College applications -- apply to $$$$ schools or not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have the money to send both kids to full private. Inlcuding ivy if they get in. They certainly don’t need to be chasing merit but it sounds like you’re going to ask them to? Or go public? Maybe you should step back and think about your priorities. What do you want to do with your money? Invest in your kids? Set up the next generation? You aren’t going to run out of money. Even though it sounds like you’re worried about that. If the market tanks 30%, you’re not going to need access to all of it in the next 24 months - so you’re going to do what you did in the dot com crash and 2008 - wait it out until it comes back.

They only have $150K saved for college per kid. That's in-state pricing, not sending both kids to $90K+ schools.

IMO, we would explain the finances to the kids, discuss their plans (might they want/need graduate/professional school?) and determine the right path. But whatever you do, unless you are 100% committed to 90K+ per year, make certain your kid knows that, so they can have 75-80% schools that are targets and safeties that will be around in-state pricing (or just a bit more). DOn't let your kid think they can attend Harvard if they get in if you are not really willing to pay for that. Also if that's the case, don't let them apply to 80%+ schools that are 90K/year.

This is OP. We have $300k in college savings accounts. I clearly identified all the other sources of funds we have which is in the millions. We also have one more year for one kid and four more years for the other. There’s no doubt that a family with $4.25 million in net worth can afford this. It’s silly to pretend otherwise. As I’ve said our investments increase by more than $100k pretty much every year. We could pay in full and so see our net worth continue to increase.

To be honest, I was expecting some more insightful replies than this. What I’m struggling with — and I thought I’d made clear in my OP — is whether it makes sense to spend that much money on an Ivy League education.

Uh, rude. Go ask AI then. It will stroke your ego as it responds.

[Anonymous]

Value.

I have two kids going to private college (1 at a SLAC ranked in the 30s and 1 will be going to a top 10). In both schools, their class sizes and ability to get the classes they need mattered a whole lot to both students.

The student going to the SLAC ranked in the 30s also got into two top 30 ranked state universities. We are in DC so no good state schools in state and the highly ranked state schools were a wash on cost for us. She also could have gone to lesser ranked state schools for half the price of what we are paying. We let her choose where to go to school.

The value of a name brand on a students resume is real when trying to get a job or applying to grad school.

The value of small classes and other niceties that come with a private school are also real.

This is a personal choice, I valued my kids getting a good education and being in a supportive environment. There are definitely schools I would not have paid 90K/year for.

You are also going to learn that admissions is more complicated than you realize and your kid may not do as well as you presume. It is a hard lesson for us parents.

We are similarly situated financially to your family. This is a personal choice. What opportunities do you want for your kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Value.

I have two kids going to private college (1 at a SLAC ranked in the 30s and 1 will be going to a top 10). In both schools, their class sizes and ability to get the classes they need mattered a whole lot to both students.

The student going to the SLAC ranked in the 30s also got into two top 30 ranked state universities. We are in DC so no good state schools in state and the highly ranked state schools were a wash on cost for us. She also could have gone to lesser ranked state schools for half the price of what we are paying. We let her choose where to go to school.

The value of a name brand on a students resume is real when trying to get a job or applying to grad school.

The value of small classes and other niceties that come with a private school are also real.

This is a personal choice, I valued my kids getting a good education and being in a supportive environment. There are definitely schools I would not have paid 90K/year for.

You are also going to learn that admissions is more complicated than you realize and your kid may not do as well as you presume. It is a hard lesson for us parents.

We are similarly situated financially to your family. This is a personal choice. What opportunities do you want for your kids?

There are so many different routes to success and top of the pile outcomes and the Ivy degree is just one among many. I have double Ivy degrees but in my F500 workplace I'm the outlier. Most of my peers (SVPs, EVPs, Group Heads etc) went to flagship states, and some from even more minor schools. Success in professional life isn't just working hard, it's based on workplace smarts, hustle, grinding, networking, high emotional aptitude.

