Major choice and strategic positioning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stanford explicitly allows anyone to come there and major in CS. Talk to students. Read on unigo.

The school knows what kids are doing. It’s not a secret.

https://stanforddaily.com/2024/03/03/the-most-enrolled-2024-winter-quarter-courses/

Clearly you are not getting the point. Of course they know, but only looking into the black box of admissions reveals the extent of their ongoing actions to curtail it.

Maybe they don’t want to curtail it. It’s working out for them.

This sure is an insightful point. By your reasoning, they should even encourage and expand it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A kid who will potentially end up double-majoring in, per your example, biology and Asian studies is still taking up lots of resources in an oversubscribed major. The difference from someone who is a straight bio major is a couple more filled seats in an Asian history class. The situation for a computer science and humanities double major is even worse.

A cursory examination of most kids’ applications will make clear if this undersubscribed major kid (sincere interest or not) will easily switch to or double major in an oversubscribed field.

The issue then is — or should be — not so much showing a real interest in an unpopular major, but in likewise demonstrating a complete lack of interest in an oversubscribed major(s). College admissions can be a slow turning boat, but admissions officers will catch onto this nuance pretty soon, if they haven’t already.

OP here:

All good food for thought. But I want to challenge your assumption.

If you just don’t list any of the other “oversubscribed” ECs/interests? I mean, that’s why it has to be authentic. You really have to have a demonstrated interest in the undersubscribed major evidenced by activities, LOR, essays.

My kid is a senior and got some advice from a kid a few years older from the same high school now at Stanford. She is a computer science major now, but got into Stanford with “history” listed as 1st choice major. She didn’t list one computer science EC on her activities list because she was so super involved and well rounded that she had plenty of humanities extracurricular and in-school leadership. But she knew getting into college as an Asian computer science girl at Stanford was impossible. Had national accolades in history as well.

That girl is now majoring in computer science and minoring in history. She might also be doing something with digital humanities I think.

Anyway, is that wrong? These schools are asking you to contort yourself and create a compelling “narrative” for them anyway. If all of this is true, you’re just hiding parts of yourself, how is this wrong?

Mind you my kid isn’t interested in any of these 3 majors that I originally mentioned. I’m using this as a hypothetical because I don’t want to out their true interest, but it is 100% not related to stem CS or engineering. All arts & sciences.

I read what you wrote because you said you wanted to challenge my assumptions. But I don’t see any assumptions that have been challenged, so maybe you should reread my post. I will say that I am sure a cursory examination of the now Stanford student’s transcript would probably have identified her as a possible or likely candidate for “switching".

How? All qualified applicants, including humanities applicants, have max rigor in STEM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it's sad so many of you send the message to your kids they can't get into these schools on their own merit, you need to move to the middle of nowhere, fake their majors, fake their interests, cultivate their ECs based not on what they like but what you think will help. So these schools really don't want them, the real them, they want this fake cultivated version of them, because they just aren't good enough.

It's actually not sad, it's pathetic.

Wake up. No kid gets into any of these schools “on their own merit.” Even those kids you think got in on their “own merit,” by not “gaming,” had innumerable privileges enabling to be who they are — privileges that in many cases were far more meaningful than the measures you sanctimoniously decry.

Make any excuse you want but at the end of the day you know the only way your special snowflake is getting in is by faking it. Maybe they aren’t so special after all? But hey keep cultivating that fake life, I’m sure you are juat thrilled with your insta clout

[Anonymous]

Ehh. I don’t care.
Everyone is doing something to make themselves “different” or memorable.
Probably won’t work anyway.
Don’t sweat it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A kid who will potentially end up double-majoring in, per your example, biology and Asian studies is still taking up lots of resources in an oversubscribed major. The difference from someone who is a straight bio major is a couple more filled seats in an Asian history class. The situation for a computer science and humanities double major is even worse.

A cursory examination of most kids’ applications will make clear if this undersubscribed major kid (sincere interest or not) will easily switch to or double major in an oversubscribed field.

The issue then is — or should be — not so much showing a real interest in an unpopular major, but in likewise demonstrating a complete lack of interest in an oversubscribed major(s). College admissions can be a slow turning boat, but admissions officers will catch onto this nuance pretty soon, if they haven’t already.

OP here:

All good food for thought. But I want to challenge your assumption.

