US news states that UMD is #16 in computer science, is that true?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CS Rankings

# Institution Count Faculty
1 ► Carnegie Mellon University
2 ► Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
3 ► Univ. of California - San Diego
4 ► Georgia Institute of Technology
5 ► Massachusetts Institute of Technology
6 ► University of Michigan
7 ► University of Washington
8 ► Univ. of California
9 ► Cornell University
10 ► University of Maryland
11 ► Stanford University
12 ► Northeastern University
13 ► Purdue University
14 ► New York University
14 ► University of Texas at Austin
16 ► Princeton University

You might want to let people know this is data-driven; ranking based on the number of publications. A CS major would like this one. You plan to do a PHD you want to use this ranking. And no dude is manipulating this list. A school can climb the ranking by putting in the work.

The US News one is "poofy" no-one knows why one is ranked higher. A school can climb by lining the pockets of some journalists not in the field.

In both cases UMD was ranked high.

And GMU is highest in VA using CSRankings.

Publications (research output) isn't a very good indication of undergraduate quality.

+1. Research output is VERY important at the PhD level, but correlates in a limited way to quality of undergraduate experience and resources.

[Anonymous]

Meh. I have a graduate degree in computer science. CS should not be a major anymore. It’s a generalist degree these days. It should only be offered as a minor because of AI. There has been a drop in entry level development jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Meh. I have a graduate degree in computer science. CS should not be a major anymore. It’s a generalist degree these days. It should only be offered as a minor because of AI. There has been a drop in entry level development jobs.

Lots of entry level openings for embedded systems C/UNIX programmers who understand operating systems and networking. Experience in ARM assembly also is in demand, since many schools only teach x86 assembly.

[Anonymous]

I got my undergrad in CS from UMD and MS from VT and I am not that impressed with UMD. Not sure why it is ranked that high.

[Anonymous]

UMD is a top contender for all majors these days

[Anonymous]

These field rankings make more sense for grad schools than undergrad cause it’s almost entirely by virtue of research that experts in a field know of each other. I went to a T10 CS school for undergrad and my kid goes to an LAC not even in the top 100, but the quality of their education is vastly better imo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sure. But I don't think that many (any?) professors, graduate students, or undergraduates would choose UMD over Harvard.

Prestige is very sticky, and Harvard resources flow even to its weak spots.

Measuring "where professors prefer to go",

Harvard is #9, and UMD is #15

https://drafty.cs.brown.edu/csopenrankings/placement-rank.html

Harvard is a Liberal Arts research university, not a technical institute or massive state college.

It is smaller program than many other schools, but extremely high quality per-capita.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My kid applied to 5 schools in EA round. Perfect academic record and great ECs too. Applied to 5 schools for EA/ED - MIT, UMD, CMU, UIUC and GTech.

He did ED for CMU because MIT does not have ED. It was actually an extremely stupid move to make. My kid was interested in either MIT or UMD. I made him apply ED to CMU because I thought the rankings were good. My DS was just not jazzed about CMU. Also, did not want UIUC because did not want to be in a cold place. Anyways, when CMU did not work out, I was very happy because I could not believe I was willing to shell out 400K on a school my DS was ambivalent about. No school, not even MIT, is worth 400K for CS. I would rather I give the 400K to my kid to give him a leg up.

He only got into GTech and UMD in EA/ED round. Chose UMD over GTech because there was nothing special that GTech was offering him over UMD in terms of education, experience, internships or opportunity. Got into UMich, Purdue, VTech, UVA, UMBC in the regular round but was not interested and was pissed at me for making him fill the applications (Truthfully, I had panicked because DCUM had told me that we were being too ambitious and had applied to too few colleges)

UMD tuition has been paid by UMD merit scholarship. So we have paid for only room and board and normal living costs. He has also earned a good amount each year by interning.

Most kids who apply to MIT have the creds to apply to any top prestigious school for CS. And as more and more "MIT-worthy" kids come to study in public flagships, their rankings will continue to rise. MIT can only take a few small number of super-achievers. So, it is great that state schools are benefiting by getting these super-achievers. And these kids are also being employed by FAANG companies and other gov, academic and corporate entities.

Harvard is not in consideration for most CS students.

College Scorecard earnings 5 years after graduation for Computer Science BS majors:

Harvard: $219,550
UMD: $144,220

Harvard offers a A.B. (Bachelors of Arts) in CS. My kid chose it over MIT for CS — for the liberal arts education. We did not look for ROI but for the 4 years of undergrad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure. But I don't think that many (any?) professors, graduate students, or undergraduates would choose UMD over Harvard.

