TJ Science and Engineering Fair Results

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They should have judges who do not have children at TJ or not participating in the Fair.

I was a judge a couple of years back and my child did not participate in the Fair ever. At that time, those I rated ended roughly what I expected.

This is how the vast majority of schools run their science fairs, from elementary to high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should have judges who do not have children at TJ or not participating in the Fair.

I was a judge a couple of years back and my child did not participate in the Fair ever. At that time, those I rated ended roughly what I expected.

This is how the vast majority of schools run their science fairs, from elementary to high school.

DP. I met a lot of parents that are good and moral - they wont sabotage some other kid for their kid to get ahead. They have a laid back attitude of "everything will work out" - I'm not going to be a model of cheating.

Then we have hundreds of Littlefingers in the county that will do what it takes. Trying to create a policy that doesn't accuse or target them is a bit hard. Kids watch kids of Littlefingers and see them unfairly get ahead - this causes an effect of: this is what I got to do to get ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should have judges who do not have children at TJ or not participating in the Fair.

I was a judge a couple of years back and my child did not participate in the Fair ever. At that time, those I rated ended roughly what I expected.

This is how the vast majority of schools run their science fairs, from elementary to high school.

DP. I met a lot of parents that are good and moral - they wont sabotage some other kid for their kid to get ahead. They have a laid back attitude of "everything will work out" - I'm not going to be a model of cheating.

Then we have hundreds of Littlefingers in the county that will do what it takes. Trying to create a policy that doesn't accuse or target them is a bit hard. Kids watch kids of Littlefingers and see them unfairly get ahead - this causes an effect of: this is what I got to do to get ahead.

Agreed. It is just unfortunate that the new administration is putting increased value on awards and accolades, which means we'll see more of this kind of parent-engineering cheating. Unless the top supports ethics and sets clear boundaries and consequences, these parents will continue to teach their kids that cheating is okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should have judges who do not have children at TJ or not participating in the Fair.

I was a judge a couple of years back and my child did not participate in the Fair ever. At that time, those I rated ended roughly what I expected.

This is how the vast majority of schools run their science fairs, from elementary to high school.

DP. I met a lot of parents that are good and moral - they wont sabotage some other kid for their kid to get ahead. They have a laid back attitude of "everything will work out" - I'm not going to be a model of cheating.

Then we have hundreds of Littlefingers in the county that will do what it takes. Trying to create a policy that doesn't accuse or target them is a bit hard. Kids watch kids of Littlefingers and see them unfairly get ahead - this causes an effect of: this is what I got to do to get ahead.

I've been in the room during judging and they don't do this.

The kids who are most likely to succeed have parents that are more likely to be invested in the activity and that is your volunteer pool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should have judges who do not have children at TJ or not participating in the Fair.

I was a judge a couple of years back and my child did not participate in the Fair ever. At that time, those I rated ended roughly what I expected.

This is how the vast majority of schools run their science fairs, from elementary to high school.

DP. I met a lot of parents that are good and moral - they wont sabotage some other kid for their kid to get ahead. They have a laid back attitude of "everything will work out" - I'm not going to be a model of cheating.

Then we have hundreds of Littlefingers in the county that will do what it takes. Trying to create a policy that doesn't accuse or target them is a bit hard. Kids watch kids of Littlefingers and see them unfairly get ahead - this causes an effect of: this is what I got to do to get ahead.

Agreed. It is just unfortunate that the new administration is putting increased value on awards and accolades, which means we'll see more of this kind of parent-engineering cheating. Unless the top supports ethics and sets clear boundaries and consequences, these parents will continue to teach their kids that cheating is okay.

Do you have any evidence that Mukai is not supporting ethical behavior?

Perhaps you can give examples of when Bonitatibus set these clear boundaries and consequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should have judges who do not have children at TJ or not participating in the Fair.

I was a judge a couple of years back and my child did not participate in the Fair ever. At that time, those I rated ended roughly what I expected.

