does 90% of the project and gets downgraded because the other kids in the group don't do their part. They can't control their group mates if they are just plain lazy or don't care. They can only control their work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel you OP. My kid is just 1 point away in two different classes to a higher semester grade and without that he falls below the line for the college he’s hoping to go to. Both teachers have said no to redoing past assignments or additional assignments. And these are teachers he really loves. I respect the need to be stricter but all other teachers are opening assignments left and right for kids to get grades up. There also should be more nuance to grades vs. 79 is C and 80 is B.

We should do away with letter grades altogether. Most countries just have numerical scores, some out of 20 (France), some out of 100 (East Asian nations).

I would support that, but as an interim step MCPS should certainly add plus/minus to the current grading system.

Then you'll have more people grade-grubbing to get above the next cutoff.

The solution is for gatekeepers to not take grades so seriously, and use relevant measures of readiness instead.

100%. Your kid graduating with a 3.7 GPA is not the end of the world. It's ok to have a few Bs or, god forbid C's, on their transcript.

I don't disagree, but when an 89 is a B and a 90 is an A, it feels inherently unfair. That's a 1 point difference. If it were B+ and A- it would be more reflective of the work. Better still would be to just list the percentage.

Plus or minus would be useful, but no, it is not "1 point difference," it is a percentage point difference. There has to be a cut-off, and if your child doesn't want to be near the cut-off, they need to apply extra effort throughout the semester. If they are putting in 100% effort and still getting a B, the B is an accurate indicator.

Tell it to my kid who got an 89.4 one quarter from a teacher who did not give the required 9 all task assignments, did not offer a single retake, and who had one grade that was from a group project where you couldn’t pick your group and my kid was stuck essentially doing most of the project and got marked down because his group mates didn’t do anything. And it was the specific marking period being looked at for magnet admission so the B kept him out of the opportunity. I would not say it was an accurate indicator of his work, mastery, or understanding, and I would say it had much bigger implications than it should have.

This is the problem with not using percentages. Even for the most diligent students there is always the chance that they end up working with students who don't pull their own weight but pull everyone else down. You can say this is a good life lesson, but high school grades can literally make the difference between getting into a specific school that a child has worked towards all of high school. The snarky people on this board don't seem to grasp the long-term ramifications of this type of grade issue. Like it or not, where you go to college, in some fields, can literally change the trajectory of someone's career.

As a teacher, where your kid ends up going to college is not something I even remotely care about. I will do my job and I will teach and grade the curriculum fairly and if you fall short I don’t lose even a second of sleep over it.

Of course you won't. I'm talking about a kid who does 90% of the project and gets downgraded because the other kids in the group don't do their part. They can't control their group mates if they are just plain lazy or don't care. They can only control their work.

+1. It is never appropriate to grade this way. We had a band teacher who did this. All the saxophones had to play a section of a song for a playing test. My kid played it perfectly but half the other kids made a variety of mistakes. You all get the same group grade. There is literally nothing my kid could’ve done to prepare better for this or perform better on the playing test. He helped the other kids practice. They played more quietly. I’m sure they felt as demoralized by it just as my kid did. All it taught him was that some teachers suck.

[Anonymous]

My kid said that there's a lot more begging for grades this year compared to prior years. Because without the B+A=A, so many kids are on the borderline. Now, kids with a 91 are begging for a 92 to bring their semester grade up to an A.

[Anonymous]

Retaliation happens in education when parents, students, and teachers need to blame those pesky teachers who don't want to cook the books. Many times they are fired for being difficult.

[Anonymous]

1/100 of a point is the difference between a semester A and a semester B for my kid. That’s literally like 1 point on a homework assignment. Augh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel you OP. My kid is just 1 point away in two different classes to a higher semester grade and without that he falls below the line for the college he’s hoping to go to. Both teachers have said no to redoing past assignments or additional assignments. And these are teachers he really loves. I respect the need to be stricter but all other teachers are opening assignments left and right for kids to get grades up. There also should be more nuance to grades vs. 79 is C and 80 is B.

We should do away with letter grades altogether. Most countries just have numerical scores, some out of 20 (France), some out of 100 (East Asian nations).

I would support that, but as an interim step MCPS should certainly add plus/minus to the current grading system.

Then you'll have more people grade-grubbing to get above the next cutoff.

The solution is for gatekeepers to not take grades so seriously, and use relevant measures of readiness instead.

100%. Your kid graduating with a 3.7 GPA is not the end of the world. It's ok to have a few Bs or, god forbid C's, on their transcript.

I don't disagree, but when an 89 is a B and a 90 is an A, it feels inherently unfair. That's a 1 point difference. If it were B+ and A- it would be more reflective of the work. Better still would be to just list the percentage.

Plus or minus would be useful, but no, it is not "1 point difference," it is a percentage point difference. There has to be a cut-off, and if your child doesn't want to be near the cut-off, they need to apply extra effort throughout the semester. If they are putting in 100% effort and still getting a B, the B is an accurate indicator.

Tell it to my kid who got an 89.4 one quarter from a teacher who did not give the required 9 all task assignments, did not offer a single retake, and who had one grade that was from a group project where you couldn’t pick your group and my kid was stuck essentially doing most of the project and got marked down because his group mates didn’t do anything. And it was the specific marking period being looked at for magnet admission so the B kept him out of the opportunity. I would not say it was an accurate indicator of his work, mastery, or understanding, and I would say it had much bigger implications than it should have.

