Algebra in 6th grade - new selection process?

[Anonymous]

How would a parent know that their kid was in the 1125Q quantile on their iReady? I know that we looked up the iReady percentiles for my sons scores and his 580 in 5th grade was in the 99th percentile. Have they changed how they are reporting the iReady for math now? For giggles, we would take our sons scores and move them up different grade levels and it looked like he was in the 90th percentile for at least 3 years ahead of the grade he was in.

The iReady site says that they are scored between 100-800 and provide a percentile based on nationwide scores. I just looked at the tables from the Richmond school district and a 581 in Math would fall into the on grade level for 8th grade in all of the categories. It looks like a max score for 5th grade was a 586. They break out the scores overall based on Overall Placement, Algebra and Algebraic Thinkings, Numbers and Operations, Geometry, and Measurement and Data.

https://safe.menlosecurity.com/doc/docview/viewer/docN91E923350C2Dc6f06bf0f282bea18c4c5602c136bfd4f1b7be8671c1ebd313891810e75c6edc

I just wish that FCPS would use the data that parents have available and not some subsection that parents don't have access to. There is no need to confuse the situation by using a data point that parents don't have.

[Anonymous]

Is this only for Fairfax county? Does anyone know if Loudoun county is doing something similar? Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid got a high advanced pass on 6th SOL and high iready score and it would benefit from this pilot. However we did not receive an email. I sent a email to school and waiting to hear back.

This will be a good choice for the kids who already did algebra enrichment. However if our school is not participate this pilot, we will miss this chance.

I know some family moved to private because it’s hard to skip the math in FCPS. If people know about this sooner, they would move to the school who participate the pilot program.

Your school might not be involved in the pilot. Someone said it was 25 schools, that is a drop in the bucket for FCPS ESs.

Getting grounded in Algebra is very important and shouldn’t be rushed. It isn’t just being able to understand the concepts, it’s about taking the time for the brain to fully integrate them and use them going forward. It is foundational. I don’t see how taking Algebra 1 honors in 6th grade would be beneficial.

Your kid would have been fine in Algebra in 6th grade, at least the way you describe him. You could also opt him out. DS loves math and has been taking math competition classes since 3rd grade. He scored in the 95th percentile on the AMC 8 as a 6th grader and missed one question as a 7th grader. He was more then ready for Algebra 1H as a 6th grader. His school didn't have a path for him and we were not interested in sending him to the MS to take the class so we did not press. Had there been an option for him to take Algebra 1H at his base school in 6th grade, we would have accepted that for him.

No one is saying that this class is for everyone, probably 1-2% of the kids at any ES are in a position to take the class in 6th grade and some of those parents will opt out. DS was bored in ES math, he did everything that was asked/required because that is what we expected and he is a rule follower. We reminded him that it was good practice of foundational skills which would help as he progressed in math. Algebra 1H in 7th grade as academically easy for him, the pace was faster but that was about it. He never had homework, he completed everything at school. We expect the same for Geometry, although he is less likely to enjoy the class because he is not a huge geometry fan.

+1
This was my oldest too. Very bored by AAP math and usually was sent by the teacher to do something else math-y on the computer while the class worked through stuff. Center school but the only option for 6th was to bus to the MS and that wasn't really discussed with us as an option. But that's not common and my other Alg 1H in 7th kid would have NOT done well at it in 6th. Doing this virtual sounds like an even worse idea given it's a permanent grade.

[Anonymous]

FYI.. here is the ChatGPT interpretation of 1125Q.

What 1125Q Means
• Quantile scale context
The Quantile Framework for Mathematics typically ranges from below 0Q (beginner concepts) to above 1600Q (advanced high school).
• Grade-level norms
• Middle 50% range for 9th grade: ~1035Q–1285Q
• Middle 50% range for 10th grade: ~1115Q–1365Q
• This means 1125Q is right at the entry level of the typical 10th-grade range and near the higher end of the 9th-grade range.
• Skill readiness
At 1125Q, a student is generally able to:
• Work confidently with pre-algebra and early algebra (solving equations, inequalities, proportions, functions).
• Begin linear systems, quadratic basics, and more complex multi-step problem solving.
• Handle abstract reasoning better than most peers at the same grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FYI.. here is the ChatGPT interpretation of 1125Q.

