Are you happy with your kid’s English/writing instruction?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public elementary - was not happy, except with the first grade teacher who of her own initiative taught herself how to teach phonics. She was awesome. Other than that, the kids were given sub-standard, non-evidence based language arts instruction.

Private elementary - much happier. The official curriculum is in some ways not much better than public (there's still too much Lucy Calkins influence), but it includes explicit teaching of spelling, grammar, and how to structure a paragraph. There are whole class novels. There are five paragraph essays.

Private middle - quite happy, backfilled a lot of gaps created in public elementary.

But this is the stereotype about public v. private these days, of course. Private will teach your kid to read and write. Public won't. But public high school will generally have better STEM education simply by having higher numbers of kids who are prepared for it, except when compared to the most high achieving, hard-to-get-into privates.

How important is it to have top notch STEM though? I keep hearing AI and international talents are filling in the tech and science sectors. Isn’t it better going forward to have kids competent in Calc level math and Biology/Chem/Physics and be able to write and think critically, versus not being able to read full books or write well but able to code a game or build a robot?

Good question. The skills that give someone an advantage with large language models are literacy and critical thinking not STEM.

That's the huge irony. LLM's (ie: AI) take the STEM out of tech.

Have you ever seen an AI lab research scientist opening ask for an English PhD?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am finally thrilled this year (4th grade). The teacher is very old school and experienced, and happens to have been an English major. All the basic fundamentals are finally being covered. Grammar, spelling, reading comprehension, proof reading...

How old is the teacher? My worry is that this kind of teacher (old school, traditional, love of English) is dying out. Most teachers teaching K-5 right now were going through college or getting their ED degree in the Balanced Literacy / Workshop + EdTech way of teaching, not grammar, spelling, reading actual books kind of teaching.

The teachers following their school’s “EdTech / Balanced Literacy / whole language” progressive curricula are doing a massive disservice to our children.

How massive? - many graduate HS without being able to read:


https://www.newsweek.com/how-did-honors-student-who-says-she-cant-read-write-get-college-2038026

Teachers don’t do this in DCUM world and if they do, tell the reading specialist.

"Hey reading specialist, I don't like how little grammar and direct writing instruction my child is getting. Fix it!"

???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a middle school and high schooler, public school. Yes, instruction in writing is practically non existent until AP English.

I don’t understand posts like this. I believe you, but my question is how it’s possible? And how do students suddenly catch up or keep up in 10th or 11th, while also prepping for SATs and writing college apps? Because I’m assuming at least SOME kids are receiving some kind of writing instruction earlier than that (through tutors, better school curriculum, etc), wouldn’t they have a huge leg up?

I don't get it either. If students aren't writing, and they're not reading books, what do they actually do all day?

I know what they do (screens, group "work," SEL, "skills based work and assessments"), but I want to know how does this lead to top high school and college students? My area touts the public high schools as among the top 1000 public high schools in the country, but how can this be true if the kids are on Chromebooks for much of the day and not actually reading full books or writing essays until 10th grade?

The top students ARE reading and writing. We are in DCPS public and my highly academic MS student reads and writes extensively. We limit screens and fight the school on screen-based work (which is easy to do in elementary -- just say no to any homework on screens, they can't do anything about it and won't if your kid is above grade level in everything). A lot of the reading is on her own but we help guide what she reads and also encourage heavier engagement with the books we especially want to expose her to (like she read Little Women on her own, and then we watched the movie, and then she voluntarily did some writing when I suggested she create a newspaper like the one the girls created in the book).

We have her do a creative writing camp every summer. She's also done journalism and creative writing clubs during the school year.

In other words, we emphasize it and encourage it and we remove the biggest obstacle to it (screens, including a personal phone or tablet device, and all social media).

I am a writer. This matters to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a middle school and high schooler, public school. Yes, instruction in writing is practically non existent until AP English.

I don’t understand posts like this. I believe you, but my question is how it’s possible? And how do students suddenly catch up or keep up in 10th or 11th, while also prepping for SATs and writing college apps? Because I’m assuming at least SOME kids are receiving some kind of writing instruction earlier than that (through tutors, better school curriculum, etc), wouldn’t they have a huge leg up?

I don't get it either. If students aren't writing, and they're not reading books, what do they actually do all day?

I know what they do (screens, group "work," SEL, "skills based work and assessments"), but I want to know how does this lead to top high school and college students? My area touts the public high schools as among the top 1000 public high schools in the country, but how can this be true if the kids are on Chromebooks for much of the day and not actually reading full books or writing essays until 10th grade?

