What tips an AO's decision for a cusp candidate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a lot more to algorithms and scoring (fake standardization) of subjective items like essays and ECs, along with factors affecting yield that may weigh more heavily in the algorithm, than about being "compelling." And yes, I would assume that institutional priorities would be very heavy factors in said algorithm.

I think being "compelling" goes only to the subjectively scored factors and makes AOs feel like they're doing a good job, but the algorithm is the actual decider. Somewhere on that Slate application view, there will be numerical scores.

How would they score essays, ECs and LOR? Who is scoring it? AI?

In most cases, I think humans do the scoring. Some colleges (UNC, see a recent article from their student news) have AI score the writing of the essay, such as grammar, etc., but I don't think most explicitly consider writing quality anymore. It's more about getting to know the student, all very subjective stuff.

I think someone put together a summary of some of the scoring rubrics on this site. It talks about scoring for various parts of the application. This link explains how it is scored - for Stanford, Harvard, Penn, Duke, Northwestern, and Cornell.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1224166.page

The last page of that thread defines "compelling" for most T10 (copied below), I think. It helped my kid prepare for the last round of interviews.


Found this about Duke (on Reddit from the email from AO to alumni interviewers) which gives insight into what they are looking for:

We know that almost all of our applicants have the academic preparation and extracurricular accomplishments to be successful Duke students. The Admissions Office's challenge is sometimes understanding which students might add something that would particularly benefit the Duke community. Some of these qualities might include:

a particular maturity or depth of thought
a striking accomplishment or unusual and authentic depth of commitment to an interest
a notable sense of imagination, curiosity or creativity
a perspective or experiences atypical of the student body
a demonstrated sense of compassion or concern for others
a resilience in response to challenging circumstances or events.

How thoughtful or reflective is the applicant compared to their peers?
How engaged is the applicant in their commitments and why do they matter to them?
Is there a personal quality of the applicant that stands out even among the most high-achieving and engaged applicants?
Is there anything specific you think they might add to the university community?
What is their sense of Duke, and how well do they know us?

Are Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Yale, Stanford not looking for these things? Only Duke?

a particular maturity or depth of thought
a striking accomplishment or unusual and authentic depth of commitment to an interest
a notable sense of imagination, curiosity or creativity
a perspective or experiences atypical of the student body
a demonstrated sense of compassion or concern for others
a resilience in response to challenging circumstances or events.

Asking because I am really curious which schools that don't value these things:

maturity, curiosity, creativity, imagination, unusual experiences, resilience, compassion and striking accomplishment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a lot more to algorithms and scoring (fake standardization) of subjective items like essays and ECs, along with factors affecting yield that may weigh more heavily in the algorithm, than about being "compelling." And yes, I would assume that institutional priorities would be very heavy factors in said algorithm.

I think being "compelling" goes only to the subjectively scored factors and makes AOs feel like they're doing a good job, but the algorithm is the actual decider. Somewhere on that Slate application view, there will be numerical scores.

How would they score essays, ECs and LOR? Who is scoring it? AI?

In most cases, I think humans do the scoring. Some colleges (UNC, see a recent article from their student news) have AI score the writing of the essay, such as grammar, etc., but I don't think most explicitly consider writing quality anymore. It's more about getting to know the student, all very subjective stuff.

I think someone put together a summary of some of the scoring rubrics on this site. It talks about scoring for various parts of the application. This link explains how it is scored - for Stanford, Harvard, Penn, Duke, Northwestern, and Cornell.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1224166.page

The last page of that thread defines "compelling" for most T10 (copied below), I think. It helped my kid prepare for the last round of interviews.


Found this about Duke (on Reddit from the email from AO to alumni interviewers) which gives insight into what they are looking for:

We know that almost all of our applicants have the academic preparation and extracurricular accomplishments to be successful Duke students. The Admissions Office's challenge is sometimes understanding which students might add something that would particularly benefit the Duke community. Some of these qualities might include:

a particular maturity or depth of thought
a striking accomplishment or unusual and authentic depth of commitment to an interest
a notable sense of imagination, curiosity or creativity
a perspective or experiences atypical of the student body
a demonstrated sense of compassion or concern for others
a resilience in response to challenging circumstances or events.

How thoughtful or reflective is the applicant compared to their peers?
How engaged is the applicant in their commitments and why do they matter to them?
Is there a personal quality of the applicant that stands out even among the most high-achieving and engaged applicants?
Is there anything specific you think they might add to the university community?
What is their sense of Duke, and how well do they know us?

