Trust (Cost)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We spoke with a small law firm. Turns out we don't need a trust and can go the will route. Total price:

Last Will and Testament - $650
Power of Attorney (Couple) - $175
Medical Directive (Couple) - $175
Total Cost of Estate Plan - $1000

Yeah, most people with holdings like yours (one house, basic retirement accounts) don't need a trust. People on DCUM who respond to posts like this are disproportionally richer, with more complex holdings, so you will see more responses of people who should probably have a trust. Most people don't need one.

We have a NW of est $15M and our attorney continues to assure us we don't need a trust. The attorney is estate planning specialists, well regarded so we trust her.

Yeah I am neither a lawyer nor a financial planner, but my basic understanding is that it's not really about amounts, per se, that make a trust necessary, it's about complexity of assets (and estate taxes in different states). If you have homes in multiple states, have ownership shares of private companies, have significant physical assets (say expensive art, jewelry), those sorts of circumstances make a trust a good idea- again, generally speaking.

Feels like some people end up with a trust because of a lawyer trying to boost their billable hours, or because they like the "idea" of a having a trust. It somehow can feel prestigious or something.

That's quite a crock of bs.

Wills are public. I can write to the county where anyone died and request a copy of their will. There are companies that buy probate filings and then [/b]harass the family[b]. You will find people who barely knew your dearly departed coming to you saying they were promised things.

Can you give a specific example of someone who has been substantively harassed through this path? Other than say a single letter?

This feels like a very very low likelihood of this sort of thing being a real problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We spoke with a small law firm. Turns out we don't need a trust and can go the will route. Total price:

Last Will and Testament - $650
Power of Attorney (Couple) - $175
Medical Directive (Couple) - $175
Total Cost of Estate Plan - $1000

Yeah, most people with holdings like yours (one house, basic retirement accounts) don't need a trust. People on DCUM who respond to posts like this are disproportionally richer, with more complex holdings, so you will see more responses of people who should probably have a trust. Most people don't need one.

We have a NW of est $15M and our attorney continues to assure us we don't need a trust. The attorney is estate planning specialists, well regarded so we trust her.

This board is very anti-trust. If you want to your kids to deal with probate and have creditors or spouses come after them then you do you.

Why would someone with $15 million have creditors? And avoiding probate is very simple with things like setting up beneficiaries for your accounts. If you want a trust, go for it! As stated above, for most people with adult children and basic asset types, it's not necessary.

You do know probate costs $$. It's a percentage of your estate, depending on what state you live in around 4-7%. Does PP want to lose $750K and the time to do probate. I like to do a cost benefit analysis, including time, so for me a trust is the clear winner.

Most of the “cost” of probate is fees that the executor can seek so if a relative in the executor you are just moving money from the estate to them.

Also the question isn’t “should there be a trust to hold money for the benefit of my minor dependents”— anyone can protect their kids that way.

The question (for purposes of this discussion) is “should I set up a trust while I am living or do I only need it once I pass”.

You think the state is doing that for free? Also, what is the downside to someone with $15M spending $5K to set up a revocable trust?

[Anonymous]

Some people are talked into one, or don't know enough to know they really don't need one. It sounds important, they think, so they are steered in that direction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We spoke with a small law firm. Turns out we don't need a trust and can go the will route. Total price:

Last Will and Testament - $650
Power of Attorney (Couple) - $175
Medical Directive (Couple) - $175
Total Cost of Estate Plan - $1000

Yeah, most people with holdings like yours (one house, basic retirement accounts) don't need a trust. People on DCUM who respond to posts like this are disproportionally richer, with more complex holdings, so you will see more responses of people who should probably have a trust. Most people don't need one.

We have a NW of est $15M and our attorney continues to assure us we don't need a trust. The attorney is estate planning specialists, well regarded so we trust her.

Yeah I am neither a lawyer nor a financial planner, but my basic understanding is that it's not really about amounts, per se, that make a trust necessary, it's about complexity of assets (and estate taxes in different states). If you have homes in multiple states, have ownership shares of private companies, have significant physical assets (say expensive art, jewelry), those sorts of circumstances make a trust a good idea- again, generally speaking.

Feels like some people end up with a trust because of a lawyer trying to boost their billable hours, or because they like the "idea" of a having a trust. It somehow can feel prestigious or something.

That's quite a crock of bs.

Wills are public. I can write to the county where anyone died and request a copy of their will. There are companies that buy probate filings and then [/b]harass the family[b]. You will find people who barely knew your dearly departed coming to you saying they were promised things.

Can you give a specific example of someone who has been substantively harassed through this path? Other than say a single letter?

