MCPS email: "Why would we continue the practice of denying talented students an opportunity to thrive?" "

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I never trust reading MCPS threads anymore since the crazy alt-right people have been hired to attack it.

None of the responses seem intelligent or measured.

It’s a bummer. We can’t have an intelligent conversation about these things.

Not alt-right. I am an Independent for the record. Those folks you are referring to have been living here longer than you have. It is hard to be positive after seeing one failure after another, year after year.

[Anonymous]

The examples they use are from the strongest and most desirable programs. There are plenty of undersubscribed programs, and for good reason -- they are not nearly as good. Compare admissions rates and outcomes for RMIB and Kennedy's IB program, for instance. They are also ignoring why so many people need programs--their home schools are not providing a strong academic program. That's where the focus should be -- improving local school so that people are able to get a good education at their local schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The examples they use are from the strongest and most desirable programs. There are plenty of undersubscribed programs, and for good reason -- they are not nearly as good. Compare admissions rates and outcomes for RMIB and Kennedy's IB program, for instance. They are also ignoring why so many people need programs--their home schools are not providing a strong academic program. That's where the focus should be -- improving local school so that people are able to get a good education at their local schools.

So tiny RMIB level education at every school? LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did folks see the email from MCPS about the program changes (also at this link: https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/publicinfo/community/school-year-2024-2025/Community-Message-20250730-b.html )? Do you think this could possibly be an actual change of approach that will carry through in other ways as well to better serve advanced and gifted students throughout MCPS?

A lot of what they cite is true of middle school magnets and elementary school CESs as well,--might this be a sign they will expand seats for those as well? ("what we’re really facing is a classic supply-and-demand problem: too many students chasing too few seats, burdened by long commutes and uneven program quality and availability. Thousands apply to specialized programs, but with only a handful of openings, most are left on the sidelines.")

And the question about "Why would we continue the practice of denying talented students an opportunity to thrive?" could easily be asked about the lack of enriched/advanced classes at the elementary and middle school level as well (they've said elsewhere they're planning to do that at all high schools.)

Might this also indicate a change for the better at those levels too? Or are there ways to use this expressed commitment to betted advocate for those changes?

Already attempted and not filled for two years in a row.

Wait, are you saying there are unfilled CES and middle school magnet seats? I don't think that's true, aren't there far more eligible kids than seats?

I don’t know about CES, but you can ask magnet middle school 6th and 7th graders about how many kids are in their cohorts the first month vs. the number of designated seats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The examples they use are from the strongest and most desirable programs. There are plenty of undersubscribed programs, and for good reason -- they are not nearly as good. Compare admissions rates and outcomes for RMIB and Kennedy's IB program, for instance. They are also ignoring why so many people need programs--their home schools are not providing a strong academic program. That's where the focus should be -- improving local school so that people are able to get a good education at their local schools.

Especially at the ES and MS level, people have been very clear that they would prefer to keep their kids close to home in their home school but would very much like more accelerated options. They did do a slightly accelerated social studies program for MS — unclear what they can’t do that for English. No one wants to put their 11 year old on an hour bus ride and separate them from friends (unlesss the kid has been bullied or something like that.).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The examples they use are from the strongest and most desirable programs. There are plenty of undersubscribed programs, and for good reason -- they are not nearly as good. Compare admissions rates and outcomes for RMIB and Kennedy's IB program, for instance. They are also ignoring why so many people need programs--their home schools are not providing a strong academic program. That's where the focus should be -- improving local school so that people are able to get a good education at their local schools.

Especially at the ES and MS level, people have been very clear that they would prefer to keep their kids close to home in their home school but would very much like more accelerated options. They did do a slightly accelerated social studies program for MS — unclear what they can’t do that for English. No one wants to put their 11 year old on an hour bus ride and separate them from friends (unlesss the kid has been bullied or something like that.).

People with an actually academically advanced child do want to put their kid on a bus for an hour. Obviously closer would be better. But some of you clearly don’t know kids who truly cannot have academic needs met outside of a gifted program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think they got new PR people because that letter was much better written than ones in the past. It was almost convincing.

But I absolutely don't believe they can make this happen. And the details were pretty fuzzy (although I didn't read the links). I just don't understand how these "theme" schools are gong to work. I suspect they will be trendy crap filler (medical sciences! performing arts!) that will pull teachers and resources away from teaching solid, important classes like pre-calculus, biology, English.

I also don't believe their thing about kids driving past other IB programs to get to RM. There aren't that many IB programs in the County. My kid went to RMIB, and there were kids from Whtiman and WJ there, but they don't drive by BCC or Kennedy to get there. One of the reasons my kid chose RMIB is that WJ had watered down the Apex program so much by allowing basically everybody in it. It's still "better than nothing" but is no longer a cohort of kids that really want an intense academic experience.