This is how the vast majority of schools run their science fairs, from elementary to high school.

DP. I met a lot of parents that are good and moral - they wont sabotage some other kid for their kid to get ahead. They have a laid back attitude of "everything will work out" - I'm not going to be a model of cheating.

Then we have hundreds of Littlefingers in the county that will do what it takes. Trying to create a policy that doesn't accuse or target them is a bit hard. Kids watch kids of Littlefingers and see them unfairly get ahead - this causes an effect of: this is what I got to do to get ahead.

Agreed. It is just unfortunate that the new administration is putting increased value on awards and accolades, which means we'll see more of this kind of parent-engineering cheating. Unless the top supports ethics and sets clear boundaries and consequences, these parents will continue to teach their kids that cheating is okay.

Do you have any evidence that Mukai is not supporting ethical behavior?

Perhaps you can give examples of when Bonitatibus set these clear boundaries and consequences.

One major issue is that TJ does not have a school wide policy and consequence for academic integrity violations. They vary from CT to CT and each AP handles these cases differently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should have judges who do not have children at TJ or not participating in the Fair.

I was a judge a couple of years back and my child did not participate in the Fair ever. At that time, those I rated ended roughly what I expected.

This is how the vast majority of schools run their science fairs, from elementary to high school.

DP. I met a lot of parents that are good and moral - they wont sabotage some other kid for their kid to get ahead. They have a laid back attitude of "everything will work out" - I'm not going to be a model of cheating.

Then we have hundreds of Littlefingers in the county that will do what it takes. Trying to create a policy that doesn't accuse or target them is a bit hard. Kids watch kids of Littlefingers and see them unfairly get ahead - this causes an effect of: this is what I got to do to get ahead.

Agreed. It is just unfortunate that the new administration is putting increased value on awards and accolades, which means we'll see more of this kind of parent-engineering cheating. Unless the top supports ethics and sets clear boundaries and consequences, these parents will continue to teach their kids that cheating is okay.

Do you have any evidence that Mukai is not supporting ethical behavior?

Perhaps you can give examples of when Bonitatibus set these clear boundaries and consequences.

One major issue is that TJ does not have a school wide policy and consequence for academic integrity violations. They vary from CT to CT and each AP handles these cases differently.

It's always been odd to me that TJ doesn't have a mechanism for returning kids to their base school for repeated or severe academic integrity violations.

They'll do it for kids who can't maintain a B average but not for kids who cheat over and over again.

FCPS should support the idea that TJ is a privilege that can be lost if you cheat. Would change a lot about that school's culture overnight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should have judges who do not have children at TJ or not participating in the Fair.

I was a judge a couple of years back and my child did not participate in the Fair ever. At that time, those I rated ended roughly what I expected.

This is how the vast majority of schools run their science fairs, from elementary to high school.

DP. I met a lot of parents that are good and moral - they wont sabotage some other kid for their kid to get ahead. They have a laid back attitude of "everything will work out" - I'm not going to be a model of cheating.

Then we have hundreds of Littlefingers in the county that will do what it takes. Trying to create a policy that doesn't accuse or target them is a bit hard. Kids watch kids of Littlefingers and see them unfairly get ahead - this causes an effect of: this is what I got to do to get ahead.

Agreed. It is just unfortunate that the new administration is putting increased value on awards and accolades, which means we'll see more of this kind of parent-engineering cheating. Unless the top supports ethics and sets clear boundaries and consequences, these parents will continue to teach their kids that cheating is okay.

Do you have any evidence that Mukai is not supporting ethical behavior?

Perhaps you can give examples of when Bonitatibus set these clear boundaries and consequences.

One major issue is that TJ does not have a school wide policy and consequence for academic integrity violations. They vary from CT to CT and each AP handles these cases differently.

It's always been odd to me that TJ doesn't have a mechanism for returning kids to their base school for repeated or severe academic integrity violations.

They'll do it for kids who can't maintain a B average but not for kids who cheat over and over again.

