Amherst College Paper Article on Athletic Recruiting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you really believe what the admissions office tells you, what they publish? I bet Amherst cooks the books better than Enron.

Of course, they all do. That is why there is so little transparency, just generalizations provided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also every so often these slac schools use sports to increase their chances of gettting a top student.

My kids has 1580 SAT, 4.7 GPA, and will have 15 AP courses after senior year. Great leadership in a few different other areas besides the sport. Great service. Definitely a narrative. Ivy legacy.

But the kid wants to play the sport so it is looking like NESCAC or UAA league as not good enough to play at the Ivy.

This happens, but I doubt that often. More anecdata: a student-athlete classmate was talking about their 32 ACT and 3s on AP exams, in the context of saying how well prepared they felt for Amherst. Shortly after, they dropped the upper-level science class both had signed up for. My kid was a little perplexed about how the classmate was admitted in the first place. I had to explain athletes aren't necessarily held to the same standard they were. This was not a FGLI or URM.

Yea, well, your kid needs to get over their jealousy or insecurity or whatever it is when it comes to athletes. There’s no shame in having to drop an “upper level science class” at any top school no matter what your ACT score is.

Yeah, meanwhile my 1570 DC with nearly perfect GPA, published researched (not canned), etc. got waitlisted.

Yes, that's not fair. I can see how PP with the high stats athlete could get in over your kid, but not the lower-stats one. There should be more transparency about the hard academic stats for admitted athletes. Let stakeholders see the actual extent to which admissions standards are, or are not, modified. Let's also see the data on game attendance and alumni donations. My guess is none will be impressive, but let the data prove me wrong!

Agree. If there is nothing to hide, simply provide the data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also every so often these slac schools use sports to increase their chances of gettting a top student.

My kids has 1580 SAT, 4.7 GPA, and will have 15 AP courses after senior year. Great leadership in a few different other areas besides the sport. Great service. Definitely a narrative. Ivy legacy.

But the kid wants to play the sport so it is looking like NESCAC or UAA league as not good enough to play at the Ivy.

This happens, but I doubt that often. More anecdata: a student-athlete classmate was talking about their 32 ACT and 3s on AP exams, in the context of saying how well prepared they felt for Amherst. Shortly after, they dropped the upper-level science class both had signed up for. My kid was a little perplexed about how the classmate was admitted in the first place. I had to explain athletes aren't necessarily held to the same standard they were. This was not a FGLI or URM.

Yea, well, your kid needs to get over their jealousy or insecurity or whatever it is when it comes to athletes. There’s no shame in having to drop an “upper level science class” at any top school no matter what your ACT score is.

Yeah, meanwhile my 1570 DC with nearly perfect GPA, published researched (not canned), etc. got waitlisted.

So what? That doesn't mean the 32 didn't deserve to get in.

[Anonymous]

It’s not like the schools don’t study this. At my HYP, I thought same thing re athletes. Now all these years later I see how successful they are in real world. They also tend to do more finance so have more resources l. They are happier alums as sport was fun or made for better spirit. They give more $. Turns out the real world also values things beyond modest differences in SAT scores and GPAs.

[Anonymous]

Everyone knows athletics translates to affirmative action for wealthy white kids. There is clear data here. All those screaming about race-based affirmative action should be screaming about this kind of affirmative action too, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also every so often these slac schools use sports to increase their chances of gettting a top student.

My kids has 1580 SAT, 4.7 GPA, and will have 15 AP courses after senior year. Great leadership in a few different other areas besides the sport. Great service. Definitely a narrative. Ivy legacy.

But the kid wants to play the sport so it is looking like NESCAC or UAA league as not good enough to play at the Ivy.

This happens, but I doubt that often. More anecdata: a student-athlete classmate was talking about their 32 ACT and 3s on AP exams, in the context of saying how well prepared they felt for Amherst. Shortly after, they dropped the upper-level science class both had signed up for. My kid was a little perplexed about how the classmate was admitted in the first place. I had to explain athletes aren't necessarily held to the same standard they were. This was not a FGLI or URM.