This feels like a very very low likelihood of this sort of thing being a real problem.

DP. I haven’t heard of that scenario but people are absolutely going around and putting conservatorships on people in Florida and taking everything they own.

These aren’t the worst stories.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/11/04/florida-guardianship-investigation-safeguards/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We spoke with a small law firm. Turns out we don't need a trust and can go the will route. Total price:

Last Will and Testament - $650
Power of Attorney (Couple) - $175
Medical Directive (Couple) - $175
Total Cost of Estate Plan - $1000

Yeah, most people with holdings like yours (one house, basic retirement accounts) don't need a trust. People on DCUM who respond to posts like this are disproportionally richer, with more complex holdings, so you will see more responses of people who should probably have a trust. Most people don't need one.

We have a NW of est $15M and our attorney continues to assure us we don't need a trust. The attorney is estate planning specialists, well regarded so we trust her.

Yeah I am neither a lawyer nor a financial planner, but my basic understanding is that it's not really about amounts, per se, that make a trust necessary, it's about complexity of assets (and estate taxes in different states). If you have homes in multiple states, have ownership shares of private companies, have significant physical assets (say expensive art, jewelry), those sorts of circumstances make a trust a good idea- again, generally speaking.

Feels like some people end up with a trust because of a lawyer trying to boost their billable hours, or because they like the "idea" of a having a trust. It somehow can feel prestigious or something.

That's quite a crock of bs.

Wills are public. I can write to the county where anyone died and request a copy of their will. There are companies that buy probate filings and then [/b]harass the family[b]. You will find people who barely knew your dearly departed coming to you saying they were promised things.

Can you give a specific example of someone who has been substantively harassed through this path? Other than say a single letter?

This feels like a very very low likelihood of this sort of thing being a real problem.

DP. I haven’t heard of that scenario but people are absolutely going around and putting conservatorships on people in Florida and taking everything they own.

These aren’t the worst stories.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/11/04/florida-guardianship-investigation-safeguards/

Right, this I am aware of, but it isn't related to wills/trusts, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We spoke with a small law firm. Turns out we don't need a trust and can go the will route. Total price:

Last Will and Testament - $650
Power of Attorney (Couple) - $175
Medical Directive (Couple) - $175
Total Cost of Estate Plan - $1000

Yeah, most people with holdings like yours (one house, basic retirement accounts) don't need a trust. People on DCUM who respond to posts like this are disproportionally richer, with more complex holdings, so you will see more responses of people who should probably have a trust. Most people don't need one.

We have a NW of est $15M and our attorney continues to assure us we don't need a trust. The attorney is estate planning specialists, well regarded so we trust her.

Yeah I am neither a lawyer nor a financial planner, but my basic understanding is that it's not really about amounts, per se, that make a trust necessary, it's about complexity of assets (and estate taxes in different states). If you have homes in multiple states, have ownership shares of private companies, have significant physical assets (say expensive art, jewelry), those sorts of circumstances make a trust a good idea- again, generally speaking.

Feels like some people end up with a trust because of a lawyer trying to boost their billable hours, or because they like the "idea" of a having a trust. It somehow can feel prestigious or something.

That's quite a crock of bs.

Wills are public. I can write to the county where anyone died and request a copy of their will. There are companies that buy probate filings and then [/b]harass the family[b]. You will find people who barely knew your dearly departed coming to you saying they were promised things.

Can you give a specific example of someone who has been substantively harassed through this path? Other than say a single letter?

This feels like a very very low likelihood of this sort of thing being a real problem.

DP. I haven’t heard of that scenario but people are absolutely going around and putting conservatorships on people in Florida and taking everything they own.

These aren’t the worst stories.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/11/04/florida-guardianship-investigation-safeguards/

Right, this I am aware of, but it isn't related to wills/trusts, etc.

Well, a 10 second Google turned up this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/EstatePlanning/comments/160f12c/home_in_probategetting_random_texts/

[Anonymous]

And, of course the scammers come out. That was my broader point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We spoke with a small law firm. Turns out we don't need a trust and can go the will route. Total price:

Last Will and Testament - $650
Power of Attorney (Couple) - $175
Medical Directive (Couple) - $175
Total Cost of Estate Plan - $1000

Yeah, most people with holdings like yours (one house, basic retirement accounts) don't need a trust. People on DCUM who respond to posts like this are disproportionally richer, with more complex holdings, so you will see more responses of people who should probably have a trust. Most people don't need one.

We have a NW of est $15M and our attorney continues to assure us we don't need a trust. The attorney is estate planning specialists, well regarded so we trust her.