I find questions around "value" when it comes to the Ivy league or other top colleges much murkier than many want to admit. I'll say that Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Stanford are in a league unto themselves, especially the first three. Brown, Penn outside Wharton, Dartmouth, Duke, etc, not so much if the goal is to land in a solid upper middle class lifestyle as you'll still get there from UVA or College Park. The much vaunted "connections" to very specific financial and consulting gigs is a narrow route and only a small % of elite Ivy grads ever pursue it.

If OP's son is hungry for a certain kind of prestige outcome and has the aptitude, drive and smarts to hustle for it once on the Ivy campus, and knows exactly how to take advantage of the specific sets of networking available, then maybe it could be worthwhile to commit to a prestigious Ivy degree over a cheaper flagship or midrange college with merit. But if he's just a kid who wants to study something and not sure of what he wants to do afterwards and has a good chance of just drifing through for four years before falling into some master's program, then the value of the college degree is markedly less. Other than a good education, but you can get that at many schools.

[Anonymous]

Group 1, Hustle + Ivy/elite name = most advantage
Group 2, Hustle + state college/mid-tier = still advantaged
Group 3, No/low hustle + Ivy/elite name = advantage
Group 4, State school/mid-tier/no hustle = less advantage
Group 5, very little name recognition or name recognition is not positive/no hustle = worst position

My oldest sibling and I are G2, my middle sib and husband are G3 or maybe G2.5 (medium hustle for my husband). In the end, we're all fine. Oldest sibling and I could have been in G1, but we saved a ton of $ (which enabled the G3 sibling to go to an elite name school, ha!) and are debt free. Long term, G3 is a SAHP and the other sibling and I are pretty well established in our careers/fields. SAHP has some perks too though.

G2.5/3 husband is doing fine as a fed, he could have the same job probably even if he were G3.5 and (medium hustle), low name recognition. He's a great husband (does all of the cooking) and dad to a G2 partner.

Makes sense to avoid G5.

[Anonymous]

I would pay for it for my kids but I think they would take advantage, enjoy it more and have a leg up in early jobs because of going to an Ivy+. I would not pay if, for example, they wanted to be a teacher or a doctor because with those jobs where you go undergrad does not really matter so I would instead save the money and give it to them later.

[Anonymous]

If I were you OP, I would look at inexpensive public universities or schools that offer merit. You don't have enough saved to afford an Ivy and your kid will be taking on incredible debt assuming you don't qualify for aid. If your kid applies and gets into one of those elite schools, it will be even worse to have to turn it down. Focus on schools you can realistically pull off financially. Depending on what your kid wants to do, he might have to go to graduate school...even more expense.

I say this as someone who paid full freight to two very expensive private universities, but we had all that money saved for each kid in the 529 on top of our $13M net worth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have the money to send both kids to full private. Inlcuding ivy if they get in. They certainly don’t need to be chasing merit but it sounds like you’re going to ask them to? Or go public? Maybe you should step back and think about your priorities. What do you want to do with your money? Invest in your kids? Set up the next generation? You aren’t going to run out of money. Even though it sounds like you’re worried about that. If the market tanks 30%, you’re not going to need access to all of it in the next 24 months - so you’re going to do what you did in the dot com crash and 2008 - wait it out until it comes back.

They only have $150K saved for college per kid. That's in-state pricing, not sending both kids to $90K+ schools.

IMO, we would explain the finances to the kids, discuss their plans (might they want/need graduate/professional school?) and determine the right path. But whatever you do, unless you are 100% committed to 90K+ per year, make certain your kid knows that, so they can have 75-80% schools that are targets and safeties that will be around in-state pricing (or just a bit more). DOn't let your kid think they can attend Harvard if they get in if you are not really willing to pay for that. Also if that's the case, don't let them apply to 80%+ schools that are 90K/year.

This is OP. We have $300k in college savings accounts. I clearly identified all the other sources of funds we have which is in the millions. We also have one more year for one kid and four more years for the other. There’s no doubt that a family with $4.25 million in net worth can afford this. It’s silly to pretend otherwise. As I’ve said our investments increase by more than $100k pretty much every year. We could pay in full and so see our net worth continue to increase.