The top students ARE reading and writing. We are in DCPS public and my highly academic MS student reads and writes extensively. We limit screens and fight the school on screen-based work (which is easy to do in elementary -- just say no to any homework on screens, they can't do anything about it and won't if your kid is above grade level in everything). A lot of the reading is on her own but we help guide what she reads and also encourage heavier engagement with the books we especially want to expose her to (like she read Little Women on her own, and then we watched the movie, and then she voluntarily did some writing when I suggested she create a newspaper like the one the girls created in the book).

We have her do a creative writing camp every summer. She's also done journalism and creative writing clubs during the school year.

In other words, we emphasize it and encourage it and we remove the biggest obstacle to it (screens, including a personal phone or tablet device, and all social media).

I am a writer. This matters to me.

Most do not have any homework at all. The screen problem in K-2 isn’t related to homework at all. It’s the hours the spend on screens at school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a middle school and high schooler, public school. Yes, instruction in writing is practically non existent until AP English.

I don’t understand posts like this. I believe you, but my question is how it’s possible? And how do students suddenly catch up or keep up in 10th or 11th, while also prepping for SATs and writing college apps? Because I’m assuming at least SOME kids are receiving some kind of writing instruction earlier than that (through tutors, better school curriculum, etc), wouldn’t they have a huge leg up?

I don't get it either. If students aren't writing, and they're not reading books, what do they actually do all day?

I know what they do (screens, group "work," SEL, "skills based work and assessments"), but I want to know how does this lead to top high school and college students? My area touts the public high schools as among the top 1000 public high schools in the country, but how can this be true if the kids are on Chromebooks for much of the day and not actually reading full books or writing essays until 10th grade?

The top students ARE reading and writing. We are in DCPS public and my highly academic MS student reads and writes extensively. We limit screens and fight the school on screen-based work (which is easy to do in elementary -- just say no to any homework on screens, they can't do anything about it and won't if your kid is above grade level in everything). A lot of the reading is on her own but we help guide what she reads and also encourage heavier engagement with the books we especially want to expose her to (like she read Little Women on her own, and then we watched the movie, and then she voluntarily did some writing when I suggested she create a newspaper like the one the girls created in the book).

We have her do a creative writing camp every summer. She's also done journalism and creative writing clubs during the school year.

In other words, we emphasize it and encourage it and we remove the biggest obstacle to it (screens, including a personal phone or tablet device, and all social media).

I am a writer. This matters to me.

Which creative writing camps? I am resigned to having to supplement bc I don’t think DCPS is teaching enough of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a middle school and high schooler, public school. Yes, instruction in writing is practically non existent until AP English.

I don’t understand posts like this. I believe you, but my question is how it’s possible? And how do students suddenly catch up or keep up in 10th or 11th, while also prepping for SATs and writing college apps? Because I’m assuming at least SOME kids are receiving some kind of writing instruction earlier than that (through tutors, better school curriculum, etc), wouldn’t they have a huge leg up?

I don't get it either. If students aren't writing, and they're not reading books, what do they actually do all day?

I know what they do (screens, group "work," SEL, "skills based work and assessments"), but I want to know how does this lead to top high school and college students? My area touts the public high schools as among the top 1000 public high schools in the country, but how can this be true if the kids are on Chromebooks for much of the day and not actually reading full books or writing essays until 10th grade?

The top students ARE reading and writing. We are in DCPS public and my highly academic MS student reads and writes extensively. We limit screens and fight the school on screen-based work (which is easy to do in elementary -- just say no to any homework on screens, they can't do anything about it and won't if your kid is above grade level in everything). A lot of the reading is on her own but we help guide what she reads and also encourage heavier engagement with the books we especially want to expose her to (like she read Little Women on her own, and then we watched the movie, and then she voluntarily did some writing when I suggested she create a newspaper like the one the girls created in the book).

We have her do a creative writing camp every summer. She's also done journalism and creative writing clubs during the school year.

In other words, we emphasize it and encourage it and we remove the biggest obstacle to it (screens, including a personal phone or tablet device, and all social media).

I am a writer. This matters to me.

How do you keep teachers from scolding your kids for not doing their homework?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am finally thrilled this year (4th grade). The teacher is very old school and experienced, and happens to have been an English major. All the basic fundamentals are finally being covered. Grammar, spelling, reading comprehension, proof reading...

How old is the teacher? My worry is that this kind of teacher (old school, traditional, love of English) is dying out. Most teachers teaching K-5 right now were going through college or getting their ED degree in the Balanced Literacy / Workshop + EdTech way of teaching, not grammar, spelling, reading actual books kind of teaching.

You are right. She is probably mid to late 50s. My kid has generally had younger teachers up until now, and this is the first time he has had this type of direct instruction. Everyone else just seemed to phone it in.

what does ‘phone it in’ mean?

https://grammarist.com/idiom/phone-it-in/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a middle school and high schooler, public school. Yes, instruction in writing is practically non existent until AP English.