This is the problem with not using percentages. Even for the most diligent students there is always the chance that they end up working with students who don't pull their own weight but pull everyone else down. You can say this is a good life lesson, but high school grades can literally make the difference between getting into a specific school that a child has worked towards all of high school. The snarky people on this board don't seem to grasp the long-term ramifications of this type of grade issue. Like it or not, where you go to college, in some fields, can literally change the trajectory of someone's career.

As a teacher, where your kid ends up going to college is not something I even remotely care about. I will do my job and I will teach and grade the curriculum fairly and if you fall short I don’t lose even a second of sleep over it.

Of course you won't. I'm talking about a kid who does 90% of the project and gets downgraded because the other kids in the group don't do their part. They can't control their group mates if they are just plain lazy or don't care. They can only control their work.

+1. It is never appropriate to grade this way. We had a band teacher who did this. All the saxophones had to play a section of a song for a playing test. My kid played it perfectly but half the other kids made a variety of mistakes. You all get the same group grade. There is literally nothing my kid could’ve done to prepare better for this or perform better on the playing test. He helped the other kids practice. They played more quietly. I’m sure they felt as demoralized by it just as my kid did. All it taught him was that some teachers suck.

And you were sitting there listening to each person play. Sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel you OP. My kid is just 1 point away in two different classes to a higher semester grade and without that he falls below the line for the college he’s hoping to go to. Both teachers have said no to redoing past assignments or additional assignments. And these are teachers he really loves. I respect the need to be stricter but all other teachers are opening assignments left and right for kids to get grades up. There also should be more nuance to grades vs. 79 is C and 80 is B.

We should do away with letter grades altogether. Most countries just have numerical scores, some out of 20 (France), some out of 100 (East Asian nations).

I would support that, but as an interim step MCPS should certainly add plus/minus to the current grading system.

Then you'll have more people grade-grubbing to get above the next cutoff.

The solution is for gatekeepers to not take grades so seriously, and use relevant measures of readiness instead.

100%. Your kid graduating with a 3.7 GPA is not the end of the world. It's ok to have a few Bs or, god forbid C's, on their transcript.

I don't disagree, but when an 89 is a B and a 90 is an A, it feels inherently unfair. That's a 1 point difference. If it were B+ and A- it would be more reflective of the work. Better still would be to just list the percentage.

Plus or minus would be useful, but no, it is not "1 point difference," it is a percentage point difference. There has to be a cut-off, and if your child doesn't want to be near the cut-off, they need to apply extra effort throughout the semester. If they are putting in 100% effort and still getting a B, the B is an accurate indicator.

Tell it to my kid who got an 89.4 one quarter from a teacher who did not give the required 9 all task assignments, did not offer a single retake, and who had one grade that was from a group project where you couldn’t pick your group and my kid was stuck essentially doing most of the project and got marked down because his group mates didn’t do anything. And it was the specific marking period being looked at for magnet admission so the B kept him out of the opportunity. I would not say it was an accurate indicator of his work, mastery, or understanding, and I would say it had much bigger implications than it should have.

This is the problem with not using percentages. Even for the most diligent students there is always the chance that they end up working with students who don't pull their own weight but pull everyone else down. You can say this is a good life lesson, but high school grades can literally make the difference between getting into a specific school that a child has worked towards all of high school. The snarky people on this board don't seem to grasp the long-term ramifications of this type of grade issue. Like it or not, where you go to college, in some fields, can literally change the trajectory of someone's career.

As a teacher, where your kid ends up going to college is not something I even remotely care about. I will do my job and I will teach and grade the curriculum fairly and if you fall short I don’t lose even a second of sleep over it.

Of course you won't. I'm talking about a kid who does 90% of the project and gets downgraded because the other kids in the group don't do their part. They can't control their group mates if they are just plain lazy or don't care. They can only control their work.

Wow. That's actually crazy. My kid is in the other room working on college applications and 'brag sheets' for the teachers writing her recs. And in talking with her and seeing the correspondents with teachers, it's clear that several of her teachers care a lot about her and want to help her successfully apply to college. I'm not saying you should fudge grades, but the fact that you say flat out that you couldn't care less is really stunning.

[Anonymous]

I am surprised by the last teacher who says they didn't care about the college the student ended up at. That's a terrible attitude for someone who clearly holds authority over a child's transcript and implications of that to admissions. Look, most parents understand that it's up to the kid to do their best and grades reflect this. However, especially with courses were group projects are involved, teachers should do their part to recognize the ones putting in the time and effort and those that don't. There are so many ways a serious teacher can figure this out so as to be fair to all nvolved

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am surprised by the last teacher who says they didn't care about the college the student ended up at. That's a terrible attitude for someone who clearly holds authority over a child's transcript and implications of that to admissions. Look, most parents understand that it's up to the kid to do their best and grades reflect this. However, especially with courses were group projects are involved, teachers should do their part to recognize the ones putting in the time and effort and those that don't. There are so many ways a serious teacher can figure this out so as to be fair to all nvolved

DP. Why are you assuming the worst of that teacher? She posted that she will do her best to teach and grade fairly. Frankly, that’s all she can do. She shouldn’t be grading any Ivy-bound student any differently than others, so why does it matter where the student wants to go?

I don’t know why you and others are mixing this up with group work. That teacher said nothing about group work, other than she will do her best to be fair. What else could you possibly ask for?

(As it is, I don’t grade group work. Even if students work together, they get individual grades. Many of us work this way since it’s the best way to record authentic grades.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1/100 of a point is the difference between a semester A and a semester B for my kid. That’s literally like 1 point on a homework assignment. Augh.

My kid has been on the winning and losing side of the MCPS grading system having gotten his share of 89s and 90s, but I still think the system MCPS is bad having grown up in a New York school district where we had +/- grades so it was less drastic to have that 89.4 in your gradebook.