Nursing home kicked out my FIL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The nursing home did the right thing as it has a duty to protect its patients/residents and workers from violence.

No they didn't. That was just the easiest thing for them. They needed to find an alternative placement. He can't be home. That's not safe for him or his family.

Why is that their responsibility, and not the family's?

They are a licensed care facility and are responsible for caring for him until another more suitable placement can be found. There are options like putting an alarm on his door or adjusting medications that can be used until he can be relocated to a more appropriate facility. (Though he should also be evaluated to see if this outburst was caused by medicine or illness and can be treated.)

The facility presumably has 24/7 staff who are accountable for care of the residents. This is far, far more resources than any family has available. If he's not safe in a fully staffed facility, then there is no way it's safe for him to be sent home. And the facility knows this.

This really doesn't matter. He needs a memory care facility, and it doesn't sound like he was in one. That the current (or rather, former) facility has more resources than the family is immaterial. They are responsible for the health and safety of the other residents, and their staff members.

But, you didn't answer the question - why is it the responsibility of the former facility, not the family, to find him an appropriate placement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The nursing home did the right thing as it has a duty to protect its patients/residents and workers from violence.

No they didn't. That was just the easiest thing for them. They needed to find an alternative placement. He can't be home. That's not safe for him or his family.

Why is that their responsibility, and not the family's?

They are a licensed care facility and are responsible for caring for him until another more suitable placement can be found. There are options like putting an alarm on his door or adjusting medications that can be used until he can be relocated to a more appropriate facility. (Though he should also be evaluated to see if this outburst was caused by medicine or illness and can be treated.)

The facility presumably has 24/7 staff who are accountable for care of the residents. This is far, far more resources than any family has available. If he's not safe in a fully staffed facility, then there is no way it's safe for him to be sent home. And the facility knows this.

This really doesn't matter. He needs a memory care facility, and it doesn't sound like he was in one. That the current (or rather, former) facility has more resources than the family is immaterial. They are responsible for the health and safety of the other residents, and their staff members.

But, you didn't answer the question - why is it the responsibility of the former facility, not the family, to find him an appropriate placement?

Exactly this. We get it's stressful, OP, but come one. He was not in the correct facility for his needs and had become a danger to others. The nursing home was not going to keep him, regardless.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like he would have been in memory care but even in memory care these things happen.

[Anonymous]

The problem is the pendulum has swing too far in not allowing nursing homes to medicate and if needed restrain elderly violent dementia patients.

If a person with dementia refuses medication you can’t coerce or force can’t person who has the mind of a toddler to take that medication.

Nursing homes cant use bed rails so an agitated elderly person can get out of bed at night, restraints cant be used and they can’t lock a resident in their room or use a baby gate.

This leads to other residents and staff being regularly assaulted

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem is the pendulum has swing too far in not allowing nursing homes to medicate and if needed restrain elderly violent dementia patients.

If a person with dementia refuses medication you can’t coerce or force can’t person who has the mind of a toddler to take that medication.

Nursing homes cant use bed rails so an agitated elderly person can get out of bed at night, restraints cant be used and they can’t lock a resident in their room or use a baby gate.

This leads to other residents and staff being regularly assaulted

Some don't even allow for a bed alarm which would at least alert staff that someone was getting out of bed. When it got to the point of needing to place my dad in one (he unfortunately got violent when he was confused/scared and it wasn't safe for my mom or for him to be in a house with little kids who are unpredictable) I was surprised by how many places said they don't use bed alarms. I asked how they would know if my dad got out of his room and wandered somewhere he wasn't supposed to go and they couldn't give me anything beyond a vague "we will keep an eye on him".

I don't blame the staff. I work in healthcare and know how horribly understaffed those places are. Administration is to blame

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like he would have been in memory care but even in memory care these things happen.

Due to ongoing medical issues he has, none of the memory care facilities with openings would take him. Some of those concerns have been resolved recently (catheter) and his funds are such that he could cover it for a while, but not indefinitely (which may be okay). The family is revisiting memory care but still has the concern he could be kicked out of those facilities due to his medical issues.

[Anonymous]

In your case I would use a geriatric manager to help. Sounds like there are a lot of complex issues and you need a pro to help with next steps.

FWIW I had a family member who needed skilled nursing related to a catheter and they came to memory care to manage it. Later the hospice took over the skilled nursing related to the catheter.

Sometimes with medical stuff, it's not worth it anymore. If he is late stage, may be worth focusing on comfort and not treating a lot of medical conditions. Definitely try to push for hospice and making him comfortable. Also memory care might be more willing to accept a patient who is on hospice because the hospice can help manage medications and other things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like he would have been in memory care but even in memory care these things happen.

Due to ongoing medical issues he has, none of the memory care facilities with openings would take him. Some of those concerns have been resolved recently (catheter) and his funds are such that he could cover it for a while, but not indefinitely (which may be okay). The family is revisiting memory care but still has the concern he could be kicked out of those facilities due to his medical issues.

He needs to be in memory care.

[Anonymous]

Ask the doctor to sedate him so he is docile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The mistake was actually picking him up from the nursing home. If you had refused to pick him up they would have found another place.

Unfortunately the sibling who was there didn’t call anyone until it was done. They may have panicked and thought they had no other options, but it took me a 30 second google search to see they can’t just kick you out. My suggestion was the ER also like the next PP. My SO is dropping everything and going there tomorrow because it’s obviously too much for the younger sibling to manage on their own. - OP

I don't think I saw any posts about this, but has anyone gone over the contract that you signed when he moved to the facility? The should be a section about situations where a person could be evicted, if they need to give notice, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They need to take him to ER for whatever and refuse to pick him up on the basis of not being able to provide the level of care he needs. They’ll face a lot of pressure and guilt tripping but that’s the only way unfortunately

The hospital is not a long-term care facility and he won’t be admitted. They will send him home.

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately, he needs to be medicated, which can cause extreme drowsiness, etc - but his agitation would likely decrease.