What 1125Q Means
• Quantile scale context
The Quantile Framework for Mathematics typically ranges from below 0Q (beginner concepts) to above 1600Q (advanced high school).
• Grade-level norms
• Middle 50% range for 9th grade: ~1035Q–1285Q
• Middle 50% range for 10th grade: ~1115Q–1365Q
• This means 1125Q is right at the entry level of the typical 10th-grade range and near the higher end of the 9th-grade range.
• Skill readiness
At 1125Q, a student is generally able to:
• Work confidently with pre-algebra and early algebra (solving equations, inequalities, proportions, functions).
• Begin linear systems, quadratic basics, and more complex multi-step problem solving.
• Handle abstract reasoning better than most peers at the same grade.

That seems inline with what is on the Richmond district description of abilities but the high score on those charts is 800, which is in line with the test scores of 100-800. So where is the 1125Q coming from? It is not a score that parents see, or at least that I ever saw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is this only for Fairfax county? Does anyone know if Loudoun county is doing something similar? Thanks.

Anyone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this only for Fairfax county? Does anyone know if Loudoun county is doing something similar? Thanks.

Anyone?

anyone what? Before the pandemic, Loudoun, like many other districts, had a well-established process to identify advanced 5th-grade students for Algebra 1 in 6th grade. Those students later in 8th grade could take Algebra 2 trig at a nearby high school, with lcps school bus transportation provided during the last block.

Then came the pandemic and the surge of equity cool-aid. The entire option for Algebra 1 in 6th grade was removed.

Now that things are settling, and common sense returned, Algebra 1 in 6th grade is back on the table (see page 4), but still without the clear 5th grade screening, support, or structure that existed pre-pandemic.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aassl5gKM0axKb6oxS-F-IGwYLHA8Bnj/view

[Anonymous]

We got an email at 5:30 today for our rising 6th grader. He can definitely do the math, im more worried about the executive functioning and emotional maturity as years progress. Can he handle being a freshman in a class with seniors? He won’t drive until senior year, how will that impact his course options junior/senior year?

This is also a year that all SOL math courses are being tied to giving mandatory common assessments within a 2 week window. Our MS algebra teachers are stressing with pacing and content expectations, and they’ve taught the course for decades. To give an elementary teacher this with no resources (because that is the FCPS way), no license to teach algebra (they have until June to complete the praxis), and no colleagues on campus to share the burden (it will be singletons on all campuses) seems like setting things up to fail.

There is an information session at the school next week, I have a lot of questions…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: It looks like a max score for 5th grade was a 586.

This is definitely wrong, my kids got over 620 in 5th grade.

[Anonymous]

Pp can you share more what this means:

This is also a year that all SOL math courses are being tied to giving mandatory common assessments within a 2 week window.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pp can you share more what this means:

This is also a year that all SOL math courses are being tied to giving mandatory common assessments within a 2 week window.

The county has written 10 question summative assessments for each unit that must be given in a 2 week window. They have people at gatehouse analyzing the data for each course/unit, so tests are open for a 2 week window. This is to keep all teachers on pace with the county pacing guide and get them their data on time.

The tests are terrible, convoluted, and all multiple choice with no partial credit. As experienced teachers, we are writing our own assessments and will not be counting the mandatory county ones as a grade. The culture in my child’s elementary though has been to give the performance matters tests as the summative assessment for each math unit in prior grades. If that is their 70% grade (it’s a high school class, 70% is summative assessments!) grades will be trash. The average on those tests last year was 50% across the county.

Those tests are also tied to algebra 1, not algebra 1 honors standards. A solid algebra 1 honors class should go well beyond SOL skills. In my middle school, all math tests are on paper to allow for showing thinking for partial credit, more complex levels of questioning beyond SOL style questions, etc.

I really feel for our elementary teachers who have been assigned this. They are going to be swimming upstream all year.

I hope I’m wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We got an email at 5:30 today for our rising 6th grader. He can definitely do the math, im more worried about the executive functioning and emotional maturity as years progress. Can he handle being a freshman in a class with seniors? He won’t drive until senior year, how will that impact his course options junior/senior year?

