Why aren't you able to live within your means?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have written about my financial regrets on kids sports threads, but since this is anonymous, here we go. My daughter's figure skating was oppressively expensive. As in thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars in ice time, coaching, off ice, travel, dresses, skates ($1800 per pair and replaced at least 2x per year), etc. I never added it up because it was so much but at one point we were in very bad debt.

She got sick with several autoimmune diseases and had to stop skating, and we are finally trying to get our heads above water. We live in a townhouse, drive old cars, etc., but we made many financially irrational decisions because my kid was talented and dreamed about the Olympics.

Genuinely curious how you could not "add it all up"? Anyone who does a bit of searching knows figure skating is literally one of the most expensive Extra curricular? I simply don't understand how you can spend $25K+ per year (that is likely low) and not be aware of it.


Then again, perhaps this is how UMC+ people end up in major debt. And nope, I would never put my family into debt to help a kid pursue the olympics. Simply not a smart choice on so many levels

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think people have kids or adopt pets without realizing the financial commitment is beyond their means. Once you have them you can't get them off your budget.

Seriously, how does one not 95% understand the potential costs associated with either kids or a pet.

I get some feel it will never be a good time to financially have kids, but at least make an effort to get your finances in order before you add a kid to the mix, because it certainly wont get any easier

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When DH and I were dating he had no concept of budget. He spent a lot when he got paid and couldn’t make it last until the next paycheck. No one ever told him about saving. He had been deprived of a lot growing up and REALLY liked to buy things. Lots of reasons. He’s a saver now but if I hadn’t intervened and brought some financial literacy into his life, he’d probably be in a ton of debt and made years of bad financial decisions.

Usually when people grow up poor, they prefer to save money so that they always have some when they really need it.

One of his siblings did (almost to an unhealthy degree). The others inherited their parents feast-or-famine mentality. They can’t save because they spend as they get it.

Yes, I think it’s complicated and may play out either way. When you grow up poor and made to feel embarrassed there is a tendency to want to save to not have the life you had in childhood. But, also a tendency to not ever again want to look or feel poor. When you work hard to get out of poverty you want to give your family what you did not have — I guess the opposite of all the trust fund posters who rave about really old cars, sweaters with holes, etc.

So one might save responsibly for retirement, college, etc. not overspend egregiously, but certainly could be more frugal. It’s a balance.

It is definately a balance. We can spend on whatever we want and be fine, we are at that level. However, our years of being fiscally smart make us still consider researching and deciding what we will pay for and what we wont. If moving our flights by a day or two on either side (we are retired in our early 50s) can save us $$$, we do that. Similarly, I"m searching for the best deal on a great or luxury hotel. But we have limits. While I might spend $1000+ for a luxury beach vacation hotel per night, I'm not inclined to spend that much while in a major city in Europe, where I'm hardly at the hotel. So I'm searching for the best deal that meets our minimum standards. Sure I can afford the $1K room, but why if I'm not at the hotel to enjoy the room or the amenities of the hotel (luxury beach vacation I'm purchasing the location/restaurants/pool/beachaccess/etc for that hotel along with the room---in Paris, I'm purchasing location and quality for the $$$).

[Anonymous]

People grow up with a certain standard of living and they don’t think twice about having the thing or service that they grew up having, because they think it’s a basic necessity. For example, cable TV. You don’t need cable TV anymore. But a lot of folks still subscribe to it… and they also subscribe to many of the streaming services (Netflix, Disney, Amazon, Hulu, etc.). The costs just keep adding up but they don’t think it’s possible to cut back because they think they need it all.

There are a lot of things that my family does not have that both my DH and I grew up with. But we are okay with that. We question every purchase, and as a result, we can comfortably retire early with kids still in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People grow up with a certain standard of living and they don’t think twice about having the thing or service that they grew up having, because they think it’s a basic necessity. For example, cable TV. You don’t need cable TV anymore. But a lot of folks still subscribe to it… and they also subscribe to many of the streaming services (Netflix, Disney, Amazon, Hulu, etc.). The costs just keep adding up but they don’t think it’s possible to cut back because they think they need it all.

There are a lot of things that my family does not have that both my DH and I grew up with. But we are okay with that. We question every purchase, and as a result, we can comfortably retire early with kids still in school.

Exactly! And most kids need to realize that what they had growing up, well their parents likely did NOT have that at age 22. So they need to realize that you must earn the nicer things in life. And that your chance of successfully having those "nicer things" is much higher if you live within your means and save to achieve it, do work to advance your career (classes/degrees/whatever it takes to advance) if you want more of those nicer things. but you earn them first, then spend the $

[Anonymous]

Why? I'm a single parent and my ex won't help pay for college for my DD. Even with FA, it's a LOT of money. The cost keeps going up every year and even with loans, it's very tight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When DH and I were dating he had no concept of budget. He spent a lot when he got paid and couldn’t make it last until the next paycheck. No one ever told him about saving. He had been deprived of a lot growing up and REALLY liked to buy things. Lots of reasons. He’s a saver now but if I hadn’t intervened and brought some financial literacy into his life, he’d probably be in a ton of debt and made years of bad financial decisions.

Usually when people grow up poor, they prefer to save money so that they always have some when they really need it.

One of his siblings did (almost to an unhealthy degree). The others inherited their parents feast-or-famine mentality. They can’t save because they spend as they get it.

Yes, I think it’s complicated and may play out either way. When you grow up poor and made to feel embarrassed there is a tendency to want to save to not have the life you had in childhood. But, also a tendency to not ever again want to look or feel poor. When you work hard to get out of poverty you want to give your family what you did not have — I guess the opposite of all the trust fund posters who rave about really old cars, sweaters with holes, etc.

