The Dark Side of the Ivy League: Prestige & The Cost of Success

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do they talk about the Harvard and MIT kids that jump in front of trains around exam time?

Harvard kids do not — we have grade inflation, remember???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The real life hack is that, if you are smart, you can actually use these places to get an education rathe rthan just as a stepping stone to make more money. That can help you become a well-rounded, interesting, and ethical person. I appreciate that this is a minority interest these days, but something to bear in mind.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real life hack is that, if you are smart, you can actually use these places to get an education rathe rthan just as a stepping stone to make more money. That can help you become a well-rounded, interesting, and ethical person. I appreciate that this is a minority interest these days, but something to bear in mind.

I agree that for me anyway, that was the point, and well worth my while

This is how you end up with a PhD in Anthropology from Yale and a terrible $50k/year adjunct job at a state school.

Seriously. Who gives a shit about learning? Money is what's most important. Being "well-rounded" or "interesting" is not going to pay your mortgage.

Not you, I guess?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's very straightforward - you have to know what game you are playing. You may not know the players, the methods, or the how-to, but you should at least research the games and understand which one you plan to play with college and beyond.

Just a quick example, one of my kids played the GPA game - they declined a couple top 20 schools who did not offer aid and went to a top 50 with significant merit. My student's stats were well above the average GPA/SAT/ACT. It worked thank goodness. He crushed on GPA, clubs and MCAT and is in med school.

That is one of many games - but it helps to figure out which one you intend to play.

P.S. The terminal degree and profession are the things that stay with you, not the undergrad school if you move on to a grad degree. Just an example of a game feature to be aware of.

The networking is at the undergrad level primarily. Even legacy at the Ivies is for undergrad. And most kids at an Ivy can get a grad degree paid for. In many fields, it’s the undergrad degree that earns you top spots post-grad.

[Anonymous]

"The Dark Side..." oooh LMFAO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The real life hack is that, if you are smart, you can actually use these places to get an education rathe rthan just as a stepping stone to make more money. That can help you become a well-rounded, interesting, and ethical person. I appreciate that this is a minority interest these days, but something to bear in mind.

Yes. Do with this opportunity what you want to do with it. And what is wrong with getting an education in elitism while you are there?

If You turn down Harvard because you don't want to be exposed to elitism that is your decision but it certainly isn't going to make the elitism go away. Lots of kids in ivy League schools and many other schools get a good lesson in how to cope with elitism during college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real life hack is that, if you are smart, you can actually use these places to get an education rathe rthan just as a stepping stone to make more money. That can help you become a well-rounded, interesting, and ethical person. I appreciate that this is a minority interest these days, but something to bear in mind.

I agree that for me anyway, that was the point, and well worth my while

This is how you end up with a PhD in Anthropology from Yale and a terrible $50k/year adjunct job at a state school.

Seriously. Who gives a shit about learning? Money is what's most important. Being "well-rounded" or "interesting" is not going to pay your mortgage.

Not you, I guess?

Why send your kid to college at all. Just send them off to Palantir where they can make money as an 18 year old by exploiting all the data they got from Trump administration connections.

[Anonymous]

[youtube]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's very straightforward - you have to know what game you are playing. You may not know the players, the methods, or the how-to, but you should at least research the games and understand which one you plan to play with college and beyond.

Just a quick example, one of my kids played the GPA game - they declined a couple top 20 schools who did not offer aid and went to a top 50 with significant merit. My student's stats were well above the average GPA/SAT/ACT. It worked thank goodness. He crushed on GPA, clubs and MCAT and is in med school.

That is one of many games - but it helps to figure out which one you intend to play.

P.S. The terminal degree and profession are the things that stay with you, not the undergrad school if you move on to a grad degree. Just an example of a game feature to be aware of.

The networking is at the undergrad level primarily. Even legacy at the Ivies is for undergrad. And most kids at an Ivy can get a grad degree paid for. In many fields, it’s the undergrad degree that earns you top spots post-grad.

this 100x. the undergrad is key for unhooked super smart kids even more than for the hooked. Our family is seeing it play out firsthand with friends and relatives in the med school and law school app season last year and now. There is an unspoken boost based on who is getting secondaries, interviews, admission

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The real life hack is that, if you are smart, you can actually use these places to get an education rathe rthan just as a stepping stone to make more money. That can help you become a well-rounded, interesting, and ethical person. I appreciate that this is a minority interest these days, but something to bear in mind.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[youtube]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's very straightforward - you have to know what game you are playing. You may not know the players, the methods, or the how-to, but you should at least research the games and understand which one you plan to play with college and beyond.

