AEI says Dual-income 1-kid $133k/yr is "upper middle class"

[Anonymous]

This always comes down to fundamentally different definitions of middle class, UMC, etc. Some people focus on the income percentage distribution - if you make the median income, you are definitionally middle class, while if you are in the top 10% income, you are upper middle class, etc. Others focus on lifestyle - if you can live the 1950s version of middle class, you are middle class, and if you live the 1950s version of UMC, you're that.

Both definitions are significantly flawed, which becomes the focus of the discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at 180k, dual income two kids, and I feel like we're middle class but definitely not UMC.

Middle class: own our home, have health insurance and keep up on preventative care, some ability to save for college and max out retirement accounts (but can't pay full fare for private school or retire early); some discretionary income so we are able to do social stuff and some fun activities.

Not UMC: we live in a townhome with our kids sharing a room, had planned to buy an SFH around now but are simply priced out, even in one of the less expensive DMV exurbs. I am sure some if you will say that we could if we made better spending choices, but most of our clothes are secondhand, we share one car, and we are careful about limiting expenses for kids' activities and entertainment like eating out or babysitters; houses really are just that expensive right now.

I would argue that maxing 401ks (which btw is saving like $40K per year) is UMC. I would say middle class is more like saving 5-10%.

DP (I'm the PP with the 160k HHI from above) and I disagree. They are maxing out their 401ks by saving money other places -- just one car, limited activities for kids, buying secondhand clothes, limited entertainment and babysitters.

Even a working class person can make choices like this if they budget really, really tightly. It's how people facilitate their kids' upward mobility, because saving for education and your own retirement helps to unburden the next generation with the same financial stressors you had/have (like education debt and elder care). This is a classic middle class choice.

UMC people don't have to choose. They can max their 401k and still buy their kids new clothes for school and hire a sitter for a date night.

Absurd. Poor people make progress by investing in their development, not by saving for retirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at 180k, dual income two kids, and I feel like we're middle class but definitely not UMC.

Middle class: own our home, have health insurance and keep up on preventative care, some ability to save for college and max out retirement accounts (but can't pay full fare for private school or retire early); some discretionary income so we are able to do social stuff and some fun activities.

Not UMC: we live in a townhome with our kids sharing a room, had planned to buy an SFH around now but are simply priced out, even in one of the less expensive DMV exurbs. I am sure some if you will say that we could if we made better spending choices, but most of our clothes are secondhand, we share one car, and we are careful about limiting expenses for kids' activities and entertainment like eating out or babysitters; houses really are just that expensive right now.

I would argue that maxing 401ks (which btw is saving like $40K per year) is UMC. I would say middle class is more like saving 5-10%.

I'm the PP. We're maxing now to catch up because we made so little money in our 20s and early 30s that we couldn't save much. We have to choose between trying to be able to retire in our 60s vs having a single family house to raise our kids, basically. That's not UMC.

Also, I don't think saving 5% for retirement is standard MC. That's too low under almost any calculator.

DP, but disagree with you. Most people aren’t saving like 15% for retirement but whatever their match is. I think the PP who said 5-10% is middle class is probably right.

[Anonymous]

It's a scam since there are no pensions and college is expensive you have save like 40% of your income and can't use it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I make $800K+ and my spouse makes about $500K a year and we feel UMC at best. But then again, this is DC. It's expensive to live here. We recently bought a vacation home near Jackson Hole, WY and eventually plan to live there at least 50% of the time. One major benefit other than the natural beauty is WY has no income taxes, low sales taxes, and low property taxes.

You’re either a troll or egregiously out of touch with reality.

Probably troll. DC isn’t the most expensive place to live. Based on figures, DC is about 10th in expensive areas. To live comfortably you need about $157,000 income. It varies depending on what you want and how you want to live but everyone here exaggerates.



https://www.cnbc.com/2025/10/16/income-needed-to-live-comfortably-in-most-expensive-us-cities.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are at 180k, dual income two kids, and I feel like we're middle class but definitely not UMC.

Middle class: own our home, have health insurance and keep up on preventative care, some ability to save for college and max out retirement accounts (but can't pay full fare for private school or retire early); some discretionary income so we are able to do social stuff and some fun activities.