This is also a year that all SOL math courses are being tied to giving mandatory common assessments within a 2 week window. Our MS algebra teachers are stressing with pacing and content expectations, and they’ve taught the course for decades. To give an elementary teacher this with no resources (because that is the FCPS way), no license to teach algebra (they have until June to complete the praxis), and no colleagues on campus to share the burden (it will be singletons on all campuses) seems like setting things up to fail.

There is an information session at the school next week, I have a lot of questions…

This is the issue. As well as what math classes will he take/are available for his junior and senior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got an email at 5:30 today for our rising 6th grader. He can definitely do the math, im more worried about the executive functioning and emotional maturity as years progress. Can he handle being a freshman in a class with seniors? He won’t drive until senior year, how will that impact his course options junior/senior year?

This is also a year that all SOL math courses are being tied to giving mandatory common assessments within a 2 week window. Our MS algebra teachers are stressing with pacing and content expectations, and they’ve taught the course for decades. To give an elementary teacher this with no resources (because that is the FCPS way), no license to teach algebra (they have until June to complete the praxis), and no colleagues on campus to share the burden (it will be singletons on all campuses) seems like setting things up to fail.

There is an information session at the school next week, I have a lot of questions…

This is the issue. As well as what math classes will he take/are available for his junior and senior year.

Most schools have math offerings for kids who take Calculus early, multivariate, linear algebra, AP Stats and the like are found at pretty much every school. The math classes would be the least of my concerns. I suspect that people will expect that these are kids most likely to apply to TJ where there are plenty of classes for them.

The executive function and ability to handle the pace would be my concern, but that is a cocnern I have for kids takign Algebra 1H in 7th grade. There are bright kids who are good in math who qualify for Algebra1 H in7th grade that it turns out to be not a good fit. Some move into Math 7H once they realize there is an issue. Some continue on and expunge the class, retaking it in 8th grade. A decent percentage continue in the class and do fine. We know kids who earned a B and their parents are happy with that, the kid worked hard and earned a B in a class that is meant for kids 2 years older. Would he earn an A if he took it as an 8th grader? No idea. We have another friend whose kid earned an A- and they are happy with that. They know their kid and pointed out that any EF issues in Algebra1 H would appear in Math 7H so why not challenge him.

I would hope that the 6th graders in the program are allowed to return to the regular AAP/Advanced Math class if they are struggling. I don't doubt that the kids selected into the class are advanced in their math skills but they will need a different type of support for a class like this. We know that 6th graders can handle the class. Many of us wish that there had been an option for our own kids but we were never offered it. That said, it is a fine line and you don't want to run a kids love of math or confidence by advancing too quickly.

[Anonymous]

My current 7th grader would have been a good fit for this, but honestly, I'm not sure I would have wanted her take it in 6th. I mean, truly, what is the point? I don't think she is going to major in math...

Anyway, I'm kind of glad it didn't roll out last year, as I think it would have been a hard call for us (and I know she would have wanted to do it). I have one more but she's younger, so we've got time for all the kinks to get worked out.

Kids don't even get grades in ES, so how does that work??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6th AAP teacher here. Some schools are piloting this. Some are doing virtual and some are making teachers teach it and they have a year to get certified. It is a mix of all school types doing this. I teach AAP math and am certified in Algebra 1 but our school is not a pilot.

Personally, I don’t agree with this pilot. Are there kids ready to tackle Algebra 1 as a 6th grader? Yes, but the percentage is very small. Not enough to warrant this full blown pilot in 15-20 schools.

I posted my kids scores, he should have had the chance to take Algebra in 6th grade but it wasn’t an option. I think that having the class as an option at Center schools where there are enough kids to make a class is appropriate. My concern is that parents will push to get their kid in the class when they are not ready. I wish this had been an option for my kid.

I don't think most parents view it this way. I certainly am not viewing it as a "push". My kid got selected (Haycock) and I'm looking to opt out. However, I've also made it clear to my kid that my expectation is that she will get an A in the course and if the teaching is poor or she's struggling, not to sweat it. We will withdraw and expunge the grade. It's not that big of a deal. If they do great, fine. If they don't, they get a taste of what 7th grade Alg 1 HN will be like.