FCPS should support the idea that TJ is a privilege that can be lost if you cheat. Would change a lot about that school's culture overnight.

This is a fantastic idea. This one change would have a ripple effect far beyond competitions. Would love to see this implemented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should have judges who do not have children at TJ or not participating in the Fair.

I was a judge a couple of years back and my child did not participate in the Fair ever. At that time, those I rated ended roughly what I expected.

This is how the vast majority of schools run their science fairs, from elementary to high school.

DP. I met a lot of parents that are good and moral - they wont sabotage some other kid for their kid to get ahead. They have a laid back attitude of "everything will work out" - I'm not going to be a model of cheating.

Then we have hundreds of Littlefingers in the county that will do what it takes. Trying to create a policy that doesn't accuse or target them is a bit hard. Kids watch kids of Littlefingers and see them unfairly get ahead - this causes an effect of: this is what I got to do to get ahead.

Agreed. It is just unfortunate that the new administration is putting increased value on awards and accolades, which means we'll see more of this kind of parent-engineering cheating. Unless the top supports ethics and sets clear boundaries and consequences, these parents will continue to teach their kids that cheating is okay.

Do you have any evidence that Mukai is not supporting ethical behavior?

Perhaps you can give examples of when Bonitatibus set these clear boundaries and consequences.

One major issue is that TJ does not have a school wide policy and consequence for academic integrity violations. They vary from CT to CT and each AP handles these cases differently.

It's always been odd to me that TJ doesn't have a mechanism for returning kids to their base school for repeated or severe academic integrity violations.

They'll do it for kids who can't maintain a B average but not for kids who cheat over and over again.

FCPS should support the idea that TJ is a privilege that can be lost if you cheat. Would change a lot about that school's culture overnight.

This is a fantastic idea. This one change would have a ripple effect far beyond competitions. Would love to see this implemented.

Yep. One major infraction or two minor ones - gone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should have judges who do not have children at TJ or not participating in the Fair.

I was a judge a couple of years back and my child did not participate in the Fair ever. At that time, those I rated ended roughly what I expected.

This is how the vast majority of schools run their science fairs, from elementary to high school.

DP. I met a lot of parents that are good and moral - they wont sabotage some other kid for their kid to get ahead. They have a laid back attitude of "everything will work out" - I'm not going to be a model of cheating.

Then we have hundreds of Littlefingers in the county that will do what it takes. Trying to create a policy that doesn't accuse or target them is a bit hard. Kids watch kids of Littlefingers and see them unfairly get ahead - this causes an effect of: this is what I got to do to get ahead.

Agreed. It is just unfortunate that the new administration is putting increased value on awards and accolades, which means we'll see more of this kind of parent-engineering cheating. Unless the top supports ethics and sets clear boundaries and consequences, these parents will continue to teach their kids that cheating is okay.

Do you have any evidence that Mukai is not supporting ethical behavior?

Perhaps you can give examples of when Bonitatibus set these clear boundaries and consequences.

One major issue is that TJ does not have a school wide policy and consequence for academic integrity violations. They vary from CT to CT and each AP handles these cases differently.

It's always been odd to me that TJ doesn't have a mechanism for returning kids to their base school for repeated or severe academic integrity violations.

They'll do it for kids who can't maintain a B average but not for kids who cheat over and over again.

FCPS should support the idea that TJ is a privilege that can be lost if you cheat. Would change a lot about that school's culture overnight.

This is a fantastic idea. This one change would have a ripple effect far beyond competitions. Would love to see this implemented.

They probably considered it. But they'd have to have some kind of appeal process for students who are falsely accused of cheating by their rivals. And what about coordinated group cheating where only some of the group members are caught and the rest get away with it? A standard punishment has to be applied evenly and fairly and there can't be such an obvious incentive to falsely accuse peers. At TJ, if you could get a classmate kicked out by accusing them of cheating and faking evidence, false accusations would be rampant.

