Deal math tracks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The iready diagnostic is awful. Does anyone know if Deal or the other middles let the kids truly take as much time as needed until the test is completed? It’s supposed to be untimed but my upper elementary DC has gotten such mixed signals about that. Sometimes DC is pushed to finish within two class periods. Other times DC has been given as long as needed (sometimes up to 3-4 class periods). I’ve noticed that DC is usually not rushed for the EOY test, which probably is why they always do much better on that one (and I think the teachers are gaming the test to have more kids reach their growth goals but that’s somewhat beyond the point). Is my kid going to be pushed to finish the math diagnostic super quickly and then have that used for placement for 6th grade math?

I find the diagnostic useful and very accurate as a DCPS math teacher. There is no time limit because it’s adaptive. Obviously testing conditions are important but assuming schools take it seriously and students know to take it seriously it is very reliable. Millions of students across the US take it so have percentile is also helpful. There will always be students around a cut off score schools use for acceleration who could have gone either way. “Algebra 1”can be taught in many ways. Trying to compare grades in a private school as evidence they would have done well in Deal is not apples to apples.

As a math teacher, I too find the diagnostic useful, as well as the growth checks, and lessons. Better than many programs. Is it the best? Hard to say, but it is useful.

My kids are both good at math. The one who hates iready has somewhat maxed out what her school has to offer during class, despite only scoring in the 95-98 percentile on iready, and is now often doing side lessons on programs like Khan and IXL while the teacher is working with kids who are lagging behind. The fact that a kid like mine underperforms on iready concerns me and makes me skeptical of the program. Sure, my other kid who is way out on the tail of the 99th percentile doesn't mind it as much, but still isn't a huge fan.

As I mentioned above, I have two main concerns with iready. The first is that it apparently jumps around between topics in the diagnostic, which really drives one of my kids crazy. The other is that the diagnostic is supposed to be untimed but DC has gotten such inconsistent guidance on this from teachers. Sometimes DC is told they need to get to 50% of the test in the first class period, and finish in the second. Other times, DC is allowed to go as long as needed at whatever pace they want. I get it that the test seems quite long and teachers don't like it taking up so much class time but a few years of this has stressed my kid out, since they know the test matters and they also know they do much better on it when not rushed. AND DC senses that it actually gives you more questions when you're doing better, to test which harder topics you actually know how to do. DC does not mind the growth checks, which are 20 questions and more consistent, and does consistently well on those. As a parent, I know my kids are supposed to be learning test-taking skills and they aren't going to like every test, and I back up the school on this. But I find it interesting that DC does not mind any other test other than the math iready.

FWIW both of my kids also grumble about the iready lessons. They are happy to do Khan, Zearn, or IXL at school but find iready lessons really tedious. Zearn and IXL seem to get the point a little better and let them actually accelerate.

Meant to add that I get we're stuck with this test and we'd be stuck with some test regardless. There has to be a cutoff. But I do have some concerns about what happens when my eldest gets to Deal next year. She's been doing well in math at our ES and I'm bummed that it'll just be some cutoff on the test she does the worst on. But I suppose that's life.

From the other side, I would just like to say that it isn’t as high stakes as you seem to feel. The system is fairly flexible. I have one kid who was placed in 7th grade math, did SMAC, took Algebra I in 7th and Geometry in 8th, but then slowed down in high school, took a year of AP Stats, and didn’t get beyond AP Calc. My other kid was on grade in 6th and 7th but made it to Algebra I in 8th, and now looks like they’ll cover exactly the same math by the end of high school (because they can take AP Stats and AP Calc the same year).

It seems like part of the issue is that your kid is stressed by the pressure of the test, so maybe if you can help them feel that it’s not that big of a deal, that will help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:BEWARE: If your kid underperforms on I-ready like mine did, they will be tracked into 6th, 7th and 8th grade math, with Algebra 1 in 9th grade. That makes them ineligible to reach calculus by 12th grade (the bare minimum needed for top colleges). Most middle schools have all 8th graders in Algebra 1 as the norm. Deal is an outlier.
Yes, I know it’s possible to skip ahead with Deal summer math but not everyone wants their kid to spend the summer doing math.
My kid took 6th and 7th grade math at Deal. I moved them into private school in 8th where they were placed in Algebra 1. (No 8th grade math existed). Guess what? Kid is getting straight A’s in Algebra. I’m flabbergasted that they would have wasted a year in 8th grade math had they stayed at Deal - all because my kid underperforms on the terrible I-ready assessment.

