In which NW DC neighborhoods do most (75%+) of ES-aged kids attend their in-bound public ES?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am surprised Maury isn’t on that list. I would have guessed its participation is much higher than those upper NW schools because very few in bounds for Maury go to private, and very few go to other DCPS. I would guess maybe Brent is the same way too (although probably not right now because of the swing space).

Actually, now that I think about it, could the calculation for Maury be skewed because of people departing for Latin and Basis in 5th, a dynamic that upper NW doesn’t have? I would bet Maury 4th grade and down is over 75%, easily.

Maury has a 70% IB participation rate with 83% of students IB. Other than the 5th grade factor, PK is competitive to the point that many IB families have to go OOB for PK.

[Anonymous]

Brent in Capitol Hill is very inbound heavy up until 5th. Then most people try to leave for charter schools although more and more are going to Stuart Hobson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am surprised Maury isn’t on that list. I would have guessed its participation is much higher than those upper NW schools because very few in bounds for Maury go to private, and very few go to other DCPS. I would guess maybe Brent is the same way too (although probably not right now because of the swing space).

Actually, now that I think about it, could the calculation for Maury be skewed because of people departing for Latin and Basis in 5th, a dynamic that upper NW doesn’t have? I would bet Maury 4th grade and down is over 75%, easily.

Maury has a 70% IB participation rate with 83% of students IB. Other than the 5th grade factor, PK is competitive to the point that many IB families have to go OOB for PK.

Forgot to add - I also think PK competitiveness comes out in the numbers more in Ward 6 than in Ward 3 because: 1) most of Ward 3 doesn't have PK3 and 2) when they lose the IB lottery, PK families in Ward 3 are much more likely to use community-based organization PK seats, which don't count as public school enrollment in this data, than go to a different DCPS or DCPCS school. There are way more community-based organizations in Ward 3 than in Ward 6.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Brent in Capitol Hill is very inbound heavy up until 5th. Then most people try to leave for charter schools although more and more are going to Stuart Hobson.

72% IB participation rate but only 60% of students are IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of us don't make much distinction between charter and public schools. They're all just schools.

A mistake, they are not the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of us don't make much distinction between charter and public schools. They're all just schools.

I live in the H Street area where there are many people who think this but don't realize their neighbors don't agree.

The degree to which people agree with this depends on (1) where they wound up in the lottery, especially in ECE when a lot of those early family bonds are formed, (2) how strong or weak their IB is, (3) how easily their kid makes friends which can depend on their kid's personality, athletic ability and other factors, and (4) the resources the family has for forging bonds with other families, which might include room to host other kids frequently, money to enroll their kid in activities where they make friends, or time to invest in making these bonds.

I have neighbors who think like you and are like "it's all good, the kids all play together!" regarding the mix of DCPS and charter families in the neighborhood. I also know families who feel that so many neighbors choosing charters or choosing to go OOB for school majorly detracts from their kids' social experience, especially in elementary grades.

I am in the middle. We have a poor IB school and had a bad experience there for ECE with my oldest, but then got into a great DCPS OOB for both kids when older was in 1st and youngest was in PK3 (one of the inherent advantages in the lottery of having multiple kids close in age). We've been really happy with our school community since then and are lucky that the DCPS we wound up at is walking distance so we get all the advantages of a great IB without having to be able to afford to live IB for it. But I also recall how lonely those first three years were with our oldest, how frustrating it was to listen to neighbors say stuff like "oh it's all good" when they'd talk about their great experience with a school they lotteried into elsewhere while privately we were struggling with our IB and desperately lotterying every year for a better situation but getting locked out.

Also, we are now years on from any of this (oldest is in MS at this point), and I will also say that as kids get older, they do NOT play with neighbor kids who go to other schools, unless they become friends through an activity. And kids cut down on activities as they get older to, it's not like with the little kids where everyone is doing soccer and ballet and the same nearby summer camps, etc. We have families who live within a block or two of us, with same age kids, and our kids never play together, even though back when they were much younger, we did regular playdates and playground meetups and our kids went to each other's birthday parties and all of it. Because they don't know each other at anymore, they have their own friends through school and activities, and their standards for what a "friend" is is much higher. Again, because we got lucky relatively early on with the lottery, this has worked out fine for my kids who have plenty of nearby friends through school. But for a family who gets stuck at their IB through 2nd or 3rd? It's brutal and there is resentment and I don't really blame them because that easily could have been us if we hadn't gotten lottery spots at a nearby school when we did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of us don't make much distinction between charter and public schools. They're all just schools.

A mistake, they are not the same.

PP here. That's not what I'm saying. Obviously every school is different, each with its own puts and takes and I think a lot of parents spend a lot of time comparing schools. But whether a school happens to be DCPS or a charter is not a particularly important factor for many to consider, I think. People are just looking for the best school for their kid. If you live west of the park, you know there are some truly terrible public schools. There are also charters I'd take in a heartbeat over any school west of the park. There's also everything variation in between.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Brent in Capitol Hill is very inbound heavy up until 5th. Then most people try to leave for charter schools although more and more are going to Stuart Hobson.

