Best Options for 3rd and 5th grade options using the lottery

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not think McArthur will be a viable option. Their numbers are dismal and there is hardly any buy in from IB families.

Plus the commute is horrendous. Why deal with 45 minutes to 1 hour commute in rush hour traffic each way for a subpar school.

Are families that desperate to stay in the city?

No, we've just seen how schools change and we might have more experience than you do.

I suggest you talk to the Capitol Hill crowd then. SH is still not an acceptable option and overwhelming majority are not sending their kids there.

The stakes are much higher for middle school than elementary. You are so naive.

Actually LT is increasingly sending kids to SH. Watkins always has, but is now less gentrified than it used to be. SH is more gentrified than JOW is. None of the other CH schools feed to SH, so while there are some Brent families with proximity preference, it’s not like other CH families can just decide to go there.

A handful of families going does not make it a majority IB school. Just look at percentages IB and no it is not a majority by any long shot, not even close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Inspired Teaching will give you a pretty good chance in 5th since a group of kids leave for the 5th-12th schools like Latin and Basis then. And if your 5th grader is offered a spot or enrolls, then your 3rd grader will rise to the top of that grade's list and is likely to get pulled in. Inspired only goes to 8th and the MS is small, but they have a good track record of HS application support and acceptances to competitive HSs.

Also, my daughter is in this grade at ITDS (rising 5th grader) and it's a really kind cohort of kids.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not think McArthur will be a viable option. Their numbers are dismal and there is hardly any buy in from IB families.

Plus the commute is horrendous. Why deal with 45 minutes to 1 hour commute in rush hour traffic each way for a subpar school.

Are families that desperate to stay in the city?

No, we've just seen how schools change and we might have more experience than you do.

+1. There has been minimal IB buy-in thus far because families had dual feeder rights to JR, and very reasonably families chose the established, known pathway. That has ended and MacArthur is the only feeder for Hardy going forward. And frankly, OP has no good lottery options in upper elementary that will secure her family a feeder pathway through high school, if your only acceptable pathway is Deal-JR. Lotterying into a Hardy feeder still takes lottery luck, but it's better odds than lotterying into a Deal feeder. And if MacArthur still isn't an acceptable option to OP in 5 years, she's at least got a strong middle school pathway for her older child in two years.

Either way, Georgetown and Capitol Hill are apples and oranges. Time will tell, but a school with a solid middle school pathway is better for OP's individual situation this year than putting her fifth grader in an elementary school for one year, then having to lottery again for a new pathway next year. There are frankly NO options with good lottery odds for those grades, particularly if she wants to have one sibling pull the other in, but she can maximize her odds of "better than the IB middle school" by casting as wide of a net as possible this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not think McArthur will be a viable option. Their numbers are dismal and there is hardly any buy in from IB families.

Plus the commute is horrendous. Why deal with 45 minutes to 1 hour commute in rush hour traffic each way for a subpar school.

Are families that desperate to stay in the city?

No, we've just seen how schools change and we might have more experience than you do.

I suggest you talk to the Capitol Hill crowd then. SH is still not an acceptable option and overwhelming majority are not sending their kids there.

The stakes are much higher for middle school than elementary. You are so naive.

Actually LT is increasingly sending kids to SH. Watkins always has, but is now less gentrified than it used to be. SH is more gentrified than JOW is. None of the other CH schools feed to SH, so while there are some Brent families with proximity preference, it’s not like other CH families can just decide to go there.

A handful of families going does not make it a majority IB school. Just look at percentages IB and no it is not a majority by any long shot, not even close.

Agree that SH is obviously not majority IB. However, the stats are a little misleading because of its feeders, only LT is majority IB. Kids who don't go to the feeder ESes are likely to opt out of the middle school as well, but not only or even mostly for quality of MS-related reasons. (It is obviously a contributing factor in the sense that some parents lottery into other schools precisely for the feeder; equally, however, many lottery decisions for ES have nothing at all to do with MS, so it's very hard to actually disentangle the factors at play. Also, there is also a time lag effect as schools improve because families opt out of the feeder pattern 5-8 years in advance.) One good question is what percentage of its feeder kids stay for MS and is that number trending up. Additionally, most families on the Hill consider it a "win" in terms of school quality if, e.g., Brent-zoned families choose SH (which many of them have proximity preference for), but those families show up as OOB. Given the complexities of the Hill MS situation, I think the real things that local families want to know are captured by 3 stats (and how those stats are trending): IB %; feeder enrollment %; and Hill family %.