This didn't happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone knows athletics translates to affirmative action for wealthy white kids. There is clear data here. All those screaming about race-based affirmative action should be screaming about this kind of affirmative action too, right?

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also every so often these slac schools use sports to increase their chances of gettting a top student.

My kids has 1580 SAT, 4.7 GPA, and will have 15 AP courses after senior year. Great leadership in a few different other areas besides the sport. Great service. Definitely a narrative. Ivy legacy.

But the kid wants to play the sport so it is looking like NESCAC or UAA league as not good enough to play at the Ivy.

It’s rarer…understand the NESCAC and UAA coaches think the same as Ivy coaches. They want to win games and will probably use their influence on the 1350 kid they really want and may tell your kid they have a roster spot if they are accepted on their own.

It almost counts against you if you are too strong on your own.

This is not true. There are limits on the number of 'B' band and 'C' band athletes (2 per sport plus 14 more for football/lacrosse) which means that the majority of recruits are 'A' band which is 'stats above the class mean'. As a whole NESCAC athletes have higher average stats than the general class but people overlook that because of the bump given to a small number.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also every so often these slac schools use sports to increase their chances of gettting a top student.

My kids has 1580 SAT, 4.7 GPA, and will have 15 AP courses after senior year. Great leadership in a few different other areas besides the sport. Great service. Definitely a narrative. Ivy legacy.

But the kid wants to play the sport so it is looking like NESCAC or UAA league as not good enough to play at the Ivy.

It’s rarer…understand the NESCAC and UAA coaches think the same as Ivy coaches. They want to win games and will probably use their influence on the 1350 kid they really want and may tell your kid they have a roster spot if they are accepted on their own.

It almost counts against you if you are too strong on your own.

This is not true. There are limits on the number of 'B' band and 'C' band athletes (2 per sport plus 14 more for football/lacrosse) which means that the majority of recruits are 'A' band which is 'stats above the class mean'. As a whole NESCAC athletes have higher average stats than the general class but people overlook that because of the bump given to a small number.

Then schools should be willing to provide the hard data regarding their stats, correct?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also every so often these slac schools use sports to increase their chances of gettting a top student.

My kids has 1580 SAT, 4.7 GPA, and will have 15 AP courses after senior year. Great leadership in a few different other areas besides the sport. Great service. Definitely a narrative. Ivy legacy.

But the kid wants to play the sport so it is looking like NESCAC or UAA league as not good enough to play at the Ivy.

This happens, but I doubt that often. More anecdata: a student-athlete classmate was talking about their 32 ACT and 3s on AP exams, in the context of saying how well prepared they felt for Amherst. Shortly after, they dropped the upper-level science class both had signed up for. My kid was a little perplexed about how the classmate was admitted in the first place. I had to explain athletes aren't necessarily held to the same standard they were. This was not a FGLI or URM.

Yea, well, your kid needs to get over their jealousy or insecurity or whatever it is when it comes to athletes. There’s no shame in having to drop an “upper level science class” at any top school no matter what your ACT score is.

Yeah, meanwhile my 1570 DC with nearly perfect GPA, published researched (not canned), etc. got waitlisted.

So what? That doesn't mean the 32 didn't deserve to get in.

You mean the 32 who had "3s on AP exams" and "dropped the upper-level science class" they were taking? Yes, there is indeed a question of whether they deserve to get in over someone who has clearly demonstrated the ability to handle more academic rigor.

Amherst (like other elite colleges) presents a brand that their students are the intellectual cream of the crop. Cutting corners for the athletes undermines that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also every so often these slac schools use sports to increase their chances of gettting a top student.

My kids has 1580 SAT, 4.7 GPA, and will have 15 AP courses after senior year. Great leadership in a few different other areas besides the sport. Great service. Definitely a narrative. Ivy legacy.

But the kid wants to play the sport so it is looking like NESCAC or UAA league as not good enough to play at the Ivy.

This happens, but I doubt that often. More anecdata: a student-athlete classmate was talking about their 32 ACT and 3s on AP exams, in the context of saying how well prepared they felt for Amherst. Shortly after, they dropped the upper-level science class both had signed up for. My kid was a little perplexed about how the classmate was admitted in the first place. I had to explain athletes aren't necessarily held to the same standard they were. This was not a FGLI or URM.