To be honest, I was expecting some more insightful replies than this. What I’m struggling with — and I thought I’d made clear in my OP — is whether it makes sense to spend that much money on an Ivy League education.

We have a slightly higher NW, income and college savings. Also have 2 kids. We can cover about $50k per kid from the 529s, so we gave DD a budget of $60k COA. I left it to her whether she wanted to apply to schools above that which don’t offer merit. She didn’t have the stats for T20, so we weren’t looking at Ivies.

She ended up choosing a T50 school with a COA about $10k above budget. We are going to have her take out the max federal loans, so there is a sense of ownership in the decision to go to the more expensive school (she got into several that would have been $40-50k). We may end up helping with those loans, but we will see how things go.

I struggle with whether it’s “worth it,” but I also know we are on solid financial footing. I realized that I would possibly regret not letting her go to the more expensive school, which really is a great match and she is very excited about. Plus, what else are we going to do with the money? We already have enough in savings and are happy with our lifestyle. I think if it were a T20 and $90k, and was a great fit for her, I’d still be willing to pay the costs. Not because it’s necessarily worth it, but because I’ve worked and saved to give my kids opportunities, and education is one of them. However, if there were any question about the security of our retirement, or even a clear lifestyle expenditure I thought was more valuable, I might feel differently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Group 1, Hustle + Ivy/elite name = most advantage
Group 2, Hustle + state college/mid-tier = still advantaged
Group 3, No/low hustle + Ivy/elite name = advantage
Group 4, State school/mid-tier/no hustle = less advantage
Group 5, very little name recognition or name recognition is not positive/no hustle = worst position

My oldest sibling and I are G2, my middle sib and husband are G3 or maybe G2.5 (medium hustle for my husband). In the end, we're all fine. Oldest sibling and I could have been in G1, but we saved a ton of $ (which enabled the G3 sibling to go to an elite name school, ha!) and are debt free. Long term, G3 is a SAHP and the other sibling and I are pretty well established in our careers/fields. SAHP has some perks too though.

G2.5/3 husband is doing fine as a fed, he could have the same job probably even if he were G3.5 and (medium hustle), low name recognition. He's a great husband (does all of the cooking) and dad to a G2 partner.

Makes sense to avoid G5.

Wait, your only sibling who wasted money on an elite education with no hustle is also now not working? Hmm, I’m shocked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have the money to send both kids to full private. Inlcuding ivy if they get in. They certainly don’t need to be chasing merit but it sounds like you’re going to ask them to? Or go public? Maybe you should step back and think about your priorities. What do you want to do with your money? Invest in your kids? Set up the next generation? You aren’t going to run out of money. Even though it sounds like you’re worried about that. If the market tanks 30%, you’re not going to need access to all of it in the next 24 months - so you’re going to do what you did in the dot com crash and 2008 - wait it out until it comes back.

They only have $150K saved for college per kid. That's in-state pricing, not sending both kids to $90K+ schools.

IMO, we would explain the finances to the kids, discuss their plans (might they want/need graduate/professional school?) and determine the right path. But whatever you do, unless you are 100% committed to 90K+ per year, make certain your kid knows that, so they can have 75-80% schools that are targets and safeties that will be around in-state pricing (or just a bit more). DOn't let your kid think they can attend Harvard if they get in if you are not really willing to pay for that. Also if that's the case, don't let them apply to 80%+ schools that are 90K/year.

This is OP. We have $300k in college savings accounts. I clearly identified all the other sources of funds we have which is in the millions. We also have one more year for one kid and four more years for the other. There’s no doubt that a family with $4.25 million in net worth can afford this. It’s silly to pretend otherwise. As I’ve said our investments increase by more than $100k pretty much every year. We could pay in full and so see our net worth continue to increase.

To be honest, I was expecting some more insightful replies than this. What I’m struggling with — and I thought I’d made clear in my OP — is whether it makes sense to spend that much money on an Ivy League education.