As far as science fair judging goes, they should recruit outside judges who have zero conflicts of interest. There must be plenty of STEM grad students who'd like to put science fair judging on their CV.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think false accusations would be rampant. I see TJ kids protecting their peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should have judges who do not have children at TJ or not participating in the Fair.

I was a judge a couple of years back and my child did not participate in the Fair ever. At that time, those I rated ended roughly what I expected.

This is how the vast majority of schools run their science fairs, from elementary to high school.

DP. I met a lot of parents that are good and moral - they wont sabotage some other kid for their kid to get ahead. They have a laid back attitude of "everything will work out" - I'm not going to be a model of cheating.

Then we have hundreds of Littlefingers in the county that will do what it takes. Trying to create a policy that doesn't accuse or target them is a bit hard. Kids watch kids of Littlefingers and see them unfairly get ahead - this causes an effect of: this is what I got to do to get ahead.

Agreed. It is just unfortunate that the new administration is putting increased value on awards and accolades, which means we'll see more of this kind of parent-engineering cheating. Unless the top supports ethics and sets clear boundaries and consequences, these parents will continue to teach their kids that cheating is okay.

Do you have any evidence that Mukai is not supporting ethical behavior?

Perhaps you can give examples of when Bonitatibus set these clear boundaries and consequences.

One major issue is that TJ does not have a school wide policy and consequence for academic integrity violations. They vary from CT to CT and each AP handles these cases differently.

It's always been odd to me that TJ doesn't have a mechanism for returning kids to their base school for repeated or severe academic integrity violations.

They'll do it for kids who can't maintain a B average but not for kids who cheat over and over again.

FCPS should support the idea that TJ is a privilege that can be lost if you cheat. Would change a lot about that school's culture overnight.

This is a fantastic idea. This one change would have a ripple effect far beyond competitions. Would love to see this implemented.

They probably considered it. But they'd have to have some kind of appeal process for students who are falsely accused of cheating by their rivals. And what about coordinated group cheating where only some of the group members are caught and the rest get away with it? A standard punishment has to be applied evenly and fairly and there can't be such an obvious incentive to falsely accuse peers. At TJ, if you could get a classmate kicked out by accusing them of cheating and faking evidence, false accusations would be rampant.

As far as science fair judging goes, they should recruit outside judges who have zero conflicts of interest. There must be plenty of STEM grad students who'd like to put science fair judging on their CV.

Realistically, most of the accusations of cheating that would result in dismissal would probably come either from classroom teachers or from students who have actual hard evidence. The dismissal sanction, where it's used in other academic environments, is usually successful in disincentivizing creativity in cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should have judges who do not have children at TJ or not participating in the Fair.

I was a judge a couple of years back and my child did not participate in the Fair ever. At that time, those I rated ended roughly what I expected.

This is how the vast majority of schools run their science fairs, from elementary to high school.

DP. I met a lot of parents that are good and moral - they wont sabotage some other kid for their kid to get ahead. They have a laid back attitude of "everything will work out" - I'm not going to be a model of cheating.

Then we have hundreds of Littlefingers in the county that will do what it takes. Trying to create a policy that doesn't accuse or target them is a bit hard. Kids watch kids of Littlefingers and see them unfairly get ahead - this causes an effect of: this is what I got to do to get ahead.

Agreed. It is just unfortunate that the new administration is putting increased value on awards and accolades, which means we'll see more of this kind of parent-engineering cheating. Unless the top supports ethics and sets clear boundaries and consequences, these parents will continue to teach their kids that cheating is okay.

Do you have any evidence that Mukai is not supporting ethical behavior?

Perhaps you can give examples of when Bonitatibus set these clear boundaries and consequences.

One major issue is that TJ does not have a school wide policy and consequence for academic integrity violations. They vary from CT to CT and each AP handles these cases differently.

It's always been odd to me that TJ doesn't have a mechanism for returning kids to their base school for repeated or severe academic integrity violations.