My kid missed the cutoff by one point. They have a great teacher now, in 8th grade, but did not have a good 6th grade math experience at all, and definitely did not want to do summer math. Both 7th and 8th grade math teachers recognized that they should have been accelerated, but the 6th grade experience gave them such a negative outlook on math that all attempts at enrichment were counterproductive. It's been maddening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BEWARE: If your kid underperforms on I-ready like mine did, they will be tracked into 6th, 7th and 8th grade math, with Algebra 1 in 9th grade. That makes them ineligible to reach calculus by 12th grade (the bare minimum needed for top colleges). Most middle schools have all 8th graders in Algebra 1 as the norm. Deal is an outlier.
Yes, I know it’s possible to skip ahead with Deal summer math but not everyone wants their kid to spend the summer doing math.
My kid took 6th and 7th grade math at Deal. I moved them into private school in 8th where they were placed in Algebra 1. (No 8th grade math existed). Guess what? Kid is getting straight A’s in Algebra. I’m flabbergasted that they would have wasted a year in 8th grade math had they stayed at Deal - all because my kid underperforms on the terrible I-ready assessment.

My kid missed the cutoff by one point. They have a great teacher now, in 8th grade, but did not have a good 6th grade math experience at all, and definitely did not want to do summer math. Both 7th and 8th grade math teachers recognized that they should have been accelerated, but the 6th grade experience gave them such a negative outlook on math that all attempts at enrichment were counterproductive. It's been maddening.

This sounds like a parenting problem more than it does an assessment problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The iready diagnostic is awful. Does anyone know if Deal or the other middles let the kids truly take as much time as needed until the test is completed? It’s supposed to be untimed but my upper elementary DC has gotten such mixed signals about that. Sometimes DC is pushed to finish within two class periods. Other times DC has been given as long as needed (sometimes up to 3-4 class periods). I’ve noticed that DC is usually not rushed for the EOY test, which probably is why they always do much better on that one (and I think the teachers are gaming the test to have more kids reach their growth goals but that’s somewhat beyond the point). Is my kid going to be pushed to finish the math diagnostic super quickly and then have that used for placement for 6th grade math?

I find the diagnostic useful and very accurate as a DCPS math teacher. There is no time limit because it’s adaptive. Obviously testing conditions are important but assuming schools take it seriously and students know to take it seriously it is very reliable. Millions of students across the US take it so have percentile is also helpful. There will always be students around a cut off score schools use for acceleration who could have gone either way. “Algebra 1”can be taught in many ways. Trying to compare grades in a private school as evidence they would have done well in Deal is not apples to apples.

As a math teacher, I too find the diagnostic useful, as well as the growth checks, and lessons. Better than many programs. Is it the best? Hard to say, but it is useful.

My kids are both good at math. The one who hates iready has somewhat maxed out what her school has to offer during class, despite only scoring in the 95-98 percentile on iready, and is now often doing side lessons on programs like Khan and IXL while the teacher is working with kids who are lagging behind. The fact that a kid like mine underperforms on iready concerns me and makes me skeptical of the program. Sure, my other kid who is way out on the tail of the 99th percentile doesn't mind it as much, but still isn't a huge fan.

As I mentioned above, I have two main concerns with iready. The first is that it apparently jumps around between topics in the diagnostic, which really drives one of my kids crazy. The other is that the diagnostic is supposed to be untimed but DC has gotten such inconsistent guidance on this from teachers. Sometimes DC is told they need to get to 50% of the test in the first class period, and finish in the second. Other times, DC is allowed to go as long as needed at whatever pace they want. I get it that the test seems quite long and teachers don't like it taking up so much class time but a few years of this has stressed my kid out, since they know the test matters and they also know they do much better on it when not rushed. AND DC senses that it actually gives you more questions when you're doing better, to test which harder topics you actually know how to do. DC does not mind the growth checks, which are 20 questions and more consistent, and does consistently well on those. As a parent, I know my kids are supposed to be learning test-taking skills and they aren't going to like every test, and I back up the school on this. But I find it interesting that DC does not mind any other test other than the math iready.