[Anonymous]

Of course, the most frustrating thing about the Hill MS situation is that if they'd just made a Deal for Zone 6, those stats would look totally different. If they zoned Brent, Maury, LT & SWS to one school, IB buy-in would increase overnight. You could also zone every other Hill ES there and have a truly diverse, high quality MS just with a guaranteed big enough cohort for advanced classes. But, no... of course we can't have nice things.

[Anonymous]

^^ And, of course, if you did this, schools like Watkins, JOW, Chisholm and Payne that have majority UMC IBs and lower IB rates would also see increases in IB participation, which are then self-perpetuating. It happened at Brent and then at Maury and then at LT; I think Payne is already in progress, Chisholm could get there as the bilingual shift plays out and JOW is well-positioned post-renovation. But a MS solution would turbo-drive all of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not think McArthur will be a viable option. Their numbers are dismal and there is hardly any buy in from IB families.

Plus the commute is horrendous. Why deal with 45 minutes to 1 hour commute in rush hour traffic each way for a subpar school.

Are families that desperate to stay in the city?

No, we've just seen how schools change and we might have more experience than you do.

I suggest you talk to the Capitol Hill crowd then. SH is still not an acceptable option and overwhelming majority are not sending their kids there.

The stakes are much higher for middle school than elementary. You are so naive.

Actually LT is increasingly sending kids to SH. Watkins always has, but is now less gentrified than it used to be. SH is more gentrified than JOW is. None of the other CH schools feed to SH, so while there are some Brent families with proximity preference, it’s not like other CH families can just decide to go there.

A handful of families going does not make it a majority IB school. Just look at percentages IB and no it is not a majority by any long shot, not even close.

Agree that SH is obviously not majority IB. However, the stats are a little misleading because of its feeders, only LT is majority IB. Kids who don't go to the feeder ESes are likely to opt out of the middle school as well, but not only or even mostly for quality of MS-related reasons. (It is obviously a contributing factor in the sense that some parents lottery into other schools precisely for the feeder; equally, however, many lottery decisions for ES have nothing at all to do with MS, so it's very hard to actually disentangle the factors at play. Also, there is also a time lag effect as schools improve because families opt out of the feeder pattern 5-8 years in advance.) One good question is what percentage of its feeder kids stay for MS and is that number trending up. Additionally, most families on the Hill consider it a "win" in terms of school quality if, e.g., Brent-zoned families choose SH (which many of them have proximity preference for), but those families show up as OOB. Given the complexities of the Hill MS situation, I think the real things that local families want to know are captured by 3 stats (and how those stats are trending): IB %; feeder enrollment %; and Hill family %.

This. You gotta understand the Hill's freakish gerrymandered school boundaries.

This DME spreadsheet tells where students attending each school are in-boundary for. https://dme.dc.gov/node/1741391 Take a look and see that many of the technically OOB students at Hill schools are from other Hill zones. So they might be technically OOB, but you still have the benefits of your kid having friends who live quite close-by.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not think McArthur will be a viable option. Their numbers are dismal and there is hardly any buy in from IB families.

Plus the commute is horrendous. Why deal with 45 minutes to 1 hour commute in rush hour traffic each way for a subpar school.

Are families that desperate to stay in the city?

No, we've just seen how schools change and we might have more experience than you do.

+1. There has been minimal IB buy-in thus far because families had dual feeder rights to JR, and very reasonably families chose the established, known pathway. That has ended and MacArthur is the only feeder for Hardy going forward. And frankly, OP has no good lottery options in upper elementary that will secure her family a feeder pathway through high school, if your only acceptable pathway is Deal-JR. Lotterying into a Hardy feeder still takes lottery luck, but it's better odds than lotterying into a Deal feeder. And if MacArthur still isn't an acceptable option to OP in 5 years, she's at least got a strong middle school pathway for her older child in two years.

Either way, Georgetown and Capitol Hill are apples and oranges. Time will tell, but a school with a solid middle school pathway is better for OP's individual situation this year than putting her fifth grader in an elementary school for one year, then having to lottery again for a new pathway next year. There are frankly NO options with good lottery odds for those grades, particularly if she wants to have one sibling pull the other in, but she can maximize her odds of "better than the IB middle school" by casting as wide of a net as possible this year.

It is not worth it to trek all the way across town for 6 years and a very long commute to go to a Hardy feeder and then Hardy. Look at Hardy’s stats. They are not good especially for math.

I would even argue not worth it for Deal/JR either with long commute.

Honestly OP, just live a little north in Silver Spring, just past DC border for good school pyramid, much cheaper and better housing options, and you won’t have to deal with kids getting to school at all. Take metro if you work in the city.