Are Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Yale, Stanford not looking for these things? Only Duke?

a particular maturity or depth of thought
a striking accomplishment or unusual and authentic depth of commitment to an interest
a notable sense of imagination, curiosity or creativity
a perspective or experiences atypical of the student body
a demonstrated sense of compassion or concern for others
a resilience in response to challenging circumstances or events.

I think they all are? Duke published it though for their alumni interviewers.

Lies they tell themselves often enough that they start believing it.

They also say that writing the two essays are completely optional and would have no impact on admissions. Do you believe that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a lot more to algorithms and scoring (fake standardization) of subjective items like essays and ECs, along with factors affecting yield that may weigh more heavily in the algorithm, than about being "compelling." And yes, I would assume that institutional priorities would be very heavy factors in said algorithm.

I think being "compelling" goes only to the subjectively scored factors and makes AOs feel like they're doing a good job, but the algorithm is the actual decider. Somewhere on that Slate application view, there will be numerical scores.

How would they score essays, ECs and LOR? Who is scoring it? AI?

In most cases, I think humans do the scoring. Some colleges (UNC, see a recent article from their student news) have AI score the writing of the essay, such as grammar, etc., but I don't think most explicitly consider writing quality anymore. It's more about getting to know the student, all very subjective stuff.

I think someone put together a summary of some of the scoring rubrics on this site. It talks about scoring for various parts of the application. This link explains how it is scored - for Stanford, Harvard, Penn, Duke, Northwestern, and Cornell.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1224166.page

The last page of that thread defines "compelling" for most T10 (copied below), I think. It helped my kid prepare for the last round of interviews.


Found this about Duke (on Reddit from the email from AO to alumni interviewers) which gives insight into what they are looking for:

We know that almost all of our applicants have the academic preparation and extracurricular accomplishments to be successful Duke students. The Admissions Office's challenge is sometimes understanding which students might add something that would particularly benefit the Duke community. Some of these qualities might include:

a particular maturity or depth of thought
a striking accomplishment or unusual and authentic depth of commitment to an interest
a notable sense of imagination, curiosity or creativity
a perspective or experiences atypical of the student body
a demonstrated sense of compassion or concern for others
a resilience in response to challenging circumstances or events.

How thoughtful or reflective is the applicant compared to their peers?
How engaged is the applicant in their commitments and why do they matter to them?
Is there a personal quality of the applicant that stands out even among the most high-achieving and engaged applicants?
Is there anything specific you think they might add to the university community?
What is their sense of Duke, and how well do they know us?

Are Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Yale, Stanford not looking for these things? Only Duke?

a particular maturity or depth of thought
a striking accomplishment or unusual and authentic depth of commitment to an interest
a notable sense of imagination, curiosity or creativity
a perspective or experiences atypical of the student body
a demonstrated sense of compassion or concern for others
a resilience in response to challenging circumstances or events.

Asking because I am really curious which schools that don't value these things:

maturity, curiosity, creativity, imagination, unusual experiences, resilience, compassion and striking accomplishment.

I'd imagine all selective schools do. Have you seen them lay it out like this? Duke did in an alumni email to their interviewers - maybe the others do something similar?
Its interesting if they are "scoring" for these categories.
AI can probably do a search of all submitted materials and create a score for each category based on submitted materials.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a lot more to algorithms and scoring (fake standardization) of subjective items like essays and ECs, along with factors affecting yield that may weigh more heavily in the algorithm, than about being "compelling." And yes, I would assume that institutional priorities would be very heavy factors in said algorithm.

I think being "compelling" goes only to the subjectively scored factors and makes AOs feel like they're doing a good job, but the algorithm is the actual decider. Somewhere on that Slate application view, there will be numerical scores.

How would they score essays, ECs and LOR? Who is scoring it? AI?

In most cases, I think humans do the scoring. Some colleges (UNC, see a recent article from their student news) have AI score the writing of the essay, such as grammar, etc., but I don't think most explicitly consider writing quality anymore. It's more about getting to know the student, all very subjective stuff.

I think someone put together a summary of some of the scoring rubrics on this site. It talks about scoring for various parts of the application. This link explains how it is scored - for Stanford, Harvard, Penn, Duke, Northwestern, and Cornell.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1224166.page

The last page of that thread defines "compelling" for most T10 (copied below), I think. It helped my kid prepare for the last round of interviews.


