is 'quiet lunch' over accommodation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure, btw, it has zero to do with fear about "overaccommodating" and 100% to do with not having someone available to staff the quiet lunch.

100% this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a neurotypical teen who has never liked the extreme noise of cafeterias. DC regularly takes advantage of a quieter space in HS to eat lunch and get a few minutes to decompress. It’s not up to me to consider what is an appropriate accommodation for children with additional needs, but I wanted to chime in to say that this can be an issue for kids and adults of all ages to find that volume and chaos to be exhausting.

Bt definition, tour kid is not neurotypical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a neurotypical teen who has never liked the extreme noise of cafeterias. DC regularly takes advantage of a quieter space in HS to eat lunch and get a few minutes to decompress. It’s not up to me to consider what is an appropriate accommodation for children with additional needs, but I wanted to chime in to say that this can be an issue for kids and adults of all ages to find that volume and chaos to be exhausting.

Bt definition, tour kid is not neurotypical.

Huh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a neurotypical teen who has never liked the extreme noise of cafeterias. DC regularly takes advantage of a quieter space in HS to eat lunch and get a few minutes to decompress. It’s not up to me to consider what is an appropriate accommodation for children with additional needs, but I wanted to chime in to say that this can be an issue for kids and adults of all ages to find that volume and chaos to be exhausting.

Bt definition, tour kid is not neurotypical.

Oh FFS. Not wanting to be with 100+ noisy kids is not a special need. It's common sense. Very few adults would voluntarily choose this as a lunch setting. Because it's unpleasant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a neurotypical teen who has never liked the extreme noise of cafeterias. DC regularly takes advantage of a quieter space in HS to eat lunch and get a few minutes to decompress. It’s not up to me to consider what is an appropriate accommodation for children with additional needs, but I wanted to chime in to say that this can be an issue for kids and adults of all ages to find that volume and chaos to be exhausting.

Bt definition, tour kid is not neurotypical.

Oh FFS. Not wanting to be with 100+ noisy kids is not a special need. It's common sense. Very few adults would voluntarily choose this as a lunch setting. Because it's unpleasant.

I don’t like it either and I am NT. However, not liking it and not being able to tolerate it are two different things. For my ND child, it’s intolerable - painful - to point they shut down.

[Anonymous]

What’s kind of amusing about the school’s refusal to accommodate with quiet spaces is that at our very large public high school, everyone eats lunch at the same time. The cafeteria is too small to fit everyone, so kids are allowed to eat wherever they want inside or outside of the building and several teachers are known for opening their doors at lunch time for extra help or anyone who wants to eat in peace or doesn’t feel like they have a friend group to eat with.

In fact, this - small lunch rooms also facilitated student friendships, fostered academic interests by chatting with teachers, etc. so, it’s about more than “learning a skill”.

I think teachers opening their rooms for lunches started in middle school, but definitely common by high school, so I wonder why exactly it’s a skill to eat in a noisy place.

It’s sad that your school looks at this as “accommodating a disability that must be remediated” instead of recognizing that some neurodivergent brains work differently, have different environmental needs, socialize and make friends differently.

[Anonymous]

Really they just lied as a justification. They shouldn’t have. But it’s impossible for school to regularly provide a staff member for just 10 students for lunch. Staff deserve a lunch break too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Really they just lied as a justification. They shouldn’t have. But it’s impossible for school to regularly provide a staff member for just 10 students for lunch. Staff deserve a lunch break too.

And if it's a public school in Maryland, teachers are guaranteed a duty-free lunch by state law. I guess admin could ask them to supervise during student lunch, but then they'd have to provide an equivalent free period when the teacher is ostensibly needed to actually teach students, so it would just be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What’s kind of amusing about the school’s refusal to accommodate with quiet spaces is that at our very large public high school, everyone eats lunch at the same time. The cafeteria is too small to fit everyone, so kids are allowed to eat wherever they want inside or outside of the building and several teachers are known for opening their doors at lunch time for extra help or anyone who wants to eat in peace or doesn’t feel like they have a friend group to eat with.

In fact, this - small lunch rooms also facilitated student friendships, fostered academic interests by chatting with teachers, etc. so, it’s about more than “learning a skill”.

I think teachers opening their rooms for lunches started in middle school, but definitely common by high school, so I wonder why exactly it’s a skill to eat in a noisy place.