FWIW both of my kids also grumble about the iready lessons. They are happy to do Khan, Zearn, or IXL at school but find iready lessons really tedious. Zearn and IXL seem to get the point a little better and let them actually accelerate.

Meant to add that I get we're stuck with this test and we'd be stuck with some test regardless. There has to be a cutoff. But I do have some concerns about what happens when my eldest gets to Deal next year. She's been doing well in math at our ES and I'm bummed that it'll just be some cutoff on the test she does the worst on. But I suppose that's life.

From the other side, I would just like to say that it isn’t as high stakes as you seem to feel. The system is fairly flexible. I have one kid who was placed in 7th grade math, did SMAC, took Algebra I in 7th and Geometry in 8th, but then slowed down in high school, took a year of AP Stats, and didn’t get beyond AP Calc. My other kid was on grade in 6th and 7th but made it to Algebra I in 8th, and now looks like they’ll cover exactly the same math by the end of high school (because they can take AP Stats and AP Calc the same year).

It seems like part of the issue is that your kid is stressed by the pressure of the test, so maybe if you can help them feel that it’s not that big of a deal, that will help.

+1. And there are opportunities later on to do more math as well, if you like it and you're good at it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is Deal no longer offering Algebra 2 and geometry is the highest track in 8th?

I don’t know, but my guess would be because it’s unnecessary, and because art and music are important too.

What?? This is BS.

You can offer art and music and more advance math.

At least Deal offered Algebra 2 in the past. So they have taken that away and now no DCPS middle school offers anything except geometry by 9th.

Talk about lowering standards. Why have Deal families not pushed back in this???

At Deal, you always had to double-block to get to Algebra 2 in 8th. That means giving up another class. What other subject are you planning to sacrifice, if not art or music? History? Science?

There are only so many hours in the day. If you do more math, you have to do less of something else. And middle school is a little young to be dropping core subjects.

+1
And Deal requires three years of foreign language. Art/music/PE + history/civics + ELA + science + language + math = 6 classes.

Why do you need to take both art and music? Why can’t you take one or the other and take Algebra 2 like before?

Why are you prioritizing what basically is electives over math?

Art/music/PE rotate, so they only take up one period total. Every year, the kids take one semester of PE, and then art or music. And not everyone thinks math is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER.

OK but some families with mathy kids do think it’s important.

Why can’t they compress the math into 3 years like some schools in the city. It’s not like the kids can’t handle it.

It’s ridiculous that what is supposed to be one of the best middle schools in DCPS only offers up to geometry in 8th. This is such a low bar.

It is such a low bar. And it hurts smart kids who are good at math look competitive for college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is Deal no longer offering Algebra 2 and geometry is the highest track in 8th?

I don’t know, but my guess would be because it’s unnecessary, and because art and music are important too.

What?? This is BS.

You can offer art and music and more advance math.

At least Deal offered Algebra 2 in the past. So they have taken that away and now no DCPS middle school offers anything except geometry by 9th.

Talk about lowering standards. Why have Deal families not pushed back in this???

At Deal, you always had to double-block to get to Algebra 2 in 8th. That means giving up another class. What other subject are you planning to sacrifice, if not art or music? History? Science?

There are only so many hours in the day. If you do more math, you have to do less of something else. And middle school is a little young to be dropping core subjects.

+1
And Deal requires three years of foreign language. Art/music/PE + history/civics + ELA + science + language + math = 6 classes.

Why do you need to take both art and music? Why can’t you take one or the other and take Algebra 2 like before?

Why are you prioritizing what basically is electives over math?

Art/music/PE rotate, so they only take up one period total. Every year, the kids take one semester of PE, and then art or music. And not everyone thinks math is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER.

OK but some families with mathy kids do think it’s important.

Why can’t they compress the math into 3 years like some schools in the city. It’s not like the kids can’t handle it.

It’s ridiculous that what is supposed to be one of the best middle schools in DCPS only offers up to geometry in 8th. This is such a low bar.

It is such a low bar. And it hurts smart kids who are good at math look competitive for college.

I'm sure all of those "mathy kids" could also finish all of DCPS's middle school science curriculum in a year. Why are we not angry about lack of accelerated paths there? Because parents like to brag about how accelerated our kids are at math, but nobody cares about science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is Deal no longer offering Algebra 2 and geometry is the highest track in 8th?