72% IB participation rate but only 60% of students are IB.

One thing to keep in mind at schools like Maury, Brent and L-T is that they're also drawing most of their OOB crowd from the Hill too. L-T has a bunch of kids from Watkins and JOW... Those kids mostly live much closer to L-T than a good chunk of the kids in NW live from their own school! So you get a lot of the large IB community benefits even though the kids are OOB.

[Anonymous]

^^ Sorry, somehow deleted Miner from my list. Lots of kids from Miner, JOW and Watkins IBs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's probably all the rich neighborhoods and all the poor neighborhoods, so Wards 3 and 7 and 8. In more heterogenous neighborhoods, like Ward 4, charters are more popular.

.

Not quite true.

In the rich neighborhoods, you'll find a lot of kids going to private school. Thats why schools like Hyde-Addison have so much room for OOB students.

Charters are also very popular in wards 7 and 8 -- not the bougie charters, but those that focus on helping lower-income families, like KIPP, DC Prep and DC Scholars. These are better options than DCPS in those neighborhoods (and have better outcomes).

How disingenuous.

Charters are successful because they get to play by a different set of rules -yet it’s funny that many still are bombs.

There’s:
Selection/attrition effects.
The "bundle" of practices - it's not the time, it's what they do with it (tutoring, high expectations, data-driven instruction, behavioral policies)
Self-selection of motivated families who navigate the lottery system
Greater school-level autonomy to make decisions
More resources from philanthropic funding beyond per-pupil public funding


DCPS is limited, charters expels kids at a much higher rate and actually fails students. DCPS isn’t allowed to. It’s almost like the mayor wants DCPS to fail but also wants to ensure only her biggest donors favorite charters succeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's probably all the rich neighborhoods and all the poor neighborhoods, so Wards 3 and 7 and 8. In more heterogenous neighborhoods, like Ward 4, charters are more popular.

.

Not quite true.

In the rich neighborhoods, you'll find a lot of kids going to private school. Thats why schools like Hyde-Addison have so much room for OOB students.

Charters are also very popular in wards 7 and 8 -- not the bougie charters, but those that focus on helping lower-income families, like KIPP, DC Prep and DC Scholars. These are better options than DCPS in those neighborhoods (and have better outcomes).

How disingenuous.

Charters are successful because they get to play by a different set of rules -yet it’s funny that many still are bombs.

There’s:
Selection/attrition effects.
The "bundle" of practices - it's not the time, it's what they do with it (tutoring, high expectations, data-driven instruction, behavioral policies)
Self-selection of motivated families who navigate the lottery system
Greater school-level autonomy to make decisions
More resources from philanthropic funding beyond per-pupil public funding


DCPS is limited, charters expels kids at a much higher rate and actually fails students. DCPS isn’t allowed to. It’s almost like the mayor wants DCPS to fail but also wants to ensure only her biggest donors favorite charters succeed.

I can’t tell what side of things people are on here. I think it’s a good thing that charters can kick kids out and fail them, DCPS should be able to do that too. I think DCPS has a lot more administrative accountability and therefore can move a lot faster when a school is cratering for administrative reasons, but can’t do as much when the kids are bad. Charters have more room to maneuver- great when you have an effective administration, but also not able to stop the bottom dropping out when things start getting bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of us don't make much distinction between charter and public schools. They're all just schools.

Well, it does change the vibe of the neighborhood when lots of neighbors go to school together -- the kids can walk to each others houses for playdates, etc.

The kids in our area all go to different schools. No one cares. They all play together.

This. Big mistake if you prioritize poor neighborhood schools over better schools. You will realize this sooner than later in upper elementary and upper. Kids don’t choose friends based on where they live. It’s not an issue when they can also take metro and get around by themselves. My DS started going on metro by himself to school in 6th.

No one is doing that. Most of the schools on the list the PP posted above with very high IB participation rates are the best schools in the city (Janney, Mann, etc).

The DCPS schools that are not that great don't have very high IB participation, so kids don't get that "walk to and from school with friends and go freely from house to house" thing.

Some circling logic here--the only reason these schools are "great" is they have a self-selected cohort of students from very well-off families that can pay to segregate themselves in specific neighborhoods to take advantage of geographic boundary preferences. Theses school would not be "great" for long if they didn't offer an in-boundary preference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of us don't make much distinction between charter and public schools. They're all just schools.

Well, it does change the vibe of the neighborhood when lots of neighbors go to school together -- the kids can walk to each others houses for playdates, etc.

The kids in our area all go to different schools. No one cares. They all play together.

This. Big mistake if you prioritize poor neighborhood schools over better schools. You will realize this sooner than later in upper elementary and upper. Kids don’t choose friends based on where they live. It’s not an issue when they can also take metro and get around by themselves. My DS started going on metro by himself to school in 6th.