Found this about Duke (on Reddit from the email from AO to alumni interviewers) which gives insight into what they are looking for:

We know that almost all of our applicants have the academic preparation and extracurricular accomplishments to be successful Duke students. The Admissions Office's challenge is sometimes understanding which students might add something that would particularly benefit the Duke community. Some of these qualities might include:

a particular maturity or depth of thought
a striking accomplishment or unusual and authentic depth of commitment to an interest
a notable sense of imagination, curiosity or creativity
a perspective or experiences atypical of the student body
a demonstrated sense of compassion or concern for others
a resilience in response to challenging circumstances or events.

How thoughtful or reflective is the applicant compared to their peers?
How engaged is the applicant in their commitments and why do they matter to them?
Is there a personal quality of the applicant that stands out even among the most high-achieving and engaged applicants?
Is there anything specific you think they might add to the university community?
What is their sense of Duke, and how well do they know us?

Are Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Yale, Stanford not looking for these things? Only Duke?

a particular maturity or depth of thought
a striking accomplishment or unusual and authentic depth of commitment to an interest
a notable sense of imagination, curiosity or creativity
a perspective or experiences atypical of the student body
a demonstrated sense of compassion or concern for others
a resilience in response to challenging circumstances or events.

I think they all are? Duke published it though for their alumni interviewers.

Lies they tell themselves often enough that they start believing it.

They also say that writing the two essays are completely optional and would have no impact on admissions. Do you believe that?

No that's for the athletes. Its a Div 1 school. Do a little digging about Duke and you'll find out what they want to see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a lot more to algorithms and scoring (fake standardization) of subjective items like essays and ECs, along with factors affecting yield that may weigh more heavily in the algorithm, than about being "compelling." And yes, I would assume that institutional priorities would be very heavy factors in said algorithm.

I think being "compelling" goes only to the subjectively scored factors and makes AOs feel like they're doing a good job, but the algorithm is the actual decider. Somewhere on that Slate application view, there will be numerical scores.

How would they score essays, ECs and LOR? Who is scoring it? AI?

In most cases, I think humans do the scoring. Some colleges (UNC, see a recent article from their student news) have AI score the writing of the essay, such as grammar, etc., but I don't think most explicitly consider writing quality anymore. It's more about getting to know the student, all very subjective stuff.

I think someone put together a summary of some of the scoring rubrics on this site. It talks about scoring for various parts of the application. This link explains how it is scored - for Stanford, Harvard, Penn, Duke, Northwestern, and Cornell.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1224166.page

The last page of that thread defines "compelling" for most T10 (copied below), I think. It helped my kid prepare for the last round of interviews.


Found this about Duke (on Reddit from the email from AO to alumni interviewers) which gives insight into what they are looking for:

We know that almost all of our applicants have the academic preparation and extracurricular accomplishments to be successful Duke students. The Admissions Office's challenge is sometimes understanding which students might add something that would particularly benefit the Duke community. Some of these qualities might include:

a particular maturity or depth of thought
a striking accomplishment or unusual and authentic depth of commitment to an interest
a notable sense of imagination, curiosity or creativity
a perspective or experiences atypical of the student body
a demonstrated sense of compassion or concern for others
a resilience in response to challenging circumstances or events.

How thoughtful or reflective is the applicant compared to their peers?
How engaged is the applicant in their commitments and why do they matter to them?
Is there a personal quality of the applicant that stands out even among the most high-achieving and engaged applicants?
Is there anything specific you think they might add to the university community?
What is their sense of Duke, and how well do they know us?

Are Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Yale, Stanford not looking for these things? Only Duke?

a particular maturity or depth of thought
a striking accomplishment or unusual and authentic depth of commitment to an interest
a notable sense of imagination, curiosity or creativity
a perspective or experiences atypical of the student body
a demonstrated sense of compassion or concern for others
a resilience in response to challenging circumstances or events.

I think they all are? Duke published it though for their alumni interviewers.

Lies they tell themselves often enough that they start believing it.

They also say that writing the two essays are completely optional and would have no impact on admissions. Do you believe that?

No that's for the athletes. Its a Div 1 school. Do a little digging about Duke and you'll find out what they want to see.

You are wrong. Just look at common app or their website. Two essays are optional for everyone not just athletes.