If you just don’t list any of the other “oversubscribed” ECs/interests? I mean, that’s why it has to be authentic. You really have to have a demonstrated interest in the undersubscribed major evidenced by activities, LOR, essays.

My kid is a senior and got some advice from a kid a few years older from the same high school now at Stanford. She is a computer science major now, but got into Stanford with “history” listed as 1st choice major. She didn’t list one computer science EC on her activities list because she was so super involved and well rounded that she had plenty of humanities extracurricular and in-school leadership. But she knew getting into college as an Asian computer science girl at Stanford was impossible. Had national accolades in history as well.

That girl is now majoring in computer science and minoring in history. She might also be doing something with digital humanities I think.

Anyway, is that wrong? These schools are asking you to contort yourself and create a compelling “narrative” for them anyway. If all of this is true, you’re just hiding parts of yourself, how is this wrong?

Mind you my kid isn’t interested in any of these 3 majors that I originally mentioned. I’m using this as a hypothetical because I don’t want to out their true interest, but it is 100% not related to stem CS or engineering. All arts & sciences.

I read what you wrote because you said you wanted to challenge my assumptions. But I don’t see any assumptions that have been challenged, so maybe you should reread my post. I will say that I am sure a cursory examination of the now Stanford student’s transcript would probably have identified her as a possible or likely candidate for “switching".

How? All qualified applicants, including humanities applicants, have max rigor in STEM.

Already explained above. There is a “maximum rigor in STEM threshold,” and a “beyond that maximum rigor in STEM threshold” — and never the twain shall meet. Signing off now, because I feel like I am having a conversation with kids and/or naive STEM types. Lamenting the loss of “Old Stanford”…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Several podcasts discuss “strategic positioning”.

Search apple?

From YCBK today about Duke and institutional priorities in admissions (recorded in Jan I think:

“But even so, there's some things I couldn't share, because if Duke indicates that, you know, we have this under-subscribed major and we might have to lay some faculty off because we're only getting four to six kids in this class, unless we get more interest here, then they're going to have people lining up to pretend they're interested in that major.

Right, yeah, of course, of course, yeah.

So there's some things you really can't do, because people will just try to game the system.

Yeah.

Or if it's a school that's trying to get more full-pay, not that Duke could have this problem, but trying to get more full-pay families or more people that have donor potential. How does that sound to say that in front of a group of people that need financial aid? Like they'll get out and walk out on you.”

From Your College Bound Kid | Admission Tips, Admission Trends & Admission Interviews: Is It Ever A Bad Idea To Submit A Test Score That Is Too High, Feb 26, 2025

[Anonymous]

Most people I know who got into Ivies went in as “undecided”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most people I know who got into Ivies went in as “undecided”.

that's maybe what they put on the IG and social media. I know DC won't put what DC applied as and will likely put "undecided" bc these ethnic/field studies can be looked down upon....

At our private, the successful Ivy and Ivy+ early admits were below - not our CCO highly recommends these niche majors too with good to great outcomes (assuming ample evidence for major):

Anthro
Archeology
Art History
Chicana/Latino Studies
Classics
Comparative Lit
English
History
Iranian Studies
Jewish Studies
Medieval Studies
Phil
Sociology
Women's/Gender Studies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Several podcasts discuss “strategic positioning”.

Search apple?

From YCBK today about Duke and institutional priorities in admissions (recorded in Jan I think:

“But even so, there's some things I couldn't share, because if Duke indicates that, you know, we have this under-subscribed major and we might have to lay some faculty off because we're only getting four to six kids in this class, unless we get more interest here, then they're going to have people lining up to pretend they're interested in that major.

Right, yeah, of course, of course, yeah.

So there's some things you really can't do, because people will just try to game the system.

Yeah.

Or if it's a school that's trying to get more full-pay, not that Duke could have this problem, but trying to get more full-pay families or more people that have donor potential. How does that sound to say that in front of a group of people that need financial aid? Like they'll get out and walk out on you.”

From Your College Bound Kid | Admission Tips, Admission Trends & Admission Interviews: Is It Ever A Bad Idea To Submit A Test Score That Is Too High, Feb 26, 2025

I don’t get it. Are they are tacitly admitting that this is what people would do?
If so, does it work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Encouraging my son to major in Latin at a top school. He’s a 4.0 UW gpa at a rigorous school, but a white male with very meh ECs. Hes going to do a dig in the Middle East over the summer, and is volunteering at a museum to try to boost this faux niche interest. He’s going to end up in graduate school, likely for law, anyway so his undergrad major (if it was not going to be science regardless) does not matter.