I don’t understand posts like this. I believe you, but my question is how it’s possible? And how do students suddenly catch up or keep up in 10th or 11th, while also prepping for SATs and writing college apps? Because I’m assuming at least SOME kids are receiving some kind of writing instruction earlier than that (through tutors, better school curriculum, etc), wouldn’t they have a huge leg up?

I don't get it either. If students aren't writing, and they're not reading books, what do they actually do all day?

I know what they do (screens, group "work," SEL, "skills based work and assessments"), but I want to know how does this lead to top high school and college students? My area touts the public high schools as among the top 1000 public high schools in the country, but how can this be true if the kids are on Chromebooks for much of the day and not actually reading full books or writing essays until 10th grade?

what school is this? Our kids had to write paragraphs and essays since first grade and onward due to the stupid Calkins writing workshop. Our kids also have to read chapter books in book groups since fourth grade. They also read the boring 2 page passages with SOL questions afterward. So they do get reading and writing, but the writing instruction didn’t become structured and formal until 7th grade. And, they missed learning formal grammar so were not taught parts of speech and sentence diagramming. It’s a hodge podge and poorly taught English. —FCPS parent who has supplemented for a decade

Sentence diagramming?? I don't think that's been commonly taught in public schools in several decades. Parts of speech they will learn when they learn foreign language.

Not necessarily. Grammar is on the outs everywhere trendy, even for foreign languages that desperately require it. I was helping a cousin in LCPS with her Latin homework. Brilliant child, now working for a company that attracts brilliant people. Anyway, I asked her what noun declension she was on. "What's a noun?" she asked. At that point, she was midway through freshman year.

I supplemented my own kids until I threw my hands in the air and just sent them to a religious private that provides thorough grammar instruction, amongst other pleasant features.

I don’t believe the average high schooler doesn’t know what a noun is. It is the easiest part of the sentence. A person, place or thing. Your cousin obviously uses proper sentence structure, she was after all hired by a company that only hires brilliant people. She must have forgot the word. It’s the most basic of grammar terms but I get it. I can never remember the definition of adverb but I use adverbs.

Name one school that doesn’t teach the definitions of nouns, proper nouns that are capitalized, adjectives, etc.

[Anonymous]

RVA suburban public school.

Early elementary (K-2) -- now more than 10 years ago -- was excellent.

Youngest is now a senior and, of the seven different teachers both DCs had at the HS level, only one was awful (to the point he was 'reassigned' the very next year). The others were all above average or downright excellent. These were all honors or dual-enrollment offerings.

It was VERY disappointing during grades 3-7, probably when they might have needed it the most. Oddly enough, they did enough 'writing' in other classes, with teachers who did grade for grammar, spelling, and composition, that they muddled through. We also added on when/where we could. We were disgusted with the lack of any effort to actually increase vocabulary. But I kinda get it; there are sooooo many kids who aren't even at grade-level that that's where teachers and resources go. Not saying it's right, just that it's so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a middle school and high schooler, public school. Yes, instruction in writing is practically non existent until AP English.

I don’t understand posts like this. I believe you, but my question is how it’s possible? And how do students suddenly catch up or keep up in 10th or 11th, while also prepping for SATs and writing college apps? Because I’m assuming at least SOME kids are receiving some kind of writing instruction earlier than that (through tutors, better school curriculum, etc), wouldn’t they have a huge leg up?

I don't get it either. If students aren't writing, and they're not reading books, what do they actually do all day?

I know what they do (screens, group "work," SEL, "skills based work and assessments"), but I want to know how does this lead to top high school and college students? My area touts the public high schools as among the top 1000 public high schools in the country, but how can this be true if the kids are on Chromebooks for much of the day and not actually reading full books or writing essays until 10th grade?

what school is this? Our kids had to write paragraphs and essays since first grade and onward due to the stupid Calkins writing workshop. Our kids also have to read chapter books in book groups since fourth grade. They also read the boring 2 page passages with SOL questions afterward. So they do get reading and writing, but the writing instruction didn’t become structured and formal until 7th grade. And, they missed learning formal grammar so were not taught parts of speech and sentence diagramming. It’s a hodge podge and poorly taught English. —FCPS parent who has supplemented for a decade

Sentence diagramming?? I don't think that's been commonly taught in public schools in several decades. Parts of speech they will learn when they learn foreign language.

Not necessarily. Grammar is on the outs everywhere trendy, even for foreign languages that desperately require it. I was helping a cousin in LCPS with her Latin homework. Brilliant child, now working for a company that attracts brilliant people. Anyway, I asked her what noun declension she was on. "What's a noun?" she asked. At that point, she was midway through freshman year.

I supplemented my own kids until I threw my hands in the air and just sent them to a religious private that provides thorough grammar instruction, amongst other pleasant features.