You have $4.25 in net worth, but most of it is tied up in retirement accounts. When we calculate our net worth, we always deduct the amount that we will likely pay out in taxes for those retirement funds at a rate of 40% to be conservative. Your income isn't really high enough to make this a no brainer decision. As you stated, if there were a drop in the market, you don't have much wiggle room if you spend that much on college. Of course you can choose to take that risk, and it may be worth it, but don't proceed thinking that you are set. You should try running numbers based on your current financial situation and when you plan to retire to see if you can maintain your lifestyle if you put that amount of money out for college. You may be fine, but it is hard to give advice without knowing your plans and how much longer you plan to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have the money to send both kids to full private. Inlcuding ivy if they get in. They certainly don’t need to be chasing merit but it sounds like you’re going to ask them to? Or go public? Maybe you should step back and think about your priorities. What do you want to do with your money? Invest in your kids? Set up the next generation? You aren’t going to run out of money. Even though it sounds like you’re worried about that. If the market tanks 30%, you’re not going to need access to all of it in the next 24 months - so you’re going to do what you did in the dot com crash and 2008 - wait it out until it comes back.

They only have $150K saved for college per kid. That's in-state pricing, not sending both kids to $90K+ schools.

IMO, we would explain the finances to the kids, discuss their plans (might they want/need graduate/professional school?) and determine the right path. But whatever you do, unless you are 100% committed to 90K+ per year, make certain your kid knows that, so they can have 75-80% schools that are targets and safeties that will be around in-state pricing (or just a bit more). DOn't let your kid think they can attend Harvard if they get in if you are not really willing to pay for that. Also if that's the case, don't let them apply to 80%+ schools that are 90K/year.

This is OP. We have $300k in college savings accounts. I clearly identified all the other sources of funds we have which is in the millions. We also have one more year for one kid and four more years for the other. There’s no doubt that a family with $4.25 million in net worth can afford this. It’s silly to pretend otherwise. As I’ve said our investments increase by more than $100k pretty much every year. We could pay in full and so see our net worth continue to increase.

To be honest, I was expecting some more insightful replies than this. What I’m struggling with — and I thought I’d made clear in my OP — is whether it makes sense to spend that much money on an Ivy League education.

Uh, rude. Go ask AI then. It will stroke your ego as it responds.

We decided to spend on it on second after having first DS attend flagship. It came down to major. For certain majors, nursing, teaching, architecture, engineering, premed, go to flagship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have the money to send both kids to full private. Inlcuding ivy if they get in. They certainly don’t need to be chasing merit but it sounds like you’re going to ask them to? Or go public? Maybe you should step back and think about your priorities. What do you want to do with your money? Invest in your kids? Set up the next generation? You aren’t going to run out of money. Even though it sounds like you’re worried about that. If the market tanks 30%, you’re not going to need access to all of it in the next 24 months - so you’re going to do what you did in the dot com crash and 2008 - wait it out until it comes back.

They only have $150K saved for college per kid. That's in-state pricing, not sending both kids to $90K+ schools.

IMO, we would explain the finances to the kids, discuss their plans (might they want/need graduate/professional school?) and determine the right path. But whatever you do, unless you are 100% committed to 90K+ per year, make certain your kid knows that, so they can have 75-80% schools that are targets and safeties that will be around in-state pricing (or just a bit more). DOn't let your kid think they can attend Harvard if they get in if you are not really willing to pay for that. Also if that's the case, don't let them apply to 80%+ schools that are 90K/year.

This is OP. We have $300k in college savings accounts. I clearly identified all the other sources of funds we have which is in the millions. We also have one more year for one kid and four more years for the other. There’s no doubt that a family with $4.25 million in net worth can afford this. It’s silly to pretend otherwise. As I’ve said our investments increase by more than $100k pretty much every year. We could pay in full and so see our net worth continue to increase.

To be honest, I was expecting some more insightful replies than this. What I’m struggling with — and I thought I’d made clear in my OP — is whether it makes sense to spend that much money on an Ivy League education.

Uh, rude. Go ask AI then. It will stroke your ego as it responds.