A lot of kids try to get in with classics, not as unique a move as you think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most people I know who got into Ivies went in as “undecided”.

that's maybe what they put on the IG and social media. I know DC won't put what DC applied as and will likely put "undecided" bc these ethnic/field studies can be looked down upon....

At our private, the successful Ivy and Ivy+ early admits were below - not our CCO highly recommends these niche majors too with good to great outcomes (assuming ample evidence for major):

Anthro
Archeology
Art History
Chicana/Latino Studies
Classics
Comparative Lit
English
History
Iranian Studies
Jewish Studies
Medieval Studies
Phil
Sociology
Women's/Gender Studies

Not sure that Women’s or Hispanic studies is going to be a winner with schools being encouraged to drop anything remotely DEI.

The problem with going with a niche major is that while there may be fewer kids applying, there are also fewer spots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most people I know who got into Ivies went in as “undecided”.

that's maybe what they put on the IG and social media. I know DC won't put what DC applied as and will likely put "undecided" bc these ethnic/field studies can be looked down upon....

At our private, the successful Ivy and Ivy+ early admits were below - not our CCO highly recommends these niche majors too with good to great outcomes (assuming ample evidence for major):

Anthro
Archeology
Art History
Chicana/Latino Studies
Classics
Comparative Lit
English
History
Iranian Studies
Jewish Studies
Medieval Studies
Phil
Sociology
Women's/Gender Studies

Not sure that Women’s or Hispanic studies is going to be a winner with schools being encouraged to drop anything remotely DEI.

The problem with going with a niche major is that while there may be fewer kids applying, there are also fewer spots.

Wrong for some these. There are not “fewer spots” - no one ever lists it!!

Most of these schools would be thrilled to have an overabundance of classics, philosophy or anthropology majors. Look at the number of professors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most people I know who got into Ivies went in as “undecided”.

that's maybe what they put on the IG and social media. I know DC won't put what DC applied as and will likely put "undecided" bc these ethnic/field studies can be looked down upon....

At our private, the successful Ivy and Ivy+ early admits were below - not our CCO highly recommends these niche majors too with good to great outcomes (assuming ample evidence for major):

Anthro
Archeology
Art History
Chicana/Latino Studies
Classics
Comparative Lit
English
History
Iranian Studies
Jewish Studies
Medieval Studies
Phil
Sociology
Women's/Gender Studies

Not sure that Women’s or Hispanic studies is going to be a winner with schools being encouraged to drop anything remotely DEI.

The problem with going with a niche major is that while there may be fewer kids applying, there are also fewer spots.

Um. No there are not "fewer spots" for liberal arts majors at T20. They have fewer applicants. Have you not been following this epidemic? Its reached crisis level in universities.
Sometimes the stuff people say here is plain wrong.
Beware.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Encouraging my son to major in Latin at a top school. He’s a 4.0 UW gpa at a rigorous school, but a white male with very meh ECs. Hes going to do a dig in the Middle East over the summer, and is volunteering at a museum to try to boost this faux niche interest. He’s going to end up in graduate school, likely for law, anyway so his undergrad major (if it was not going to be science regardless) does not matter.

A lot of kids try to get in with classics, not as unique a move as you think.

My friend's son got into Brown as a Classics major (plus was a legacy). He'd also taken Latin all through school, studied Greek independently, participated in competitions/conventions all 4 years, and did, in fact, graduate as a Classics major (and went on to work in IB). I don't think you get much benefit applying as a Classics major if you don't have the transcript and activities to back it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Encouraging my son to major in Latin at a top school. He’s a 4.0 UW gpa at a rigorous school, but a white male with very meh ECs. Hes going to do a dig in the Middle East over the summer, and is volunteering at a museum to try to boost this faux niche interest. He’s going to end up in graduate school, likely for law, anyway so his undergrad major (if it was not going to be science regardless) does not matter.

A lot of kids try to get in with classics, not as unique a move as you think.

My friend's son got into Brown as a Classics major (plus was a legacy). He'd also taken Latin all through school, studied Greek independently, participated in competitions/conventions all 4 years, and did, in fact, graduate as a Classics major (and went on to work in IB). I don't think you get much benefit applying as a Classics major if you don't have the transcript and activities to back it up.

100% you need a transcript and activities to back up all of these majors.