Prestige is very sticky, and Harvard resources flow even to its weak spots.

Most people interested in CS or engineering don't even bother applying to Harvard. It's not where the talent or energy is in these fields.

I absolutely believe that Harvard is not the first choice of people interested in CS. MIT, Stanford, Caltech are all more desirable. But are you seriously arguing that ambitious, worldly students apply to MIT and UMD but not other nationally prestigious universities? No. UMD might be a safety for the highest fliers, but they also apply (after MIT and Stanford) to Princeton, Harvard, etc. If the $$ is equal (which, given generous aid at the top privates, it will be except for donut hole families), students choose the high-prestige privates in even if they are ranked lower in their major.

You're wrong. My high flying STEM kid didn't even glance in Harvard's direction. Among ivy league schools, only Princeton and Cornell are any good. And Rice, CMU, Berkeley, UIUC, Stanford, Georgia Tech, Michigan and many other schools are far more interesting places for cs and engineering than Harvard. In this space, Harvard isn't a serious school. Neither is Yale. Talented people who are interested in cs and engineering don't even consider Harvard or Yale.

^^ This. 2 DCs in college majoring in CS. Not interested in Harvard, Dartmouth, Brown or Columbia Applied to MIT, Cornell, Princeton, GT Tech, UIUC, Michigan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure. But I don't think that many (any?) professors, graduate students, or undergraduates would choose UMD over Harvard.

Prestige is very sticky, and Harvard resources flow even to its weak spots.

Most people interested in CS or engineering don't even bother applying to Harvard. It's not where the talent or energy is in these fields.

I absolutely believe that Harvard is not the first choice of people interested in CS. MIT, Stanford, Caltech are all more desirable. But are you seriously arguing that ambitious, worldly students apply to MIT and UMD but not other nationally prestigious universities? No. UMD might be a safety for the highest fliers, but they also apply (after MIT and Stanford) to Princeton, Harvard, etc. If the $$ is equal (which, given generous aid at the top privates, it will be except for donut hole families), students choose the high-prestige privates in even if they are ranked lower in their major.

You're wrong. My high flying STEM kid didn't even glance in Harvard's direction. Among ivy league schools, only Princeton and Cornell are any good. And Rice, CMU, Berkeley, UIUC, Stanford, Georgia Tech, Michigan and many other schools are far more interesting places for cs and engineering than Harvard. In this space, Harvard isn't a serious school. Neither is Yale. Talented people who are interested in cs and engineering don't even consider Harvard or Yale.

^^ This. 2 DCs in college majoring in CS. Not interested in Harvard, Dartmouth, Brown or Columbia Applied to MIT, Cornell, Princeton, GT Tech, UIUC, Michigan.

This is the problem: so many high stats kids applying to the same schools. DS applied to those same schools, plus CMU, Cal, UMD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CS Rankings

# Institution Count Faculty
1 ► Carnegie Mellon University
2 ► Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
3 ► Univ. of California - San Diego
4 ► Georgia Institute of Technology
5 ► Massachusetts Institute of Technology
6 ► University of Michigan
7 ► University of Washington
8 ► Univ. of California
9 ► Cornell University
10 ► University of Maryland
11 ► Stanford University
12 ► Northeastern University
13 ► Purdue University
14 ► New York University
14 ► University of Texas at Austin
16 ► Princeton University

You might want to let people know this is data-driven; ranking based on the number of publications. A CS major would like this one. You plan to do a PHD you want to use this ranking. And no dude is manipulating this list. A school can climb the ranking by putting in the work.

The US News one is "poofy" no-one knows why one is ranked higher. A school can climb by lining the pockets of some journalists not in the field.

In both cases UMD was ranked high.

And GMU is highest in VA using CSRankings.

Publications (research output) isn't a very good indication of undergraduate quality.

+1. Research output is VERY important at the PhD level, but correlates in a limited way to quality of undergraduate experience and resources.

Bringing it back - what is a good indication of undergraduate quality? This ranking by CodeSignal: https://codesignal.com/university-ranking-report-2023 ?

UMD is no where in the picture (as with Harvard) and Stony Brook has jumped to #2. I can measure publications and CodeSignal looks at graduating skillset. Besides "its good" we really don't have a way to quantitively measure/compare CS schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CS Rankings

# Institution Count Faculty
1 ► Carnegie Mellon University
2 ► Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
3 ► Univ. of California - San Diego
4 ► Georgia Institute of Technology
5 ► Massachusetts Institute of Technology
6 ► University of Michigan
7 ► University of Washington
8 ► Univ. of California
9 ► Cornell University
10 ► University of Maryland
11 ► Stanford University
12 ► Northeastern University
13 ► Purdue University
14 ► New York University
14 ► University of Texas at Austin
16 ► Princeton University

You might want to let people know this is data-driven; ranking based on the number of publications. A CS major would like this one. You plan to do a PHD you want to use this ranking. And no dude is manipulating this list. A school can climb the ranking by putting in the work.

