This is an interesting article on why some LACs are struggling with enrollment, most LACs lag R1s on yield

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not at all surprising that top tier LACs are doing better than lower tier LACs. The value proposition for Oberlin or Kenyon is weak.

Plenty of people are going to choose a state flagship over a second tier LAC, this makes great sense just from a financial perspective, which the article doesn’t really emphasize.

Except that 2nd-tier LACs like Kenyon, Oxy, Macalester, etc. do offer merit aid of around $25K per year, which brings them in line with OOS public schools for those who want/need more scaffolding and smaller classes in their college experience. My DD is ADHD inattentive and chose a small LAC over an OOS public flagship for that reason. Both would have tuition of around $45K/year but she felt she'd struggle more in a large place.

And Kenyon, Macalester, and Oberlin are excellent colleges filled with high performing students who go on to have successful, fulfilling, careers and lives. They are not slouches by any stretch of the imagination.

I know a Macalester kid who just got an elite firm IB internship. Smarts and hustle all the way.

Isn't Macalester super woke? I didn't know it attracted IB types.

Nope. Too woke if you are a MAGA moron. But by general terms, not at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yield is a useless metric and the increased obsession with it is really annoying. Schools should focus their money and effort on more important things than gaming a dumb system.

Top LACs are the perfect case of "IYKYK." A lot of people don't know about them and/or don't appreciate them. And I don't want my kids going to school with the children of these people anyway.

I have met a number of people who say "why would you send your kid to Williams/Amherst/Bowdoin/etc." Yet in the next breath act like they know everything about colleges. I prefer to stay far away. Please keep your ignorance away from my kid.

+100. I have made this exact pint so many times here but the rubes just don’t get it.

[Anonymous]

Wow. Great article, OP. My guess is that the mid-tier SLACs are much like the mid-tier national universities. The strong get stronger, the weak get weaker.

The top 50 of US News are increasingly pulling away from lower ranked ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the LACs just need to accept that integration of pre professional resources is important to families. Why don’t the Claremont schools have pipelines to Hollywood? To aerospace? To tech?

Why doesn’t Williams have a program with the local department of public health? Or a major conservation organization in western mass? Or rural healthcare?

All of these lacs have alum and students mass applying and scrambling for internship and job opportunities. Many major universities give them out like candy. You have to actually integrate your college into daily life rather than keeping these students sheltered.

You constantly hear university moms on here complaining that their kids can’t get internships. Getting internships honestly isn’t an issue for kids from top LACs, they readily available due to their networks.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not at all surprising that top tier LACs are doing better than lower tier LACs. The value proposition for Oberlin or Kenyon is weak.

Plenty of people are going to choose a state flagship over a second tier LAC, this makes great sense just from a financial perspective, which the article doesn’t really emphasize.

Except that 2nd-tier LACs like Kenyon, Oxy, Macalester, etc. do offer merit aid of around $25K per year, which brings them in line with OOS public schools for those who want/need more scaffolding and smaller classes in their college experience. My DD is ADHD inattentive and chose a small LAC over an OOS public flagship for that reason. Both would have tuition of around $45K/year but she felt she'd struggle more in a large place.

And Kenyon, Macalester, and Oberlin are excellent colleges filled with high performing students who go on to have successful, fulfilling, careers and lives. They are not slouches by any stretch of the imagination.

I know a Macalester kid who just got an elite firm IB internship. Smarts and hustle all the way.

Isn't Macalester super woke? I didn't know it attracted IB types.

Right on cue! Welcome to your latest LAC thread, anti-woke weirdo!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the LACs just need to accept that integration of pre professional resources is important to families. Why don’t the Claremont schools have pipelines to Hollywood? To aerospace? To tech?

Why doesn’t Williams have a program with the local department of public health? Or a major conservation organization in western mass? Or rural healthcare?

All of these lacs have alum and students mass applying and scrambling for internship and job opportunities. Many major universities give them out like candy. You have to actually integrate your college into daily life rather than keeping these students sheltered.

You constantly hear university moms on here complaining that their kids can’t get internships. Getting internships honestly isn’t an issue for kids from top LACs, they readily available due to their networks.

+1

I’d push back on this. About 40% of DD’s top lac class still don’t know what they’re going to do postgrad. This has also been the worst year for research and internship in decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow. Great article, OP. My guess is that the mid-tier SLACs are much like the mid-tier national universities. The strong get stronger, the weak get weaker.

The top 50 of US News are increasingly pulling away from lower ranked ones.

There is some truth to this though I would expand the R1s to top 75 or so. Lot’s of really strong schools in that 51-75 bucket though there is some sketchy schools in the 30-75 when you are looking at some of the public’s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the LACs just need to accept that integration of pre professional resources is important to families. Why don’t the Claremont schools have pipelines to Hollywood? To aerospace? To tech?