Not UMC: we live in a townhome with our kids sharing a room, had planned to buy an SFH around now but are simply priced out, even in one of the less expensive DMV exurbs. I am sure some if you will say that we could if we made better spending choices, but most of our clothes are secondhand, we share one car, and we are careful about limiting expenses for kids' activities and entertainment like eating out or babysitters; houses really are just that expensive right now.

This is definitely MC in this area.

Owning a sfh in a nice area here is UMC. MC could probably afford a tiny sfh in a bad area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at 180k, dual income two kids, and I feel like we're middle class but definitely not UMC.

Middle class: own our home, have health insurance and keep up on preventative care, some ability to save for college and max out retirement accounts (but can't pay full fare for private school or retire early); some discretionary income so we are able to do social stuff and some fun activities.

Not UMC: we live in a townhome with our kids sharing a room, had planned to buy an SFH around now but are simply priced out, even in one of the less expensive DMV exurbs. I am sure some if you will say that we could if we made better spending choices, but most of our clothes are secondhand, we share one car, and we are careful about limiting expenses for kids' activities and entertainment like eating out or babysitters; houses really are just that expensive right now.

This is definitely MC in this area.

Owning a sfh in a nice area here is UMC. MC could probably afford a tiny sfh in a bad area.

What do you consider a nice area? I mean, is Rockville a nice area? What about Fairfax?

Or must it be McLean and Chevy Chase?

[Anonymous]

This is only true if you live in middle of now where Kansas or Nebraska. 130k is nothing in the DC metro area or NYC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's a scam since there are no pensions and college is expensive you have save like 40% of your income and can't use it

+1000 you end up making more money and paying more taxes, but standard of living is not much different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:133k to 400k is a hell of a range. We're on the upper end of that and I feel like UMC is the right descriptor for us, but if we made 133k I don't think we'd own a house. Hard to justify those households being in the same bracket.

+1

Agree - it’s too large of a bracket. Not to mention, most of the “UMC” in that bracket are closer to $133k than $400k.

It’s a prime example of how charts and data can be used to mislead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.morningbrew.com/stories/2026/04/08/upper-middle-class-is-us-biggest-income-group

"In 2024, 31% of American families were upper middle class, compared with just 10% in 1979.


The think tank’s report defined the upper middle class as a family of three earning $133k to $400k in 2024 dollars—five to 15 times the federal poverty line."

$133K can be MC in some parts of the country. It's a wide range because of the variations in col across the country.

$133K in the DC area is actually MC. Median income around MoCo is about $133K.

Rust Belt and Deep South. Basically someplace where it’s a single doctor making $130k and everyone else is living on disability chasing drugs.

? as stated, Median income around MoCo is about $133K, and that is about what is considered MC in the DC area.

I guess it depends on what you consider a "middle class" lifestyle now a days.

Owning a single family home in a neighborhood you can walk your dog at night and feel safe, college for all kids, domestic annual vacations.

College for all kids (without loans I presume?) is absolutely not a middle class marker. Maybe in the old days. But now, that is an Upper Upper Middle Class benchmark.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at 180k, dual income two kids, and I feel like we're middle class but definitely not UMC.

Middle class: own our home, have health insurance and keep up on preventative care, some ability to save for college and max out retirement accounts (but can't pay full fare for private school or retire early); some discretionary income so we are able to do social stuff and some fun activities.

Not UMC: we live in a townhome with our kids sharing a room, had planned to buy an SFH around now but are simply priced out, even in one of the less expensive DMV exurbs. I am sure some if you will say that we could if we made better spending choices, but most of our clothes are secondhand, we share one car, and we are careful about limiting expenses for kids' activities and entertainment like eating out or babysitters; houses really are just that expensive right now.

This is definitely MC in this area.

Owning a sfh in a nice area here is UMC. MC could probably afford a tiny sfh in a bad area.

What do you consider a nice area? I mean, is Rockville a nice area? What about Fairfax?

Or must it be McLean and Chevy Chase?

In the Fairfax Count part of Alexandria, you can buy a tiny SFH in a fine neighborhood for about 700k. House will probably need a bunch of work.

That still is going to be a $5,000 per month payment, not including utilities and maintenance. It would be absolutely idiotic to buy that house on less than 180k gross. But really, I think it should be 180k net, which translates to closer to 270k.

It’s tough out here.