Yea, well, your kid needs to get over their jealousy or insecurity or whatever it is when it comes to athletes. There’s no shame in having to drop an “upper level science class” at any top school no matter what your ACT score is.

Yeah, meanwhile my 1570 DC with nearly perfect GPA, published researched (not canned), etc. got waitlisted.

So what? That doesn't mean the 32 didn't deserve to get in.

You mean the 32 who had "3s on AP exams" and "dropped the upper-level science class" they were taking? Yes, there is indeed a question of whether they deserve to get in over someone who has clearly demonstrated the ability to handle more academic rigor.

Amherst (like other elite colleges) presents a brand that their students are the intellectual cream of the crop. Cutting corners for the athletes undermines that.

A 32 is the 97th percentile, and most colleges don't place a large emphasis on AP exam scores. Not to mention that I agree with the other poster that the athlete involved here didn't share his (or her) ACT and AP exam scores with the poster's kid in the first place and the poster is full of shit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article was anti recruiting athletes. As an experiment Amherst should just forgo recruiting athletes and fill all of their varsity sports with walk-ons. I suspect that they would lose very game, Donations would plummet, and school spirit would die.

There is no school spirit. Other than the Williams game, no one attends football games. The athletic department offers bribes to the first 100 students in attendance and they’ve never reached 100.

The athletic department bribes us to go to games???? Maybe I should start going...

Yeah, my kid wants to know more.

No more to know. Every game is free swag for the first 100 students. All you have to do is show up!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone knows athletics translates to affirmative action for wealthy white kids. There is clear data here. All those screaming about race-based affirmative action should be screaming about this kind of affirmative action too, right?

+1000

+1,000,000 Just read Malcolm Gladwell's "Revenge of the Tipping Point" for stories about this. The most telling was the tennis player from Holton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article was anti recruiting athletes. As an experiment Amherst should just forgo recruiting athletes and fill all of their varsity sports with walk-ons. I suspect that they would lose very game, Donations would plummet, and school spirit would die.

There is no school spirit. Other than the Williams game, no one attends football games. The athletic department offers bribes to the first 100 students in attendance and they’ve never reached 100.

The athletic department bribes us to go to games???? Maybe I should start going...

Yeah, my kid wants to know more.

No more to know. Every game is free swag for the first 100 students. All you have to do is show up!

Every athletics game, or just football?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also every so often these slac schools use sports to increase their chances of gettting a top student.

My kids has 1580 SAT, 4.7 GPA, and will have 15 AP courses after senior year. Great leadership in a few different other areas besides the sport. Great service. Definitely a narrative. Ivy legacy.

But the kid wants to play the sport so it is looking like NESCAC or UAA league as not good enough to play at the Ivy.

This happens, but I doubt that often. More anecdata: a student-athlete classmate was talking about their 32 ACT and 3s on AP exams, in the context of saying how well prepared they felt for Amherst. Shortly after, they dropped the upper-level science class both had signed up for. My kid was a little perplexed about how the classmate was admitted in the first place. I had to explain athletes aren't necessarily held to the same standard they were. This was not a FGLI or URM.

Yea, well, your kid needs to get over their jealousy or insecurity or whatever it is when it comes to athletes. There’s no shame in having to drop an “upper level science class” at any top school no matter what your ACT score is.

Yeah, meanwhile my 1570 DC with nearly perfect GPA, published researched (not canned), etc. got waitlisted.

So what? That doesn't mean the 32 didn't deserve to get in.

You mean the 32 who had "3s on AP exams" and "dropped the upper-level science class" they were taking? Yes, there is indeed a question of whether they deserve to get in over someone who has clearly demonstrated the ability to handle more academic rigor.

Amherst (like other elite colleges) presents a brand that their students are the intellectual cream of the crop. Cutting corners for the athletes undermines that.

The problem with affirmative action cuts across all categories. The students themselves are undermined, primarily due to the presumption they are less qualified. If Amherst would like to counter than presumption, which would be very beneficial to those students, they should provide the data, right?