Yeah I am neither a lawyer nor a financial planner, but my basic understanding is that it's not really about amounts, per se, that make a trust necessary, it's about complexity of assets (and estate taxes in different states). If you have homes in multiple states, have ownership shares of private companies, have significant physical assets (say expensive art, jewelry), those sorts of circumstances make a trust a good idea- again, generally speaking.

Feels like some people end up with a trust because of a lawyer trying to boost their billable hours, or because they like the "idea" of a having a trust. It somehow can feel prestigious or something.

That's quite a crock of bs.

Wills are public. I can write to the county where anyone died and request a copy of their will. There are companies that buy probate filings and then [/b]harass the family[b]. You will find people who barely knew your dearly departed coming to you saying they were promised things.

Can you give a specific example of someone who has been substantively harassed through this path? Other than say a single letter?

This feels like a very very low likelihood of this sort of thing being a real problem.

DP. I haven’t heard of that scenario but people are absolutely going around and putting conservatorships on people in Florida and taking everything they own.

These aren’t the worst stories.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/11/04/florida-guardianship-investigation-safeguards/

Right, this I am aware of, but it isn't related to wills/trusts, etc.

Well, a 10 second Google turned up this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/EstatePlanning/comments/160f12c/home_in_probategetting_random_texts/

I truly hate America in 2025, that this kind of thing isn't better prevented by basic laws. I will note I get periodic similar calls/texts even though we have owned our home for 10 years and done zero public records changes. This stuff can be very annoying, absolutely, but not sure I would spend $5k to make sure my kids don't have to block annoying texts/calls.

But a valid point!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We spoke with a small law firm. Turns out we don't need a trust and can go the will route. Total price:

Last Will and Testament - $650
Power of Attorney (Couple) - $175
Medical Directive (Couple) - $175
Total Cost of Estate Plan - $1000

Yeah, most people with holdings like yours (one house, basic retirement accounts) don't need a trust. People on DCUM who respond to posts like this are disproportionally richer, with more complex holdings, so you will see more responses of people who should probably have a trust. Most people don't need one.

We have a NW of est $15M and our attorney continues to assure us we don't need a trust. The attorney is estate planning specialists, well regarded so we trust her.

Yeah I am neither a lawyer nor a financial planner, but my basic understanding is that it's not really about amounts, per se, that make a trust necessary, it's about complexity of assets (and estate taxes in different states). If you have homes in multiple states, have ownership shares of private companies, have significant physical assets (say expensive art, jewelry), those sorts of circumstances make a trust a good idea- again, generally speaking.

Feels like some people end up with a trust because of a lawyer trying to boost their billable hours, or because they like the "idea" of a having a trust. It somehow can feel prestigious or something.

That's quite a crock of bs.

Wills are public. I can write to the county where anyone died and request a copy of their will. There are companies that buy probate filings and then [/b]harass the family[b]. You will find people who barely knew your dearly departed coming to you saying they were promised things.

Can you give a specific example of someone who has been substantively harassed through this path? Other than say a single letter?

This feels like a very very low likelihood of this sort of thing being a real problem.

DP. I haven’t heard of that scenario but people are absolutely going around and putting conservatorships on people in Florida and taking everything they own.

These aren’t the worst stories.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/11/04/florida-guardianship-investigation-safeguards/

Right, this I am aware of, but it isn't related to wills/trusts, etc.

Well, a 10 second Google turned up this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/EstatePlanning/comments/160f12c/home_in_probategetting_random_texts/

I truly hate America in 2025, that this kind of thing isn't better prevented by basic laws. I will note I get periodic similar calls/texts even though we have owned our home for 10 years and done zero public records changes. This stuff can be very annoying, absolutely, but not sure I would spend $5k to make sure my kids don't have to block annoying texts/calls.

But a valid point!

Also, so, so Florida. A state built on a foundation of swamps and scams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We spoke with a small law firm. Turns out we don't need a trust and can go the will route. Total price:

Last Will and Testament - $650
Power of Attorney (Couple) - $175
Medical Directive (Couple) - $175
Total Cost of Estate Plan - $1000

Yeah, most people with holdings like yours (one house, basic retirement accounts) don't need a trust. People on DCUM who respond to posts like this are disproportionally richer, with more complex holdings, so you will see more responses of people who should probably have a trust. Most people don't need one.

We have a NW of est $15M and our attorney continues to assure us we don't need a trust. The attorney is estate planning specialists, well regarded so we trust her.