I don’t believe the average high schooler doesn’t know what a noun is. It is the easiest part of the sentence. A person, place or thing. Your cousin obviously uses proper sentence structure, she was after all hired by a company that only hires brilliant people. She must have forgot the word. It’s the most basic of grammar terms but I get it. I can never remember the definition of adverb but I use adverbs.

Name one school that doesn’t teach the definitions of nouns, proper nouns that are capitalized, adjectives, etc.

While I'll agree that the average HS student knows what a noun "is," knowing how to identify it in a sentence and using proper subject/verb agreement can be sketchy. I'm a PP and our DC now volunteers/tutors in a Writing Center established by one of those excellent teachers and even she is shocked at who comes in and just how much help they actually need. They are hooked on tools like spell-checkers, Grammarly, and ChatGPT. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for using those tools once you know how to do it yourself and evaluate the tool's response.

What also makes me sad is how poorly the kids even speak. Pronunciation and diction are fast becoming lost arts or get you called out for acting white or being uppity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a middle school and high schooler, public school. Yes, instruction in writing is practically non existent until AP English.

I don’t understand posts like this. I believe you, but my question is how it’s possible? And how do students suddenly catch up or keep up in 10th or 11th, while also prepping for SATs and writing college apps? Because I’m assuming at least SOME kids are receiving some kind of writing instruction earlier than that (through tutors, better school curriculum, etc), wouldn’t they have a huge leg up?

I don't get it either. If students aren't writing, and they're not reading books, what do they actually do all day?

I know what they do (screens, group "work," SEL, "skills based work and assessments"), but I want to know how does this lead to top high school and college students? My area touts the public high schools as among the top 1000 public high schools in the country, but how can this be true if the kids are on Chromebooks for much of the day and not actually reading full books or writing essays until 10th grade?

what school is this? Our kids had to write paragraphs and essays since first grade and onward due to the stupid Calkins writing workshop. Our kids also have to read chapter books in book groups since fourth grade. They also read the boring 2 page passages with SOL questions afterward. So they do get reading and writing, but the writing instruction didn’t become structured and formal until 7th grade. And, they missed learning formal grammar so were not taught parts of speech and sentence diagramming. It’s a hodge podge and poorly taught English. —FCPS parent who has supplemented for a decade

Sentence diagramming?? I don't think that's been commonly taught in public schools in several decades. Parts of speech they will learn when they learn foreign language.

Not necessarily. Grammar is on the outs everywhere trendy, even for foreign languages that desperately require it. I was helping a cousin in LCPS with her Latin homework. Brilliant child, now working for a company that attracts brilliant people. Anyway, I asked her what noun declension she was on. "What's a noun?" she asked. At that point, she was midway through freshman year.

I supplemented my own kids until I threw my hands in the air and just sent them to a religious private that provides thorough grammar instruction, amongst other pleasant features.

I don’t believe the average high schooler doesn’t know what a noun is. It is the easiest part of the sentence. A person, place or thing. Your cousin obviously uses proper sentence structure, she was after all hired by a company that only hires brilliant people. She must have forgot the word. It’s the most basic of grammar terms but I get it. I can never remember the definition of adverb but I use adverbs.

Name one school that doesn’t teach the definitions of nouns, proper nouns that are capitalized, adjectives, etc.

I believe it. In my teens 9th grade honors English, the teacher specifically wrote in the syllabus all sentences were required to have capitalization and punctuation. She then had to (re)teach the class how to use capitalization and end punctuation.

[Anonymous]

In private and happy as MS student reads literature for class, has been taught annotation skills, regularly writes essays, and is learning grammar in multiple languages. She reads independently on her own a lot and many of her peers do too. We still go to the library or bookstore on weekends as a family activity. This is a habit we have reinforced since she was young and will continue to do.

[Anonymous]

For the people who say they fight screenbased work… how, exactly? You just tell the teacher any screen based homework won’t be completed? Demand that in-class work be done on paper when all the other kids are on the iPad? I fought this fight for awhile and ended up just switching to private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m concerned my kid is not going to read enough books for school or learn how to write with proper form and grammar the way things are headed with curriculum these days. They have the interest and aptitude to achieve much more than this (avid reader in free time, far above grade level in ELA currently, enjoys creative writing). Are you happy with what your middle or high schooler is learning in these areas, are they being challenged, and if so, where are they in school?

No. We are in FCPS and it has been horrible for all the years we have been here, They are not teaching writing. They expect the kids to know how to write by HS I'm assuming by osmosis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Actually fairly happy from a writing standpoint. Kid has learned full grammar (parts of speech, sentence composition), etymology (root words), and written 5 paragraph essays since 3rd grade. He’s now in 6th.

Less happy from a reading perspective. He no longer enjoys reading because it’s all short snippets instead of fun novels.

FCPS

Why can’t he read fun novels at home? Our kids read full books starting in 2nd grade. That’s when they all start to read the same book.