So one might save responsibly for retirement, college, etc. not overspend egregiously, but certainly could be more frugal. It’s a balance.

It is definately a balance. We can spend on whatever we want and be fine, we are at that level. However, our years of being fiscally smart make us still consider researching and deciding what we will pay for and what we wont. If moving our flights by a day or two on either side (we are retired in our early 50s) can save us $$$, we do that. Similarly, I"m searching for the best deal on a great or luxury hotel. But we have limits. While I might spend $1000+ for a luxury beach vacation hotel per night, I'm not inclined to spend that much while in a major city in Europe, where I'm hardly at the hotel. So I'm searching for the best deal that meets our minimum standards. Sure I can afford the $1K room, but why if I'm not at the hotel to enjoy the room or the amenities of the hotel (luxury beach vacation I'm purchasing the location/restaurants/pool/beachaccess/etc for that hotel along with the room---in Paris, I'm purchasing location and quality for the $$$).

You are a humble braggart. And btw, you have significantly more options when both you and spouse retired such as moving your flight back or forth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have written about my financial regrets on kids sports threads, but since this is anonymous, here we go. My daughter's figure skating was oppressively expensive. As in thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars in ice time, coaching, off ice, travel, dresses, skates ($1800 per pair and replaced at least 2x per year), etc. I never added it up because it was so much but at one point we were in very bad debt.

She got sick with several autoimmune diseases and had to stop skating, and we are finally trying to get our heads above water. We live in a townhouse, drive old cars, etc., but we made many financially irrational decisions because my kid was talented and dreamed about the Olympics.

Genuinely curious how you could not "add it all up"? Anyone who does a bit of searching knows figure skating is literally one of the most expensive Extra curricular? I simply don't understand how you can spend $25K+ per year (that is likely low) and not be aware of it.


Then again, perhaps this is how UMC+ people end up in major debt. And nope, I would never put my family into debt to help a kid pursue the olympics. Simply not a smart choice on so many levels

I’m not the PP, don’t have kids, and don’t know anything about figure skating. But $25K/year doesn’t seem like a ridiculous amount to spend on athletics if the child truly is an Olympic-level talent.

I mean, people around here routinely spend $300,000 to send their kids to idiotic colleges like NYU or Vanderbilt or whatever, which will provide their child no discernible benefits in life. It seems much more sound to spend $25,000 a year for your kid from ages 6-18 to propel them into a field that they may enjoy working in for the rest of their life, even after their athletic career is over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:( 950) gas, electric, water, cable, cell phone

DP. I thought this might be a bit high too. Is this amount constant or high due to summer cooling bills? Also, how much is “cable”?

Are you kidding? Mine is $1400 for all this. She has 3 pre/teen kids that shower, have cell phones and exist. More expensive than the baby phase

Well, we make much more than that and don’t have cable, and our kids don’t have phones until they are 15. We also would never have a $700 car payment. Your friend sucks at managing her money, don’t pretend like this is OK. She might be living paycheck to paycheck but that is on her.

My teen is on the metro and needs a cell phone. 4 cell phones might be a necessity for this family, move on from it. I bought a really old used car for cheap in cash but I also live and work in the city and can rely on public transportation. Cars are insanely expensive post Covid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s usually because people are bad at calculating their means. They add up all the predictable, regular costs but underestimate the periodic and unpredictable ones. Car trouble. Home repairs. Job loss. Illness.

Also they budget without a contingency cushion and expect themselves to bat 1000 on sticking to it, which is not going to happen for a family vacation, for example.

The lower your means, the harder it is to do both of those things well because living cheaply is really, really hard.

Pin this post. This is the answer to OP’s question.

[Anonymous]

Health insurance and health care costs increase more than our income so our take home pay is smaller every year, and we want to do more for our kids as they grow, like put them in swim lessons or get them a math tutor. RTO was a pay cut, with more expenses and less time at home to cook, we order food from restaurants much more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why? I'm a single parent and my ex won't help pay for college for my DD. Even with FA, it's a LOT of money. The cost keeps going up every year and even with loans, it's very tight.

So getting a student loan to pay for college expenses is spending above your means now? 😂

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why? I'm a single parent and my ex won't help pay for college for my DD. Even with FA, it's a LOT of money. The cost keeps going up every year and even with loans, it's very tight.

So getting a student loan to pay for college expenses is spending above your means now? 😂

DP, but college loans are absolutely a form of spending above your means. I took out loans for law school and it's my number one financial regret in life. Those loans dictated major life decisions for the next 20 years. I remember hesitating about attending law school due to the cost but being told "oh it's good debt, everyone borrows, it's fine." And it is "fine" in that law school elevated my income enough to afford those loans. But the opportunity costs were huge, and the degree to which borrowing that money locked me into certain choices was not something I understood at all at age 23.

Maybe a small loan would be less of a big deal. 10-20k total would be fairly easy to repay and if it's the difference between getting a college degree or not, that's worth it. But education debt is still borrowing, it's still spending tomorrow's money for today's costs, with interests. Yes, it is spending above your means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We don't. But for a family of 4 with supposedly an UMC income (on 2 professional jobs that both require graduate degrees), it feels like we are living a life equivalent to (or even more frugal than) an equivalent family with 1 professional job a generation ago.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why? I'm a single parent and my ex won't help pay for college for my DD. Even with FA, it's a LOT of money. The cost keeps going up every year and even with loans, it's very tight.

So getting a student loan to pay for college expenses is spending above your means now? 😂

I promised my kid I’d pay off the loan myself so I’ll be paying for four years of college plus I estimate another year or two of loans.