Isn't it Ironic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In Jamie's defense I have a staff person who wants to be promoted to manager. She is nice, does a good job, works from home three days a week, two days in even let her leave a bit early and catch up work. So she only comes to work 8 am to 4 pm two days a week.

Also due to strict drop off day care, then bus stop, then pick up day care and pick up bus stop and a husband who has an in person longer hour job she is one who makes, breakfast and dinner every night. She also never attends any work events as runs out the door or remote that day and wont budge on coming in on a remote day or staying late in person day.

This is all fine. But like Jamie she came to me to be promoted which would be managing staff and asked what I can do to get to that level.

I literally said you are qualified right now. But you do know your job would not be making sure people get to work on time, dont leave early, not taking excessive lunches, you know babysitting plus attending events your staff, making taking staff out on birthday or promotion and when home being there to answer questions. Can you do that?

She was like hmmmmm. She is a great SME worker. But she litterally three days a week I know her schedule. she drops kid off childcare logs on 8am then runs out to buss stop with second kid, then back to a bit of work and juggle cleaning up kitchen, back to computer then at at lunch she grabs a shower, back on line, then off to buss stop, make a snack, then put kid in car go to day care, back to PC logs off for day.

She is efficient and gets it down. But how in the hell can she get promoted to manage people with that schedule.

I think you're probably right that she has created some career limitations for herself. Her limitations are in the business optics area. Your workplace isn't fully cool with flexible work and maybe you don't have many parent employees or people who place hard limits on use of their personal time. Your job requires more than the exact number/minimum scheduled hours.

I had a remote manager for 2 years during Covid. It was the same management experience as seeing him in person in the office.

It really is not the "managing people" that's the issue here (task selection and delegation, training, evaluating, reviewing work product, etc). It's management's role in building a workplace culture and contributing to norms.

I think you've fairly communicated that there's an hours, in-office presence, and cultural norms-setting requirement. However, you don't seem to have given much thought to whether she would actually do a good job of managing people to produce work. And young people are better able to create culture and friendships in digital form. So in that sense, you're not really evolving your ideas of what it means to be a manager.

Actually she is not. For instance I offered her opportunity to be manager perhaps a new role and to do more high level work. She expected to be thought on company time. The type who goes to bathroom, puts coat on packs bag up then punches out. So a clerical mindset.

We have flex hours at work pretty much anytime between 7 and 7 pm. She is on a rigid imaginary schedule even at home. I am still in bed when she logs on. Which is fine. But me and my boss log in way after her. Also refuses to put email on phone. Or have anyway to communicate with her once laptop shuts. This is all fine, I give her work.

But I have no clue how you manage people. I had someone in my office crying her kid had cancer, needed time off me working with her. Technically that person is a level below her. She hates that sort of thing. She hates conflict or personal stuff. Good Luck firing someone or doing review.

This is in person skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In Jamie's defense I have a staff person who wants to be promoted to manager. She is nice, does a good job, works from home three days a week, two days in even let her leave a bit early and catch up work. So she only comes to work 8 am to 4 pm two days a week.

Also due to strict drop off day care, then bus stop, then pick up day care and pick up bus stop and a husband who has an in person longer hour job she is one who makes, breakfast and dinner every night. She also never attends any work events as runs out the door or remote that day and wont budge on coming in on a remote day or staying late in person day.

This is all fine. But like Jamie she came to me to be promoted which would be managing staff and asked what I can do to get to that level.

I literally said you are qualified right now. But you do know your job would not be making sure people get to work on time, dont leave early, not taking excessive lunches, you know babysitting plus attending events your staff, making taking staff out on birthday or promotion and when home being there to answer questions. Can you do that?

She was like hmmmmm. She is a great SME worker. But she litterally three days a week I know her schedule. she drops kid off childcare logs on 8am then runs out to buss stop with second kid, then back to a bit of work and juggle cleaning up kitchen, back to computer then at at lunch she grabs a shower, back on line, then off to buss stop, make a snack, then put kid in car go to day care, back to PC logs off for day.

She is efficient and gets it down. But how in the hell can she get promoted to manage people with that schedule.

I think you're probably right that she has created some career limitations for herself. Her limitations are in the business optics area. Your workplace isn't fully cool with flexible work and maybe you don't have many parent employees or people who place hard limits on use of their personal time. Your job requires more than the exact number/minimum scheduled hours.

I had a remote manager for 2 years during Covid. It was the same management experience as seeing him in person in the office.

It really is not the "managing people" that's the issue here (task selection and delegation, training, evaluating, reviewing work product, etc). It's management's role in building a workplace culture and contributing to norms.

I think you've fairly communicated that there's an hours, in-office presence, and cultural norms-setting requirement. However, you don't seem to have given much thought to whether she would actually do a good job of managing people to produce work. And young people are better able to create culture and friendships in digital form. So in that sense, you're not really evolving your ideas of what it means to be a manager.

Actually she is not. For instance I offered her opportunity to be manager perhaps a new role and to do more high level work. She expected to be thought on company time. The type who goes to bathroom, puts coat on packs bag up then punches out. So a clerical mindset.

We have flex hours at work pretty much anytime between 7 and 7 pm. She is on a rigid imaginary schedule even at home. I am still in bed when she logs on. Which is fine. But me and my boss log in way after her. Also refuses to put email on phone. Or have anyway to communicate with her once laptop shuts. This is all fine, I give her work.

But I have no clue how you manage people. I had someone in my office crying her kid had cancer, needed time off me working with her. Technically that person is a level below her. She hates that sort of thing. She hates conflict or personal stuff. Good Luck firing someone or doing review.

This is in person skills.

You can also console and reschedule someone's work remotely.

It just sounds like your employee just doesn't have what it takes to be a manager in general.

You still might have a limited mindset about remote work. I am good at making friends with work people in countries that I never get to visit.