From Duke website:

"We want to emphasize that the following questions are optional. Feel free to answer one or
two if you believe that doing so will add something meaningful that is not already shared
elsewhere in your application. Five optional questions are available – a maximum of 2 can be selected."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a lot more to algorithms and scoring (fake standardization) of subjective items like essays and ECs, along with factors affecting yield that may weigh more heavily in the algorithm, than about being "compelling." And yes, I would assume that institutional priorities would be very heavy factors in said algorithm.

I think being "compelling" goes only to the subjectively scored factors and makes AOs feel like they're doing a good job, but the algorithm is the actual decider. Somewhere on that Slate application view, there will be numerical scores.

How would they score essays, ECs and LOR? Who is scoring it? AI?

In most cases, I think humans do the scoring. Some colleges (UNC, see a recent article from their student news) have AI score the writing of the essay, such as grammar, etc., but I don't think most explicitly consider writing quality anymore. It's more about getting to know the student, all very subjective stuff.

I think someone put together a summary of some of the scoring rubrics on this site. It talks about scoring for various parts of the application. This link explains how it is scored - for Stanford, Harvard, Penn, Duke, Northwestern, and Cornell.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1224166.page

The last page of that thread defines "compelling" for most T10 (copied below), I think. It helped my kid prepare for the last round of interviews.


Found this about Duke (on Reddit from the email from AO to alumni interviewers) which gives insight into what they are looking for:

We know that almost all of our applicants have the academic preparation and extracurricular accomplishments to be successful Duke students. The Admissions Office's challenge is sometimes understanding which students might add something that would particularly benefit the Duke community. Some of these qualities might include:

a particular maturity or depth of thought
a striking accomplishment or unusual and authentic depth of commitment to an interest
a notable sense of imagination, curiosity or creativity
a perspective or experiences atypical of the student body
a demonstrated sense of compassion or concern for others
a resilience in response to challenging circumstances or events.

How thoughtful or reflective is the applicant compared to their peers?
How engaged is the applicant in their commitments and why do they matter to them?
Is there a personal quality of the applicant that stands out even among the most high-achieving and engaged applicants?
Is there anything specific you think they might add to the university community?
What is their sense of Duke, and how well do they know us?

Are Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Yale, Stanford not looking for these things? Only Duke?

a particular maturity or depth of thought
a striking accomplishment or unusual and authentic depth of commitment to an interest
a notable sense of imagination, curiosity or creativity
a perspective or experiences atypical of the student body
a demonstrated sense of compassion or concern for others
a resilience in response to challenging circumstances or events.

Asking because I am really curious which schools that don't value these things:

maturity, curiosity, creativity, imagination, unusual experiences, resilience, compassion and striking accomplishment.

I'd imagine all selective schools do. Have you seen them lay it out like this? Duke did in an alumni email to their interviewers - maybe the others do something similar?
Its interesting if they are "scoring" for these categories.
AI can probably do a search of all submitted materials and create a score for each category based on submitted materials.

Yes. If you dig enough you will find. I found for 4 of the HYPSM, because my child had interviews at 4 and they all boil down to the exact same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a lot more to algorithms and scoring (fake standardization) of subjective items like essays and ECs, along with factors affecting yield that may weigh more heavily in the algorithm, than about being "compelling." And yes, I would assume that institutional priorities would be very heavy factors in said algorithm.

I think being "compelling" goes only to the subjectively scored factors and makes AOs feel like they're doing a good job, but the algorithm is the actual decider. Somewhere on that Slate application view, there will be numerical scores.

How would they score essays, ECs and LOR? Who is scoring it? AI?

In most cases, I think humans do the scoring. Some colleges (UNC, see a recent article from their student news) have AI score the writing of the essay, such as grammar, etc., but I don't think most explicitly consider writing quality anymore. It's more about getting to know the student, all very subjective stuff.

I think someone put together a summary of some of the scoring rubrics on this site. It talks about scoring for various parts of the application. This link explains how it is scored - for Stanford, Harvard, Penn, Duke, Northwestern, and Cornell.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1224166.page

The last page of that thread defines "compelling" for most T10 (copied below), I think. It helped my kid prepare for the last round of interviews.


Found this about Duke (on Reddit from the email from AO to alumni interviewers) which gives insight into what they are looking for:

We know that almost all of our applicants have the academic preparation and extracurricular accomplishments to be successful Duke students. The Admissions Office's challenge is sometimes understanding which students might add something that would particularly benefit the Duke community. Some of these qualities might include:

a particular maturity or depth of thought
a striking accomplishment or unusual and authentic depth of commitment to an interest
a notable sense of imagination, curiosity or creativity
a perspective or experiences atypical of the student body
a demonstrated sense of compassion or concern for others
a resilience in response to challenging circumstances or events.