Yes OP seems to want to only want to hear, "Hey! You have nothing to worry about!! You are so rich and lucky!! Spend the $$ on the pricey college!!" Because the truth is, OP has already decided and came here to get justification.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have the money to send both kids to full private. Inlcuding ivy if they get in. They certainly don’t need to be chasing merit but it sounds like you’re going to ask them to? Or go public? Maybe you should step back and think about your priorities. What do you want to do with your money? Invest in your kids? Set up the next generation? You aren’t going to run out of money. Even though it sounds like you’re worried about that. If the market tanks 30%, you’re not going to need access to all of it in the next 24 months - so you’re going to do what you did in the dot com crash and 2008 - wait it out until it comes back.

They only have $150K saved for college per kid. That's in-state pricing, not sending both kids to $90K+ schools.

IMO, we would explain the finances to the kids, discuss their plans (might they want/need graduate/professional school?) and determine the right path. But whatever you do, unless you are 100% committed to 90K+ per year, make certain your kid knows that, so they can have 75-80% schools that are targets and safeties that will be around in-state pricing (or just a bit more). DOn't let your kid think they can attend Harvard if they get in if you are not really willing to pay for that. Also if that's the case, don't let them apply to 80%+ schools that are 90K/year.

This is OP. We have $300k in college savings accounts. I clearly identified all the other sources of funds we have which is in the millions. We also have one more year for one kid and four more years for the other. There’s no doubt that a family with $4.25 million in net worth can afford this. It’s silly to pretend otherwise. As I’ve said our investments increase by more than $100k pretty much every year. We could pay in full and so see our net worth continue to increase.

To be honest, I was expecting some more insightful replies than this. What I’m struggling with — and I thought I’d made clear in my OP — is whether it makes sense to spend that much money on an Ivy League education.

Uh, rude. Go ask AI then. It will stroke your ego as it responds.

Yes OP seems to want to only want to hear, "Hey! You have nothing to worry about!! You are so rich and lucky!! Spend the $$ on the pricey college!!" Because the truth is, OP has already decided and came here to get justification.

I think OP wants to hear that it’s not worth it to alleviate any guilt when they says no to their kid.

What I think is that they have no idea what it takes to get into an Ivy. If their student is actually competitive and unique enough to get in on his own (am assuming no curated by a private college counselor vibe) then they should absolutely pay because that is one amazing kid.

I think the harder question is full pay top 25 private schools. Their student may get into one of those and it is likely a superior educational experience over a state flagship. What to do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work at a highly selective graduate program (think med school, bschool, or law school) and I can tell you that it absolutely matters where your kid goes to undergrad. We look at an applicant who attended a highly selectively university differently than we do someone who did not. Obviously it is not the only metric we pay attention, to but all things being equal, we look at a kid who went to Stanford differently than a kid who attended Chico state school. This is also very true when we are hiring faculty. So if you can afford it , send your kid to the best school that they get into.

I’m the PP above you and I too worked at a T10 grad school in admissions. While it’s true that we discounted Hollywood upstairs colleges, we did not discriminate against kids who went to state flagships. We were more than happy with high stats kids from Michigan, Virginia, Maryland, Cal, UNC, Wisconsin and so on.

Sounds about right. The first PP is batshit crazy.

Exactly! If anything the elite Professional schools are looking for top kids who didn't attend elite undergrads. There are just a lot less of them applying, because if you went to a non-Top 50 school, there is a good change a top student went there for financial reasons, and those financial reasons still exist for professional school. So those kids are not applying to a T10 Medical school, they are applying to a state school or one that will give them $$$. Their goal is to become a doctor (or lawyer or whatever) for the lowest cost possible at a good school. They don't have $300K for grad school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have the money to send both kids to full private. Inlcuding ivy if they get in. They certainly don’t need to be chasing merit but it sounds like you’re going to ask them to? Or go public? Maybe you should step back and think about your priorities. What do you want to do with your money? Invest in your kids? Set up the next generation? You aren’t going to run out of money. Even though it sounds like you’re worried about that. If the market tanks 30%, you’re not going to need access to all of it in the next 24 months - so you’re going to do what you did in the dot com crash and 2008 - wait it out until it comes back.

They only have $150K saved for college per kid. That's in-state pricing, not sending both kids to $90K+ schools.