It’s sad that your school looks at this as “accommodating a disability that must be remediated” instead of recognizing that some neurodivergent brains work differently, have different environmental needs, socialize and make friends differently.

15 year olds don’t need the kind of supervision that 5 year olds need …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s kind of amusing about the school’s refusal to accommodate with quiet spaces is that at our very large public high school, everyone eats lunch at the same time. The cafeteria is too small to fit everyone, so kids are allowed to eat wherever they want inside or outside of the building and several teachers are known for opening their doors at lunch time for extra help or anyone who wants to eat in peace or doesn’t feel like they have a friend group to eat with.

In fact, this - small lunch rooms also facilitated student friendships, fostered academic interests by chatting with teachers, etc. so, it’s about more than “learning a skill”.

I think teachers opening their rooms for lunches started in middle school, but definitely common by high school, so I wonder why exactly it’s a skill to eat in a noisy place.

It’s sad that your school looks at this as “accommodating a disability that must be remediated” instead of recognizing that some neurodivergent brains work differently, have different environmental needs, socialize and make friends differently.

15 year olds don’t need the kind of supervision that 5 year olds need …

Agreed, but then the problem is not that "your DC needs to learn the skill of being in a noisy room" but rather "we don't have the staff to supervise an elementary lunch quiet space.

Schools don't want to say the latter because it is illegal to deny a "reasonable accommodation" for reasons that have to do with staffing or funding. And, the definition of "reasonable" does not involve a financial analysis of whether any extra resources must be spent to accommodate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s kind of amusing about the school’s refusal to accommodate with quiet spaces is that at our very large public high school, everyone eats lunch at the same time. The cafeteria is too small to fit everyone, so kids are allowed to eat wherever they want inside or outside of the building and several teachers are known for opening their doors at lunch time for extra help or anyone who wants to eat in peace or doesn’t feel like they have a friend group to eat with.

In fact, this - small lunch rooms also facilitated student friendships, fostered academic interests by chatting with teachers, etc. so, it’s about more than “learning a skill”.

I think teachers opening their rooms for lunches started in middle school, but definitely common by high school, so I wonder why exactly it’s a skill to eat in a noisy place.

It’s sad that your school looks at this as “accommodating a disability that must be remediated” instead of recognizing that some neurodivergent brains work differently, have different environmental needs, socialize and make friends differently.

15 year olds don’t need the kind of supervision that 5 year olds need …

Agreed, but then the problem is not that "your DC needs to learn the skill of being in a noisy room" but rather "we don't have the staff to supervise an elementary lunch quiet space.

Schools don't want to say the latter because it is illegal to deny a "reasonable accommodation" for reasons that have to do with staffing or funding. And, the definition of "reasonable" does not involve a financial analysis of whether any extra resources must be spent to accommodate.

If they are just dumping kids into regular lunch, that's one thing. But if they are really going to work to integrate kids into the main cafeteria, that is going to take staff time and not every kid is going to be successful.

This is such an interesting conversation because back when my middle child, who had an eating disorder, started school, he had a robust IEP with everything you could ask for except an eating related goal or accommodation. The view point way back when was that unless you could show that not eating and/or not being in the cafeteria environment would prevent my kid from being able to engage in school in the afternoon, they were not obligated to provide any sort of services during lunch. And, he never did get quiet lunch, lunch bunch or any other assistance. As others have said, it becomes moot once you hit middle school because you can go spend lunch in a classroom.

[Anonymous]

It's more like a quiet lunch option is an accommodation to benefit the kids in the cafeteria who for some reason cannot keep it down to a dull roar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not overaccommodation. In the real world, we can pick where we eat. I’m personally hearing impaired and can’t stand loud environments which make conversations difficult. Not to mention the din of background noise is amplified. I know NT introverts who also prefer quiet lunches. In MS, many kids choose to spend lunch in a quiet classroom and no formal accommodations are needed. I know lots of kids who chose the classroom option. At our HS, the kids can also choose where inside or outside to eat lunch. I suspect this is a staffing issue. If my child had a disability, I’d fight for the accommodation. If the school claims to want to address the root cause of needing the accommodation, they should create lunch bunch groups. Our ES had those with the school counselor.

In the real world of elementary school, kids actually can’t pick where they eat.

That’s true, but only goes so far. By MS, most schools allow kids to choose to eat out the cafeteria, so time alone will solve the “problem” completely.