Yeah I am neither a lawyer nor a financial planner, but my basic understanding is that it's not really about amounts, per se, that make a trust necessary, it's about complexity of assets (and estate taxes in different states). If you have homes in multiple states, have ownership shares of private companies, have significant physical assets (say expensive art, jewelry), those sorts of circumstances make a trust a good idea- again, generally speaking.

Feels like some people end up with a trust because of a lawyer trying to boost their billable hours, or because they like the "idea" of a having a trust. It somehow can feel prestigious or something.

People who have all of these assets you list and are high NW wouldn't be concerned about the cost to establish instruments to protect them so much. Clearly OP isn't as loaded to have to worry about spending extra few thousands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP--

One reason I want a trust is to use it to "hold" the money I receive from my parents. If I die before DH, I don't want the new wife to get the money that I want to go to my children.

The way to keep this money separate from married/joint funds is to keep it in a trust. DH is fine with this approach.

It's common for men to remarry after their wives die and not to take care of protecting their children financially. Dementia can happen, etc. New wife does not need the money my parents worked so hard to save...

Yes this. It's to help protect your current family's assets. You may die and your DH remarries, and you want that money in the trust, not his new wife's divorce settlement. Or when he dies, straight into her account for HER kids.

The trust is to protect your children.

Makes sense. Some of this can be accomplished outside of a trust. Like, our house of course passes to my spouse, as I believe a house should in almost all cases. Current 401k goes to spouse by law. Kids have 529 plans that wouldn't go to spouse. Kids have small UTMA accounts that wouldn't go to spouse. I also have some separate investment accounts; kids are beneficiaries, not spouse. In our case, my spouse has plenty of money and doesn't need all of mine if I die first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We spoke with a small law firm. Turns out we don't need a trust and can go the will route. Total price:

Last Will and Testament - $650
Power of Attorney (Couple) - $175
Medical Directive (Couple) - $175
Total Cost of Estate Plan - $1000

Yeah, most people with holdings like yours (one house, basic retirement accounts) don't need a trust. People on DCUM who respond to posts like this are disproportionally richer, with more complex holdings, so you will see more responses of people who should probably have a trust. Most people don't need one.

We have a NW of est $15M and our attorney continues to assure us we don't need a trust. The attorney is estate planning specialists, well regarded so we trust her.

This board is very anti-trust. If you want to your kids to deal with probate and have creditors or spouses come after them then you do you.

Why would someone with $15 million have creditors? And avoiding probate is very simple with things like setting up beneficiaries for your accounts. If you want a trust, go for it! As stated above, for most people with adult children and basic asset types, it's not necessary.

You do know probate costs $$. It's a percentage of your estate, depending on what state you live in around 4-7%. Does PP want to lose $750K and the time to do probate. I like to do a cost benefit analysis, including time, so for me a trust is the clear winner.

Most of the “cost” of probate is fees that the executor can seek so if a relative in the executor you are just moving money from the estate to them.

Also the question isn’t “should there be a trust to hold money for the benefit of my minor dependents”— anyone can protect their kids that way.

The question (for purposes of this discussion) is “should I set up a trust while I am living or do I only need it once I pass”.

You think the state is doing that for free? Also, what is the downside to someone with $15M spending $5K to set up a revocable trust?

Probate fees are scaled— for example an estate of $1 million - $2.5 million in the probate estate (say the house but not retirement accounts with a beneficiary) would be $2000. That’s not free but it’s 0.08%, not 4-7%.

One downside of revocable trusts are that you have to title things in the name of the trust which can be a pain (and slow down refinancing a mortgage, for example), but if you don’t do it then there’s no point to the trust.

If you have $15 million by all means talk to your lawyer and decide what’s right for you but be clear that any advice you offer is intended for people who have $15 m and don’t mind spending extra and doing more paperwork now to avoid paperwork later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We spoke with a small law firm. Turns out we don't need a trust and can go the will route. Total price:

Last Will and Testament - $650
Power of Attorney (Couple) - $175
Medical Directive (Couple) - $175
Total Cost of Estate Plan - $1000

Yeah, most people with holdings like yours (one house, basic retirement accounts) don't need a trust. People on DCUM who respond to posts like this are disproportionally richer, with more complex holdings, so you will see more responses of people who should probably have a trust. Most people don't need one.

We have a NW of est $15M and our attorney continues to assure us we don't need a trust. The attorney is estate planning specialists, well regarded so we trust her.

This board is very anti-trust. If you want to your kids to deal with probate and have creditors or spouses come after them then you do you.

Why would someone with $15 million have creditors? And avoiding probate is very simple with things like setting up beneficiaries for your accounts. If you want a trust, go for it! As stated above, for most people with adult children and basic asset types, it's not necessary.