If they cared about giving kids accelerated opportunities, they could do it without these stupid trendy "theme" schools. They could let teachers start teaching more challenging curricula -- which I think a lot of them would do. They could get rid of honors for all and actually have advanced English classes, particularly in middle school where they are really needed. They could give English teachers an extra planning period so they could provide more substantive feedback on written work. They could develop a better science curriculum and make real labs available to kids more often. Instead they are going to waste a lot of money on reinventing wheels, in a way that will not be as effective as more obvious and basic approaches to serving the needs of advanced learners. Honestly, thank God for the AP program -- I'm not a huge fan of AP or College Board's rote learning method -- but at least it is a solid curriculum that actually teaches something, and MCPS can't monkey too much with what the teachers are teaching there.

No, they are the same people - but they are now running their word salads through AI to make it sound better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The examples they use are from the strongest and most desirable programs. There are plenty of undersubscribed programs, and for good reason -- they are not nearly as good. Compare admissions rates and outcomes for RMIB and Kennedy's IB program, for instance. They are also ignoring why so many people need programs--their home schools are not providing a strong academic program. That's where the focus should be -- improving local school so that people are able to get a good education at their local schools.

Especially at the ES and MS level, people have been very clear that they would prefer to keep their kids close to home in their home school but would very much like more accelerated options. They did do a slightly accelerated social studies program for MS — unclear what they can’t do that for English. No one wants to put their 11 year old on an hour bus ride and separate them from friends (unlesss the kid has been bullied or something like that.).

People with an actually academically advanced child do want to put their kid on a bus for an hour. Obviously closer would be better. But some of you clearly don’t know kids who truly cannot have academic needs met outside of a gifted program.

Forget it. These people don't understand (and never will) what it takes. I think most of them are thinking "gifted = accelerated current curriculum".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is probably just wishful thinking, but they just started an audit of high school honors classes earlier this year to make sure that only rigorous ones get an honors designation, right? Is that maybe a positive sign that the tide is turning towards having more advanced classes available?

Oh, that's interesting. If what I read here is any indication, a honest reckoning would probably find 80% of those classes aren't really advanced.

Wait are you saying that health really isn't an honors course?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is probably just wishful thinking, but they just started an audit of high school honors classes earlier this year to make sure that only rigorous ones get an honors designation, right? Is that maybe a positive sign that the tide is turning towards having more advanced classes available?

Oh, that's interesting. If what I read here is any indication, a honest reckoning would probably find 80% of those classes aren't really advanced.

Wait are you saying that health really isn't an honors course?!

It sure is!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did folks see the email from MCPS about the program changes (also at this link: https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/publicinfo/community/school-year-2024-2025/Community-Message-20250730-b.html )? Do you think this could possibly be an actual change of approach that will carry through in other ways as well to better serve advanced and gifted students throughout MCPS?

A lot of what they cite is true of middle school magnets and elementary school CESs as well,--might this be a sign they will expand seats for those as well? ("what we’re really facing is a classic supply-and-demand problem: too many students chasing too few seats, burdened by long commutes and uneven program quality and availability. Thousands apply to specialized programs, but with only a handful of openings, most are left on the sidelines.")

And the question about "Why would we continue the practice of denying talented students an opportunity to thrive?" could easily be asked about the lack of enriched/advanced classes at the elementary and middle school level as well (they've said elsewhere they're planning to do that at all high schools.)

Might this also indicate a change for the better at those levels too? Or are there ways to use this expressed commitment to betted advocate for those changes?

Already attempted and not filled for two years in a row.

Wait, are you saying there are unfilled CES and middle school magnet seats? I don't think that's true, aren't there far more eligible kids than seats?

I don’t know about CES, but you can ask magnet middle school 6th and 7th graders about how many kids are in their cohorts the first month vs. the number of designated seats.

Well there are tons of kids and families that want these spots, so if there are empty seats that sounds like a wait-list management issue, not a demand issue. Which magnet(s) have you seen this happen at?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did folks see the email from MCPS about the program changes (also at this link: https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/publicinfo/community/school-year-2024-2025/Community-Message-20250730-b.html )? Do you think this could possibly be an actual change of approach that will carry through in other ways as well to better serve advanced and gifted students throughout MCPS?

A lot of what they cite is true of middle school magnets and elementary school CESs as well,--might this be a sign they will expand seats for those as well? ("what we’re really facing is a classic supply-and-demand problem: too many students chasing too few seats, burdened by long commutes and uneven program quality and availability. Thousands apply to specialized programs, but with only a handful of openings, most are left on the sidelines.")