How thoughtful or reflective is the applicant compared to their peers?
How engaged is the applicant in their commitments and why do they matter to them?
Is there a personal quality of the applicant that stands out even among the most high-achieving and engaged applicants?
Is there anything specific you think they might add to the university community?
What is their sense of Duke, and how well do they know us?

Are Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Yale, Stanford not looking for these things? Only Duke?

a particular maturity or depth of thought
a striking accomplishment or unusual and authentic depth of commitment to an interest
a notable sense of imagination, curiosity or creativity
a perspective or experiences atypical of the student body
a demonstrated sense of compassion or concern for others
a resilience in response to challenging circumstances or events.

I think they all are? Duke published it though for their alumni interviewers.

Lies they tell themselves often enough that they start believing it.

They also say that writing the two essays are completely optional and would have no impact on admissions. Do you believe that?

No that's for the athletes. Its a Div 1 school. Do a little digging about Duke and you'll find out what they want to see.

You are wrong. Just look at common app or their website. Two essays are optional for everyone not just athletes.

From Duke website:

"We want to emphasize that the following questions are optional. Feel free to answer one or
two if you believe that doing so will add something meaningful that is not already shared
elsewhere in your application. Five optional questions are available – a maximum of 2 can be selected."

omg. ofc they are optional for "EVERYONE." They can't say it's only optional for Div 1 athletes!
Why do you think Northwestern does the same thing? Also, Div 1.

It's the classic definition of institutional priorities (and Duke has a new priority with NC/SC). The athletes have the option (and many do) to do just the 1 required essay. My DC is good friends with recruited athletes who committed to both NU and Duke - they did a minimal amount of essays for ED.

Speaking of Duke - you can see a ton from all of their tableau visualization charts. For example, I saw that the 1st choice major my DC applied to had only 4 graduates in 2024 and 1 in 2025.....
I know everyone goes into Trinity undecided, but strategic positioning is extremely important at Duke (for any junior parents out there).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a lot more to algorithms and scoring (fake standardization) of subjective items like essays and ECs, along with factors affecting yield that may weigh more heavily in the algorithm, than about being "compelling." And yes, I would assume that institutional priorities would be very heavy factors in said algorithm.

I think being "compelling" goes only to the subjectively scored factors and makes AOs feel like they're doing a good job, but the algorithm is the actual decider. Somewhere on that Slate application view, there will be numerical scores.

How would they score essays, ECs and LOR? Who is scoring it? AI?

In most cases, I think humans do the scoring. Some colleges (UNC, see a recent article from their student news) have AI score the writing of the essay, such as grammar, etc., but I don't think most explicitly consider writing quality anymore. It's more about getting to know the student, all very subjective stuff.

I think someone put together a summary of some of the scoring rubrics on this site. It talks about scoring for various parts of the application. This link explains how it is scored - for Stanford, Harvard, Penn, Duke, Northwestern, and Cornell.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1224166.page

The last page of that thread defines "compelling" for most T10 (copied below), I think. It helped my kid prepare for the last round of interviews.


Found this about Duke (on Reddit from the email from AO to alumni interviewers) which gives insight into what they are looking for:

We know that almost all of our applicants have the academic preparation and extracurricular accomplishments to be successful Duke students. The Admissions Office's challenge is sometimes understanding which students might add something that would particularly benefit the Duke community. Some of these qualities might include:

a particular maturity or depth of thought
a striking accomplishment or unusual and authentic depth of commitment to an interest
a notable sense of imagination, curiosity or creativity
a perspective or experiences atypical of the student body
a demonstrated sense of compassion or concern for others
a resilience in response to challenging circumstances or events.

How thoughtful or reflective is the applicant compared to their peers?
How engaged is the applicant in their commitments and why do they matter to them?
Is there a personal quality of the applicant that stands out even among the most high-achieving and engaged applicants?
Is there anything specific you think they might add to the university community?
What is their sense of Duke, and how well do they know us?

Are Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Yale, Stanford not looking for these things? Only Duke?

a particular maturity or depth of thought
a striking accomplishment or unusual and authentic depth of commitment to an interest
a notable sense of imagination, curiosity or creativity
a perspective or experiences atypical of the student body
a demonstrated sense of compassion or concern for others
a resilience in response to challenging circumstances or events.