[Anonymous]

We’ve commuted to a Hardy feeder from Ward 4 for a few years now and it’s WELL worth it. We like that our kids are comfortably socially with all classes and types of people between neighborhood and neighborhood activities and the wealthy kids and diplomatic families from all over the world at school. Hardy is academically rigorous for advanced kids, and fingers crossed Mac develops the same way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We’ve commuted to a Hardy feeder from Ward 4 for a few years now and it’s WELL worth it. We like that our kids are comfortably socially with all classes and types of people between neighborhood and neighborhood activities and the wealthy kids and diplomatic families from all over the world at school. Hardy is academically rigorous for advanced kids, and fingers crossed Mac develops the same way.

I’m the PP. So you recommend that OP trek what at least 40 minutes to WOTP in the morning then another 40 minutes back to her house or downtown to work. Then repeat this process in the afternoon?? So 2 hours and 40 minutes or so everyday for years on end.

It doesn’t sound like Hardy has hardly any cohort of advance kids in math or getting kids there when less then 5% are getting 5 on Cape. At least Deal is much better at close to 20%.

No it is not worth it in my book to give up so many hours of your life and your kids for such a subpar school. But hey, you do you.

[Anonymous]

Alright PP, you sound far from objective and like your knowledge is gained from DCUM and the dcps profile page. So keep

Hardy has as much math acceleration as my kids will need and it’s not as difficult to get into classes or clubs as overcrowded Deal. If you want Basis rigor in DCPS, then no, don’t do any DCPS. But we have bright, A student kids with a variety of interests and needs that can all be met as well at Hardy as Deal, and we like the smaller, more personal experience at Hardy. So that’s worth the 25 minute commute that each parent does once a day. Not to mention their current elementary school is a league above anywhere we considered in Wards 4 and 5.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Alright PP, you sound far from objective and like your knowledge is gained from DCUM and the dcps profile page. So keep

Hardy has as much math acceleration as my kids will need and it’s not as difficult to get into classes or clubs as overcrowded Deal. If you want Basis rigor in DCPS, then no, don’t do any DCPS. But we have bright, A student kids with a variety of interests and needs that can all be met as well at Hardy as Deal, and we like the smaller, more personal experience at Hardy. So that’s worth the 25 minute commute that each parent does once a day. Not to mention their current elementary school is a league above anywhere we considered in Wards 4 and 5.

+1 Agree with this completely

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Alright PP, you sound far from objective and like your knowledge is gained from DCUM and the dcps profile page. So keep

Hardy has as much math acceleration as my kids will need and it’s not as difficult to get into classes or clubs as overcrowded Deal. If you want Basis rigor in DCPS, then no, don’t do any DCPS. But we have bright, A student kids with a variety of interests and needs that can all be met as well at Hardy as Deal, and we like the smaller, more personal experience at Hardy. So that’s worth the 25 minute commute that each parent does once a day. Not to mention their current elementary school is a league above anywhere we considered in Wards 4 and 5.

Listen to this person. It's hard to understand how much better these schools are than EOTP DCPS schools (and we were at one) until you really investigate the curriculum differences and visit and observe classrooms. DCUM and Cape scores miss a lot of the details, and demographics are only relevant in that schools can offer more advanced classwork when they have the students who are ready for it. I would advise you to check it out yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Alright PP, you sound far from objective and like your knowledge is gained from DCUM and the dcps profile page. So keep

Hardy has as much math acceleration as my kids will need and it’s not as difficult to get into classes or clubs as overcrowded Deal. If you want Basis rigor in DCPS, then no, don’t do any DCPS. But we have bright, A student kids with a variety of interests and needs that can all be met as well at Hardy as Deal, and we like the smaller, more personal experience at Hardy. So that’s worth the 25 minute commute that each parent does once a day. Not to mention their current elementary school is a league above anywhere we considered in Wards 4 and 5.

Adding another +1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sent too soon. Other schools in this category, where a whole bunch of kids leave for Latin and BASIS in 5th --Ross plus many of the Capitol Hill schools. If you are open to Stuart Hobson or Francis as a middle school, this is a path that exists.

JO Wilson may be a good option in this category since it's undergoing renovation and is in trailers the first half of next year. Few people want that. But then you get a nice new school to finish out the year in, and a path to Stuart Hobson. Which is not amazing, but is better than most dcps middle schools. You still have to figure out high school because eastern probably isn't going to satisfy you.

JOW won't reopen in its new location until August 2026.