Why doesn’t Williams have a program with the local department of public health? Or a major conservation organization in western mass? Or rural healthcare?

All of these lacs have alum and students mass applying and scrambling for internship and job opportunities. Many major universities give them out like candy. You have to actually integrate your college into daily life rather than keeping these students sheltered.

You constantly hear university moms on here complaining that their kids can’t get internships. Getting internships honestly isn’t an issue for kids from top LACs, they readily available due to their networks.

+1

I’d push back on this. About 40% of DD’s top lac class still don’t know what they’re going to do postgrad. This has also been the worst year for research and internship in decades.

Maybe regional? I’m not hearing of any issues at my kids school. All of the juniors that I know have been locked for awhile. Same for sophomores who were looking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the LACs just need to accept that integration of pre professional resources is important to families. Why don’t the Claremont schools have pipelines to Hollywood? To aerospace? To tech?

Why doesn’t Williams have a program with the local department of public health? Or a major conservation organization in western mass? Or rural healthcare?

All of these lacs have alum and students mass applying and scrambling for internship and job opportunities. Many major universities give them out like candy. You have to actually integrate your college into daily life rather than keeping these students sheltered.

You constantly hear university moms on here complaining that their kids can’t get internships. Getting internships honestly isn’t an issue for kids from top LACs, they readily available due to their networks.

+1

I’d push back on this. About 40% of DD’s top lac class still don’t know what they’re going to do postgrad. This has also been the worst year for research and internship in decades.

And that’s different from which R1 class right now? My anecdote of 1 is DC’s paid (non-stem) internship for this summer from a top LAC. No nepo, just dumb luck maybe.

But all grads and potential interns are facing an increasingly challenging environment currently. You’re definitely not wrong about that! I’m just not sure this points at LACs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the LACs just need to accept that integration of pre professional resources is important to families. Why don’t the Claremont schools have pipelines to Hollywood? To aerospace? To tech?

Why doesn’t Williams have a program with the local department of public health? Or a major conservation organization in western mass? Or rural healthcare?

All of these lacs have alum and students mass applying and scrambling for internship and job opportunities. Many major universities give them out like candy. You have to actually integrate your college into daily life rather than keeping these students sheltered.

You constantly hear university moms on here complaining that their kids can’t get internships. Getting internships honestly isn’t an issue for kids from top LACs, they readily available due to their networks.

+1

I’d push back on this. About 40% of DD’s top lac class still don’t know what they’re going to do postgrad. This has also been the worst year for research and internship in decades.

Maybe regional? I’m not hearing of any issues at my kids school. All of the juniors that I know have been locked for awhile. Same for sophomores who were looking.

I'm talking about a top 5 lac. It's not regional, you're just not aware.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the LACs just need to accept that integration of pre professional resources is important to families. Why don’t the Claremont schools have pipelines to Hollywood? To aerospace? To tech?

Why doesn’t Williams have a program with the local department of public health? Or a major conservation organization in western mass? Or rural healthcare?

All of these lacs have alum and students mass applying and scrambling for internship and job opportunities. Many major universities give them out like candy. You have to actually integrate your college into daily life rather than keeping these students sheltered.

You constantly hear university moms on here complaining that their kids can’t get internships. Getting internships honestly isn’t an issue for kids from top LACs, they readily available due to their networks.

+1

I’d push back on this. About 40% of DD’s top lac class still don’t know what they’re going to do postgrad. This has also been the worst year for research and internship in decades.

And that’s different from which R1 class right now? My anecdote of 1 is DC’s paid (non-stem) internship for this summer from a top LAC. No nepo, just dumb luck maybe.

But all grads and potential interns are facing an increasingly challenging environment currently. You’re definitely not wrong about that! I’m just not sure this points at LACs.

I'm not the one making comparisons between LAC and R1s, because that is a stupid waste of time. My point is the claim that lac kids just waltz into internships is wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the LACs just need to accept that integration of pre professional resources is important to families. Why don’t the Claremont schools have pipelines to Hollywood? To aerospace? To tech?

Why doesn’t Williams have a program with the local department of public health? Or a major conservation organization in western mass? Or rural healthcare?

All of these lacs have alum and students mass applying and scrambling for internship and job opportunities. Many major universities give them out like candy. You have to actually integrate your college into daily life rather than keeping these students sheltered.

You constantly hear university moms on here complaining that their kids can’t get internships. Getting internships honestly isn’t an issue for kids from top LACs, they readily available due to their networks.

+1

I’d push back on this. About 40% of DD’s top lac class still don’t know what they’re going to do postgrad. This has also been the worst year for research and internship in decades.