They'll do it for kids who can't maintain a B average but not for kids who cheat over and over again.

FCPS should support the idea that TJ is a privilege that can be lost if you cheat. Would change a lot about that school's culture overnight.

This is a fantastic idea. This one change would have a ripple effect far beyond competitions. Would love to see this implemented.

They probably considered it. But they'd have to have some kind of appeal process for students who are falsely accused of cheating by their rivals. And what about coordinated group cheating where only some of the group members are caught and the rest get away with it? A standard punishment has to be applied evenly and fairly and there can't be such an obvious incentive to falsely accuse peers. At TJ, if you could get a classmate kicked out by accusing them of cheating and faking evidence, false accusations would be rampant.

As far as science fair judging goes, they should recruit outside judges who have zero conflicts of interest. There must be plenty of STEM grad students who'd like to put science fair judging on their CV.

Realistically, most of the accusations of cheating that would result in dismissal would probably come either from classroom teachers or from students who have actual hard evidence. The dismissal sanction, where it's used in other academic environments, is usually successful in disincentivizing creativity in cheating.

It is also "non-lethal" enough that you don't have the same reluctance to use it. People will still fight it but there will be less reluctance to use it than a situation where it will effectively spell the end of their academic career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should have judges who do not have children at TJ or not participating in the Fair.

I was a judge a couple of years back and my child did not participate in the Fair ever. At that time, those I rated ended roughly what I expected.

This is how the vast majority of schools run their science fairs, from elementary to high school.

DP. I met a lot of parents that are good and moral - they wont sabotage some other kid for their kid to get ahead. They have a laid back attitude of "everything will work out" - I'm not going to be a model of cheating.

Then we have hundreds of Littlefingers in the county that will do what it takes. Trying to create a policy that doesn't accuse or target them is a bit hard. Kids watch kids of Littlefingers and see them unfairly get ahead - this causes an effect of: this is what I got to do to get ahead.

Agreed. It is just unfortunate that the new administration is putting increased value on awards and accolades, which means we'll see more of this kind of parent-engineering cheating. Unless the top supports ethics and sets clear boundaries and consequences, these parents will continue to teach their kids that cheating is okay.

Do you have any evidence that Mukai is not supporting ethical behavior?

Perhaps you can give examples of when Bonitatibus set these clear boundaries and consequences.

One major issue is that TJ does not have a school wide policy and consequence for academic integrity violations. They vary from CT to CT and each AP handles these cases differently.

It's always been odd to me that TJ doesn't have a mechanism for returning kids to their base school for repeated or severe academic integrity violations.

They'll do it for kids who can't maintain a B average but not for kids who cheat over and over again.

FCPS should support the idea that TJ is a privilege that can be lost if you cheat. Would change a lot about that school's culture overnight.

This is a fantastic idea. This one change would have a ripple effect far beyond competitions. Would love to see this implemented.

They probably considered it. But they'd have to have some kind of appeal process for students who are falsely accused of cheating by their rivals. And what about coordinated group cheating where only some of the group members are caught and the rest get away with it? A standard punishment has to be applied evenly and fairly and there can't be such an obvious incentive to falsely accuse peers. At TJ, if you could get a classmate kicked out by accusing them of cheating and faking evidence, false accusations would be rampant.

As far as science fair judging goes, they should recruit outside judges who have zero conflicts of interest. There must be plenty of STEM grad students who'd like to put science fair judging on their CV.

Realistically, most of the accusations of cheating that would result in dismissal would probably come either from classroom teachers or from students who have actual hard evidence. The dismissal sanction, where it's used in other academic environments, is usually successful in disincentivizing creativity in cheating.

It is also "non-lethal" enough that you don't have the same reluctance to use it. People will still fight it but there will be less reluctance to use it than a situation where it will effectively spell the end of their academic career.

Critical. It's not like they're not going to get a high school diploma. They're just not going to have access to the exceptional academic opportunity that they've abused.

Should be totally non-controversial because of this easy fallback option.