I don’t know, but my guess would be because it’s unnecessary, and because art and music are important too.

What?? This is BS.

You can offer art and music and more advance math.

At least Deal offered Algebra 2 in the past. So they have taken that away and now no DCPS middle school offers anything except geometry by 9th.

Talk about lowering standards. Why have Deal families not pushed back in this???

At Deal, you always had to double-block to get to Algebra 2 in 8th. That means giving up another class. What other subject are you planning to sacrifice, if not art or music? History? Science?

There are only so many hours in the day. If you do more math, you have to do less of something else. And middle school is a little young to be dropping core subjects.

+1
And Deal requires three years of foreign language. Art/music/PE + history/civics + ELA + science + language + math = 6 classes.

Why do you need to take both art and music? Why can’t you take one or the other and take Algebra 2 like before?

Why are you prioritizing what basically is electives over math?

Art/music/PE rotate, so they only take up one period total. Every year, the kids take one semester of PE, and then art or music. And not everyone thinks math is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER.

OK but some families with mathy kids do think it’s important.

Why can’t they compress the math into 3 years like some schools in the city. It’s not like the kids can’t handle it.

It’s ridiculous that what is supposed to be one of the best middle schools in DCPS only offers up to geometry in 8th. This is such a low bar.

It is such a low bar. And it hurts smart kids who are good at math look competitive for college.

I'm sure all of those "mathy kids" could also finish all of DCPS's middle school science curriculum in a year. Why are we not angry about lack of accelerated paths there? Because parents like to brag about how accelerated our kids are at math, but nobody cares about science.

Science is a huge issue. It’s so bad that some middle schools in the past scored like 2% with the kids who were on grade level with PARCC. Deal didn’t do that great either at around 30% but was in the higher end of the curve.

Unfortunately, apparently the new science curriculum DCPS has recently adopted for middle school, Amplify, is terrible and worst per the science teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is Deal no longer offering Algebra 2 and geometry is the highest track in 8th?

I don’t know, but my guess would be because it’s unnecessary, and because art and music are important too.

What?? This is BS.

You can offer art and music and more advance math.

At least Deal offered Algebra 2 in the past. So they have taken that away and now no DCPS middle school offers anything except geometry by 9th.

Talk about lowering standards. Why have Deal families not pushed back in this???

At Deal, you always had to double-block to get to Algebra 2 in 8th. That means giving up another class. What other subject are you planning to sacrifice, if not art or music? History? Science?

There are only so many hours in the day. If you do more math, you have to do less of something else. And middle school is a little young to be dropping core subjects.

+1
And Deal requires three years of foreign language. Art/music/PE + history/civics + ELA + science + language + math = 6 classes.

Why do you need to take both art and music? Why can’t you take one or the other and take Algebra 2 like before?

Why are you prioritizing what basically is electives over math?

Art/music/PE rotate, so they only take up one period total. Every year, the kids take one semester of PE, and then art or music. And not everyone thinks math is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER.

OK but some families with mathy kids do think it’s important.

Why can’t they compress the math into 3 years like some schools in the city. It’s not like the kids can’t handle it.

It’s ridiculous that what is supposed to be one of the best middle schools in DCPS only offers up to geometry in 8th. This is such a low bar.

It is such a low bar. And it hurts smart kids who are good at math look competitive for college.

I'm sure all of those "mathy kids" could also finish all of DCPS's middle school science curriculum in a year. Why are we not angry about lack of accelerated paths there? Because parents like to brag about how accelerated our kids are at math, but nobody cares about science.

We really should talk about science, because good science education is a huge indicator that a school is able to teach many other things well, too. Unfortunately, the number of middle schools where more than a third of the kids score as proficient in science is like 5 (BASIS, Latins, Deal, Hardy).

All the rest are 10 percent proficient or less.

[Anonymous]

Sci teacher here: expect them to drop with amplify.

DCPS stopped paying for map science in middle school. I feel strongly it’s because they don’t want the data to come out that amplify is so much worse. Map scores can go to families the same week nine times in middle school. Science cape is taken at the end of 8th grade, and scores aren’t released until the kids are on their way to high school. Parents don’t complain at that point.