No one is doing that. Most of the schools on the list the PP posted above with very high IB participation rates are the best schools in the city (Janney, Mann, etc).

The DCPS schools that are not that great don't have very high IB participation, so kids don't get that "walk to and from school with friends and go freely from house to house" thing.

Some circling logic here--the only reason these schools are "great" is they have a self-selected cohort of students from very well-off families that can pay to segregate themselves in specific neighborhoods to take advantage of geographic boundary preferences. Theses school would not be "great" for long if they didn't offer an in-boundary preference.

Not really. One of the biggest determinants of how well kids do is what the kids around them are doing. If they're in a class full of children working hard, they will likely work hard too. If they're in a class full of children who aren't working hard, they probably won't either. Peer pressure is powerful thing among children, and that can be bad and it can be good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of us don't make much distinction between charter and public schools. They're all just schools.

Well, it does change the vibe of the neighborhood when lots of neighbors go to school together -- the kids can walk to each others houses for playdates, etc.

The kids in our area all go to different schools. No one cares. They all play together.

This. Big mistake if you prioritize poor neighborhood schools over better schools. You will realize this sooner than later in upper elementary and upper. Kids don’t choose friends based on where they live. It’s not an issue when they can also take metro and get around by themselves. My DS started going on metro by himself to school in 6th.

No one is doing that. Most of the schools on the list the PP posted above with very high IB participation rates are the best schools in the city (Janney, Mann, etc).

The DCPS schools that are not that great don't have very high IB participation, so kids don't get that "walk to and from school with friends and go freely from house to house" thing.

Some circling logic here--the only reason these schools are "great" is they have a self-selected cohort of students from very well-off families that can pay to segregate themselves in specific neighborhoods to take advantage of geographic boundary preferences. Theses school would not be "great" for long if they didn't offer an in-boundary preference.

Not really. One of the biggest determinants of how well kids do is what the kids around them are doing. If they're in a class full of children working hard, they will likely work hard too. If they're in a class full of children who aren't working hard, they probably won't either. Peer pressure is powerful thing among children, and that can be bad and it can be good.

How is that different. If it is the cohort of kids and the resulting peer pressure that makes them perform better, then the school is not actually "great"-- teacher quality and curricula don't factor in much. The neighborhood is "great" not the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of us don't make much distinction between charter and public schools. They're all just schools.

I live in the H Street area where there are many people who think this but don't realize their neighbors don't agree.

The degree to which people agree with this depends on (1) where they wound up in the lottery, especially in ECE when a lot of those early family bonds are formed, (2) how strong or weak their IB is, (3) how easily their kid makes friends which can depend on their kid's personality, athletic ability and other factors, and (4) the resources the family has for forging bonds with other families, which might include room to host other kids frequently, money to enroll their kid in activities where they make friends, or time to invest in making these bonds.

I have neighbors who think like you and are like "it's all good, the kids all play together!" regarding the mix of DCPS and charter families in the neighborhood. I also know families who feel that so many neighbors choosing charters or choosing to go OOB for school majorly detracts from their kids' social experience, especially in elementary grades.

I am in the middle. We have a poor IB school and had a bad experience there for ECE with my oldest, but then got into a great DCPS OOB for both kids when older was in 1st and youngest was in PK3 (one of the inherent advantages in the lottery of having multiple kids close in age). We've been really happy with our school community since then and are lucky that the DCPS we wound up at is walking distance so we get all the advantages of a great IB without having to be able to afford to live IB for it. But I also recall how lonely those first three years were with our oldest, how frustrating it was to listen to neighbors say stuff like "oh it's all good" when they'd talk about their great experience with a school they lotteried into elsewhere while privately we were struggling with our IB and desperately lotterying every year for a better situation but getting locked out.

Also, we are now years on from any of this (oldest is in MS at this point), and I will also say that as kids get older, they do NOT play with neighbor kids who go to other schools, unless they become friends through an activity. And kids cut down on activities as they get older to, it's not like with the little kids where everyone is doing soccer and ballet and the same nearby summer camps, etc. We have families who live within a block or two of us, with same age kids, and our kids never play together, even though back when they were much younger, we did regular playdates and playground meetups and our kids went to each other's birthday parties and all of it. Because they don't know each other at anymore, they have their own friends through school and activities, and their standards for what a "friend" is is much higher. Again, because we got lucky relatively early on with the lottery, this has worked out fine for my kids who have plenty of nearby friends through school. But for a family who gets stuck at their IB through 2nd or 3rd? It's brutal and there is resentment and I don't really blame them because that easily could have been us if we hadn't gotten lottery spots at a nearby school when we did.

We live on the Hill. Older kid went to IB then went to a charter at 5th, younger went OOB to a different Hill school starting in 2nd grade, when lottery luck finally came our way. Younger kid is now in the same charter as older kid. Older kid is still friends with IB kids even though they all go to different schools. Younger kid is still friends with IB and OOB kids, even though all those friends also go to different schools.