The US News one is "poofy" no-one knows why one is ranked higher. A school can climb by lining the pockets of some journalists not in the field.

In both cases UMD was ranked high.

And GMU is highest in VA using CSRankings.

Publications (research output) isn't a very good indication of undergraduate quality.

+1. Research output is VERY important at the PhD level, but correlates in a limited way to quality of undergraduate experience and resources.

Bringing it back - what is a good indication of undergraduate quality? This ranking by CodeSignal: https://codesignal.com/university-ranking-report-2023 ?

UMD is no where in the picture (as with Harvard) and Stony Brook has jumped to #2. I can measure publications and CodeSignal looks at graduating skillset. Besides "its good" we really don't have a way to quantitively measure/compare CS schools.

CodeSignal appears to only rank schools where a threshold number of students (30) have taken their test in a given calendar year. Not every company uses them (Google results show around ~100 customer for less than 1% market share.) They are probably best for evaluating the largest schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CS Rankings

# Institution Count Faculty
1 ► Carnegie Mellon University
2 ► Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
3 ► Univ. of California - San Diego
4 ► Georgia Institute of Technology
5 ► Massachusetts Institute of Technology
6 ► University of Michigan
7 ► University of Washington
8 ► Univ. of California
9 ► Cornell University
10 ► University of Maryland
11 ► Stanford University
12 ► Northeastern University
13 ► Purdue University
14 ► New York University
14 ► University of Texas at Austin
16 ► Princeton University

You might want to let people know this is data-driven; ranking based on the number of publications. A CS major would like this one. You plan to do a PHD you want to use this ranking. And no dude is manipulating this list. A school can climb the ranking by putting in the work.

The US News one is "poofy" no-one knows why one is ranked higher. A school can climb by lining the pockets of some journalists not in the field.

In both cases UMD was ranked high.

And GMU is highest in VA using CSRankings.

Publications (research output) isn't a very good indication of undergraduate quality.

+1. Research output is VERY important at the PhD level, but correlates in a limited way to quality of undergraduate experience and resources.

Bringing it back - what is a good indication of undergraduate quality? This ranking by CodeSignal: https://codesignal.com/university-ranking-report-2023 ?

UMD is no where in the picture (as with Harvard) and Stony Brook has jumped to #2. I can measure publications and CodeSignal looks at graduating skillset. Besides "its good" we really don't have a way to quantitively measure/compare CS schools.

Feel better?

[Anonymous]

Stanford is the way to go. Top CS program in a balanced liberal arts curriculum. Best of both worlds. Only problem is getting in…..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CS Rankings

# Institution Count Faculty
1 ► Carnegie Mellon University
2 ► Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
3 ► Univ. of California - San Diego
4 ► Georgia Institute of Technology
5 ► Massachusetts Institute of Technology
6 ► University of Michigan
7 ► University of Washington
8 ► Univ. of California
9 ► Cornell University
10 ► University of Maryland
11 ► Stanford University
12 ► Northeastern University
13 ► Purdue University
14 ► New York University
14 ► University of Texas at Austin
16 ► Princeton University

You might want to let people know this is data-driven; ranking based on the number of publications. A CS major would like this one. You plan to do a PHD you want to use this ranking. And no dude is manipulating this list. A school can climb the ranking by putting in the work.

The US News one is "poofy" no-one knows why one is ranked higher. A school can climb by lining the pockets of some journalists not in the field.

In both cases UMD was ranked high.

And GMU is highest in VA using CSRankings.

Publications (research output) isn't a very good indication of undergraduate quality.

+1. Research output is VERY important at the PhD level, but correlates in a limited way to quality of undergraduate experience and resources.

Bringing it back - what is a good indication of undergraduate quality? This ranking by CodeSignal: https://codesignal.com/university-ranking-report-2023 ?

UMD is no where in the picture (as with Harvard) and Stony Brook has jumped to #2. I can measure publications and CodeSignal looks at graduating skillset. Besides "its good" we really don't have a way to quantitively measure/compare CS schools.

Feel better?

It wasn't a dig at any school - I was just saying that there are a lot of different ways to measure a CS program. Trying to move the conversation forward towards a good metric. No dog in this fight.

What did you take offense to?