You do know probate costs $$. It's a percentage of your estate, depending on what state you live in around 4-7%. Does PP want to lose $750K and the time to do probate. I like to do a cost benefit analysis, including time, so for me a trust is the clear winner.

Most of the “cost” of probate is fees that the executor can seek so if a relative in the executor you are just moving money from the estate to them.

Also the question isn’t “should there be a trust to hold money for the benefit of my minor dependents”— anyone can protect their kids that way.

The question (for purposes of this discussion) is “should I set up a trust while I am living or do I only need it once I pass”.

You think the state is doing that for free? Also, what is the downside to someone with $15M spending $5K to set up a revocable trust?

Probate fees are scaled— for example an estate of $1 million - $2.5 million in the probate estate (say the house but not retirement accounts with a beneficiary) would be $2000. That’s not free but it’s 0.08%, not 4-7%.

One downside of revocable trusts are that you have to title things in the name of the trust which can be a pain (and slow down refinancing a mortgage, for example), but if you don’t do it then there’s no point to the trust.

If you have $15 million by all means talk to your lawyer and decide what’s right for you but be clear that any advice you offer is intended for people who have $15 m and don’t mind spending extra and doing more paperwork now to avoid paperwork later.

When my father passed unexpectedly few years back, there was no trust but a will. I handled the probate process (my mother is still around) and while it took close to a year it was nothing as bad as people make it. Fairfax County has a process which assists people with probate. I was able to complete everything with zero help from an attorney. If you can read and follow instructions, it’s nothing really. Only patience required. Btw, my father had a primary residence, rental properties, stocks, 401k, Roth - the whole fix. County fees were very minimal that everyone can afford. It’s not that bad really.

[Anonymous]

Likely unpopular opinion: I am generally quite risk averse but my wife and I choose not to have a will/trust at this time. We are both youngish and in good health. Everything of note is in each other's name. We find the very small chance of both of us unexpectedly dying at the same time is not worth the expense and effort of setting up a will where all of our assets will still go to the same parties as the legal default (i.e. our kids).

That being said, if either of us developed a terminal condition or one of us died unexpectedly, we would immediately set up a trust for our kids. Also when we get older with substantially more assets we will also be setting up a trust.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We spoke with a small law firm. Turns out we don't need a trust and can go the will route. Total price:

Last Will and Testament - $650
Power of Attorney (Couple) - $175
Medical Directive (Couple) - $175
Total Cost of Estate Plan - $1000

Yeah, most people with holdings like yours (one house, basic retirement accounts) don't need a trust. People on DCUM who respond to posts like this are disproportionally richer, with more complex holdings, so you will see more responses of people who should probably have a trust. Most people don't need one.

We have a NW of est $15M and our attorney continues to assure us we don't need a trust. The attorney is estate planning specialists, well regarded so we trust her.

This board is very anti-trust. If you want to your kids to deal with probate and have creditors or spouses come after them then you do you.

Why would someone with $15 million have creditors? And avoiding probate is very simple with things like setting up beneficiaries for your accounts. If you want a trust, go for it! As stated above, for most people with adult children and basic asset types, it's not necessary.

You do know probate costs $$. It's a percentage of your estate, depending on what state you live in around 4-7%. Does PP want to lose $750K and the time to do probate. I like to do a cost benefit analysis, including time, so for me a trust is the clear winner.

Most of the “cost” of probate is fees that the executor can seek so if a relative in the executor you are just moving money from the estate to them.

Also the question isn’t “should there be a trust to hold money for the benefit of my minor dependents”— anyone can protect their kids that way.

The question (for purposes of this discussion) is “should I set up a trust while I am living or do I only need it once I pass”.

You think the state is doing that for free? Also, what is the downside to someone with $15M spending $5K to set up a revocable trust?

Probate fees are scaled— for example an estate of $1 million - $2.5 million in the probate estate (say the house but not retirement accounts with a beneficiary) would be $2000. That’s not free but it’s 0.08%, not 4-7%.

One downside of revocable trusts are that you have to title things in the name of the trust which can be a pain (and slow down refinancing a mortgage, for example), but if you don’t do it then there’s no point to the trust.

If you have $15 million by all means talk to your lawyer and decide what’s right for you but be clear that any advice you offer is intended for people who have $15 m and don’t mind spending extra and doing more paperwork now to avoid paperwork later.

How is this a downside? People here are claiming the only way out of probate is a Transfer of Deed, which people could also screw up and "is a pain." And, if you change your beneficiaries, you'd have to re-record it.

So bizarre. This is definitely a hot-bottom issue for DCUM, which is odd because everyone here suddenly has $15M.