Maybe regional? I’m not hearing of any issues at my kids school. All of the juniors that I know have been locked for awhile. Same for sophomores who were looking.

I'm talking about a top 5 lac. It's not regional, you're just not aware.

Maybe some issues with your kids and their friend group. I’m not sure how you would know that 40% of the class doesn’t know what they are doing. I am sure that you wouldn’t actually know this but are instead just making stuff up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the LACs just need to accept that integration of pre professional resources is important to families. Why don’t the Claremont schools have pipelines to Hollywood? To aerospace? To tech?

Why doesn’t Williams have a program with the local department of public health? Or a major conservation organization in western mass? Or rural healthcare?

All of these lacs have alum and students mass applying and scrambling for internship and job opportunities. Many major universities give them out like candy. You have to actually integrate your college into daily life rather than keeping these students sheltered.

You constantly hear university moms on here complaining that their kids can’t get internships. Getting internships honestly isn’t an issue for kids from top LACs, they readily available due to their networks.

+1

I’d push back on this. About 40% of DD’s top lac class still don’t know what they’re going to do postgrad. This has also been the worst year for research and internship in decades.

Maybe regional? I’m not hearing of any issues at my kids school. All of the juniors that I know have been locked for awhile. Same for sophomores who were looking.

I'm talking about a top 5 lac. It's not regional, you're just not aware.

Maybe some issues with your kids and their friend group. I’m not sure how you would know that 40% of the class doesn’t know what they are doing. I am sure that you wouldn’t actually know this but are instead just making stuff up.

It’s been surveyed by career services. It’s crazy how in denial you people are. No, things aren’t unicorn and goddamn rainbows during a recession just cause your kid is special and goes to an LAC. Cool it. The truth is most people don’t have strong plans right now, and yes- some people are still obviously getting jobs or into their phds, but that is not an indication that everything is fine and dandy. There’s a chance my kid goes to the same school as yours and it’s actually ridiculous hearing a mom sit here and explain to me that everyone just has a job- that’s not true, and you know it. Quit the defensive bs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the LACs just need to accept that integration of pre professional resources is important to families. Why don’t the Claremont schools have pipelines to Hollywood? To aerospace? To tech?

Why doesn’t Williams have a program with the local department of public health? Or a major conservation organization in western mass? Or rural healthcare?

All of these lacs have alum and students mass applying and scrambling for internship and job opportunities. Many major universities give them out like candy. You have to actually integrate your college into daily life rather than keeping these students sheltered.

You constantly hear university moms on here complaining that their kids can’t get internships. Getting internships honestly isn’t an issue for kids from top LACs, they readily available due to their networks.

+1

I’d push back on this. About 40% of DD’s top lac class still don’t know what they’re going to do postgrad. This has also been the worst year for research and internship in decades.

And that’s different from which R1 class right now? My anecdote of 1 is DC’s paid (non-stem) internship for this summer from a top LAC. No nepo, just dumb luck maybe.

But all grads and potential interns are facing an increasingly challenging environment currently. You’re definitely not wrong about that! I’m just not sure this points at LACs.

I'm not the one making comparisons between LAC and R1s, because that is a stupid waste of time. My point is the claim that lac kids just waltz into internships is wrong.

Got it. I agree that very few waltz in from either R1 or LAC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not at all surprising that top tier LACs are doing better than lower tier LACs. The value proposition for Oberlin or Kenyon is weak.

Plenty of people are going to choose a state flagship over a second tier LAC, this makes great sense just from a financial perspective, which the article doesn’t really emphasize.

Except that 2nd-tier LACs like Kenyon, Oxy, Macalester, etc. do offer merit aid of around $25K per year, which brings them in line with OOS public schools for those who want/need more scaffolding and smaller classes in their college experience. My DD is ADHD inattentive and chose a small LAC over an OOS public flagship for that reason. Both would have tuition of around $45K/year but she felt she'd struggle more in a large place.

And Kenyon, Macalester, and Oberlin are excellent colleges filled with high performing students who go on to have successful, fulfilling, careers and lives. They are not slouches by any stretch of the imagination.

I know a Macalester kid who just got an elite firm IB internship. Smarts and hustle all the way.

Isn't Macalester super woke? I didn't know it attracted IB types.

Nope. Too woke if you are a MAGA moron. But by general terms, not at all.

Cool it progressive lefty. Macalester was already known as a very liberal school when I was in college in the 1990s. Ref point is that I went to Kenyon.

Anyhow, my one contribution to this topic is that based on what I see at kids' high performing UMC schools is a sharp decline in LAC interest among the boys who favor bigger schools, especially flagships, and among donut hole families favoring in state flagships at a third of the cost. Hard to argue with both.