IMO, we would explain the finances to the kids, discuss their plans (might they want/need graduate/professional school?) and determine the right path. But whatever you do, unless you are 100% committed to 90K+ per year, make certain your kid knows that, so they can have 75-80% schools that are targets and safeties that will be around in-state pricing (or just a bit more). DOn't let your kid think they can attend Harvard if they get in if you are not really willing to pay for that. Also if that's the case, don't let them apply to 80%+ schools that are 90K/year.

This is OP. We have $300k in college savings accounts. I clearly identified all the other sources of funds we have which is in the millions. We also have one more year for one kid and four more years for the other. There’s no doubt that a family with $4.25 million in net worth can afford this. It’s silly to pretend otherwise. As I’ve said our investments increase by more than $100k pretty much every year. We could pay in full and so see our net worth continue to increase.

To be honest, I was expecting some more insightful replies than this. What I’m struggling with — and I thought I’d made clear in my OP — is whether it makes sense to spend that much money on an Ivy League education.

Well that is a choice you have to make. What might the kids need/want as grad school/professional school? Because at $4.25M net worth, I wouldn't pay $400K for undergrad and another $300-400K for each kid to attend grad school, unless I had that money already earmarked and saved. Because $4M is not that much for retirement if you are used to living a certain lifestyle. I wouldn't drain another $1M for my kids education. But If I had already saved it, or I had $8-10M+, then I might.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have the money to send both kids to full private. Inlcuding ivy if they get in. They certainly don’t need to be chasing merit but it sounds like you’re going to ask them to? Or go public? Maybe you should step back and think about your priorities. What do you want to do with your money? Invest in your kids? Set up the next generation? You aren’t going to run out of money. Even though it sounds like you’re worried about that. If the market tanks 30%, you’re not going to need access to all of it in the next 24 months - so you’re going to do what you did in the dot com crash and 2008 - wait it out until it comes back.

They only have $150K saved for college per kid. That's in-state pricing, not sending both kids to $90K+ schools.

IMO, we would explain the finances to the kids, discuss their plans (might they want/need graduate/professional school?) and determine the right path. But whatever you do, unless you are 100% committed to 90K+ per year, make certain your kid knows that, so they can have 75-80% schools that are targets and safeties that will be around in-state pricing (or just a bit more). DOn't let your kid think they can attend Harvard if they get in if you are not really willing to pay for that. Also if that's the case, don't let them apply to 80%+ schools that are 90K/year.

This is OP. We have $300k in college savings accounts. I clearly identified all the other sources of funds we have which is in the millions. We also have one more year for one kid and four more years for the other. There’s no doubt that a family with $4.25 million in net worth can afford this. It’s silly to pretend otherwise. As I’ve said our investments increase by more than $100k pretty much every year. We could pay in full and so see our net worth continue to increase.

To be honest, I was expecting some more insightful replies than this. What I’m struggling with — and I thought I’d made clear in my OP — is whether it makes sense to spend that much money on an Ivy League education.

Uh, rude. Go ask AI then. It will stroke your ego as it responds.

Yes OP seems to want to only want to hear, "Hey! You have nothing to worry about!! You are so rich and lucky!! Spend the $$ on the pricey college!!" Because the truth is, OP has already decided and came here to get justification.

I think OP wants to hear that it’s not worth it to alleviate any guilt when they says no to their kid.

What I think is that they have no idea what it takes to get into an Ivy. If their student is actually competitive and unique enough to get in on his own (am assuming no curated by a private college counselor vibe) then they should absolutely pay because that is one amazing kid.

I think the harder question is full pay top 25 private schools. Their student may get into one of those and it is likely a superior educational experience over a state flagship. What to do?

Except many of us don't believe it's a "superior education experience over a state flagship". The main difference (IMO) is the smaller class size and the opportunities that affords. But going to the honors program at many state U offers some similar perks.
So if you have the $$$, then yes it's worth it. But if you don't, then don't take on debt (or have to delay your retirement plans). Because 95% of what someone does in life has to do with their drive, work ethic and what they do in life, not where they attend.