And the question about "Why would we continue the practice of denying talented students an opportunity to thrive?" could easily be asked about the lack of enriched/advanced classes at the elementary and middle school level as well (they've said elsewhere they're planning to do that at all high schools.)

Might this also indicate a change for the better at those levels too? Or are there ways to use this expressed commitment to betted advocate for those changes?

Already attempted and not filled for two years in a row.

Wait, are you saying there are unfilled CES and middle school magnet seats? I don't think that's true, aren't there far more eligible kids than seats?

I don’t know about CES, but you can ask magnet middle school 6th and 7th graders about how many kids are in their cohorts the first month vs. the number of designated seats.

Well there are tons of kids and families that want these spots, so if there are empty seats that sounds like a wait-list management issue, not a demand issue. Which magnet(s) have you seen this happen at?

DP. I know my kid who was on the waitlist for both Eastern and Takoma was never offered a spot at either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did folks see the email from MCPS about the program changes (also at this link: https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/publicinfo/community/school-year-2024-2025/Community-Message-20250730-b.html )? Do you think this could possibly be an actual change of approach that will carry through in other ways as well to better serve advanced and gifted students throughout MCPS?

A lot of what they cite is true of middle school magnets and elementary school CESs as well,--might this be a sign they will expand seats for those as well? ("what we’re really facing is a classic supply-and-demand problem: too many students chasing too few seats, burdened by long commutes and uneven program quality and availability. Thousands apply to specialized programs, but with only a handful of openings, most are left on the sidelines.")

And the question about "Why would we continue the practice of denying talented students an opportunity to thrive?" could easily be asked about the lack of enriched/advanced classes at the elementary and middle school level as well (they've said elsewhere they're planning to do that at all high schools.)

Might this also indicate a change for the better at those levels too? Or are there ways to use this expressed commitment to betted advocate for those changes?

Already attempted and not filled for two years in a row.

Wait, are you saying there are unfilled CES and middle school magnet seats? I don't think that's true, aren't there far more eligible kids than seats?

I don’t know about CES, but you can ask magnet middle school 6th and 7th graders about how many kids are in their cohorts the first month vs. the number of designated seats.

Well there are tons of kids and families that want these spots, so if there are empty seats that sounds like a wait-list management issue, not a demand issue. Which magnet(s) have you seen this happen at?

I think PP is full of it. Kids have no idea how many slots are in the program, as there seems to be some flux year-over-year. They might be able to tell you how many kids dropped out over the course of the year, but not whether there are exactly 125 kids in the grade.

[Anonymous]

Okay, so why can’t they just offer advanced/gifted/whatever you want to call it classes in all elementary and middle schools? Why do my kids have to be shut out of the CES and middle school magnets because of the lottery while MCPS pays consultants and does endless studies and thinks some more about it, when they could just bring the magnet curriculum to the local school level? It’s not rocket science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did folks see the email from MCPS about the program changes (also at this link: https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/publicinfo/community/school-year-2024-2025/Community-Message-20250730-b.html )? Do you think this could possibly be an actual change of approach that will carry through in other ways as well to better serve advanced and gifted students throughout MCPS?

A lot of what they cite is true of middle school magnets and elementary school CESs as well,--might this be a sign they will expand seats for those as well? ("what we’re really facing is a classic supply-and-demand problem: too many students chasing too few seats, burdened by long commutes and uneven program quality and availability. Thousands apply to specialized programs, but with only a handful of openings, most are left on the sidelines.")

And the question about "Why would we continue the practice of denying talented students an opportunity to thrive?" could easily be asked about the lack of enriched/advanced classes at the elementary and middle school level as well (they've said elsewhere they're planning to do that at all high schools.)

Might this also indicate a change for the better at those levels too? Or are there ways to use this expressed commitment to betted advocate for those changes?

Already attempted and not filled for two years in a row.

Wait, are you saying there are unfilled CES and middle school magnet seats? I don't think that's true, aren't there far more eligible kids than seats?

I don’t know about CES, but you can ask magnet middle school 6th and 7th graders about how many kids are in their cohorts the first month vs. the number of designated seats.

Well there are tons of kids and families that want these spots, so if there are empty seats that sounds like a wait-list management issue, not a demand issue. Which magnet(s) have you seen this happen at?

I think PP is full of it. Kids have no idea how many slots are in the program, as there seems to be some flux year-over-year. They might be able to tell you how many kids dropped out over the course of the year, but not whether there are exactly 125 kids in the grade.

The point is that kids are not just applying to a program. They are applying to a program at a particular school. So if they apply to the IB program at RM and don't get accepted, they are not also being considered for the IB program at Kennedy, unless they apply to Kennedy. So yes, you could in fact have schools under enrolled while others have long wait list.