Just a quick example, one of my kids played the GPA game - they declined a couple top 20 schools who did not offer aid and went to a top 50 with significant merit. My student's stats were well above the average GPA/SAT/ACT. It worked thank goodness. He crushed on GPA, clubs and MCAT and is in med school.

That is one of many games - but it helps to figure out which one you intend to play.

P.S. The terminal degree and profession are the things that stay with you, not the undergrad school if you move on to a grad degree. Just an example of a game feature to be aware of.

The networking is at the undergrad level primarily. Even legacy at the Ivies is for undergrad. And most kids at an Ivy can get a grad degree paid for. In many fields, it’s the undergrad degree that earns you top spots post-grad.

this 100x. the undergrad is key for unhooked super smart kids even more than for the hooked. Our family is seeing it play out firsthand with friends and relatives in the med school and law school app season last year and now. There is an unspoken boost based on who is getting secondaries, interviews, admission

This is not true, not for the super smart kids.

A 176 LSAT and a good GPA will get you into a good law school if you can cobble together a decent application and the on campus interviews are largely driven by Law school GPAs.

A 520+ on the MCAt with a transcript will get you into a good medical school and the residency matching system don't really give a FK about your country club

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real life hack is that, if you are smart, you can actually use these places to get an education rathe rthan just as a stepping stone to make more money. That can help you become a well-rounded, interesting, and ethical person. I appreciate that this is a minority interest these days, but something to bear in mind.

I agree that for me anyway, that was the point, and well worth my while

This is how you end up with a PhD in Anthropology from Yale and a terrible $50k/year adjunct job at a state school.

Seriously. Who gives a shit about learning? Money is what's most important. Being "well-rounded" or "interesting" is not going to pay your mortgage.

Not you, I guess?

DP.

Different people value different things but pretty much everyone values money.

Having been poor and wealthy, you are treated differently if you are wealthy. You don't even have to spend the money, you just have to have the money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[youtube]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's very straightforward - you have to know what game you are playing. You may not know the players, the methods, or the how-to, but you should at least research the games and understand which one you plan to play with college and beyond.

Just a quick example, one of my kids played the GPA game - they declined a couple top 20 schools who did not offer aid and went to a top 50 with significant merit. My student's stats were well above the average GPA/SAT/ACT. It worked thank goodness. He crushed on GPA, clubs and MCAT and is in med school.

That is one of many games - but it helps to figure out which one you intend to play.

P.S. The terminal degree and profession are the things that stay with you, not the undergrad school if you move on to a grad degree. Just an example of a game feature to be aware of.

The networking is at the undergrad level primarily. Even legacy at the Ivies is for undergrad. And most kids at an Ivy can get a grad degree paid for. In many fields, it’s the undergrad degree that earns you top spots post-grad.

this 100x. the undergrad is key for unhooked super smart kids even more than for the hooked. Our family is seeing it play out firsthand with friends and relatives in the med school and law school app season last year and now. There is an unspoken boost based on who is getting secondaries, interviews, admission

This is not true, not for the super smart kids.

A 176 LSAT and a good GPA will get you into a good law school if you can cobble together a decent application and the on campus interviews are largely driven by Law school GPAs.

A 520+ on the MCAt with a transcript will get you into a good medical school and the residency matching system don't really give a FK about your country club

First, 520 is much easier than a 176. 176 is truly rare. Though you are correct both, with a great GPA, will get you in to at least one law or one med, from almost any undergrad.
Of course the undergrad matters much less to the super-smart kid, the difference is for the average-ivy kid (99th%ile but not 99.9+) who will be pushed to their best by being at the ivy in the first place.
Most students even at ivy-level/T15 do not have 520+--that is usually the top 20% of premeds from T15s. The average is usually 517 there. The average student at an ivy-level, with 517 MCAT and a GPA of 3.7 which is avg or a little below average at top schools, will do much better than an above average, 3.9+, but not 520+ kid from a T50ish undergrad. The same with the 3.4 ivy kid with a 512 vs a 3.7/ 512 from a T50.
Furthermore, the 520+kid with the 3.9 at the ivy will likely have a resume with all the bells and whistles compared to 3.9/520 from the T50: clinicals at the ivy affiliated top med school, published research with known professors, extensive volunteering because that is the culture of premed there, and thus a much better chance at T20 med which matters for matching into many subspecialties.
Undergrad matters a ton despite DCUM racing to deny it.