I think they all are? Duke published it though for their alumni interviewers.

Lies they tell themselves often enough that they start believing it.

They also say that writing the two essays are completely optional and would have no impact on admissions. Do you believe that?

No that's for the athletes. Its a Div 1 school. Do a little digging about Duke and you'll find out what they want to see.

You are wrong. Just look at common app or their website. Two essays are optional for everyone not just athletes.

From Duke website:

"We want to emphasize that the following questions are optional. Feel free to answer one or
two if you believe that doing so will add something meaningful that is not already shared
elsewhere in your application. Five optional questions are available – a maximum of 2 can be selected."

omg. ofc they are optional for "EVERYONE." They can't say it's only optional for Div 1 athletes!
Why do you think Northwestern does the same thing? Also, Div 1.

It's the classic definition of institutional priorities (and Duke has a new priority with NC/SC). The athletes have the option (and many do) to do just the 1 required essay. My DC is good friends with recruited athletes who committed to both NU and Duke - they did a minimal amount of essays for ED.

Speaking of Duke - you can see a ton from all of their tableau visualization charts. For example, I saw that the 1st choice major my DC applied to had only 4 graduates in 2024 and 1 in 2025.....
I know everyone goes into Trinity undecided, but strategic positioning is extremely important at Duke (for any junior parents out there).

Eh, don’t really buy the “undersubscribed major gets you in” argument. My high stat dc applied for an undersubscribed major with ECs, national awards, recommendations, etc. WL at Duke, Cornell, Northwestern, WashU. Rejected Princeton and Vandy. Ended up at her first choice ED/deferred Ivy but still.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a lot more to algorithms and scoring (fake standardization) of subjective items like essays and ECs, along with factors affecting yield that may weigh more heavily in the algorithm, than about being "compelling." And yes, I would assume that institutional priorities would be very heavy factors in said algorithm.

I think being "compelling" goes only to the subjectively scored factors and makes AOs feel like they're doing a good job, but the algorithm is the actual decider. Somewhere on that Slate application view, there will be numerical scores.

How would they score essays, ECs and LOR? Who is scoring it? AI?

In most cases, I think humans do the scoring. Some colleges (UNC, see a recent article from their student news) have AI score the writing of the essay, such as grammar, etc., but I don't think most explicitly consider writing quality anymore. It's more about getting to know the student, all very subjective stuff.

I think someone put together a summary of some of the scoring rubrics on this site. It talks about scoring for various parts of the application. This link explains how it is scored - for Stanford, Harvard, Penn, Duke, Northwestern, and Cornell.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1224166.page

The last page of that thread defines "compelling" for most T10 (copied below), I think. It helped my kid prepare for the last round of interviews.


Found this about Duke (on Reddit from the email from AO to alumni interviewers) which gives insight into what they are looking for:

We know that almost all of our applicants have the academic preparation and extracurricular accomplishments to be successful Duke students. The Admissions Office's challenge is sometimes understanding which students might add something that would particularly benefit the Duke community. Some of these qualities might include:

a particular maturity or depth of thought
a striking accomplishment or unusual and authentic depth of commitment to an interest
a notable sense of imagination, curiosity or creativity
a perspective or experiences atypical of the student body
a demonstrated sense of compassion or concern for others
a resilience in response to challenging circumstances or events.

How thoughtful or reflective is the applicant compared to their peers?
How engaged is the applicant in their commitments and why do they matter to them?
Is there a personal quality of the applicant that stands out even among the most high-achieving and engaged applicants?
Is there anything specific you think they might add to the university community?
What is their sense of Duke, and how well do they know us?

Are Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Yale, Stanford not looking for these things? Only Duke?

a particular maturity or depth of thought
a striking accomplishment or unusual and authentic depth of commitment to an interest
a notable sense of imagination, curiosity or creativity
a perspective or experiences atypical of the student body
a demonstrated sense of compassion or concern for others
a resilience in response to challenging circumstances or events.

I think they all are? Duke published it though for their alumni interviewers.

Lies they tell themselves often enough that they start believing it.

They also say that writing the two essays are completely optional and would have no impact on admissions. Do you believe that?

No that's for the athletes. Its a Div 1 school. Do a little digging about Duke and you'll find out what they want to see.

You are wrong. Just look at common app or their website. Two essays are optional for everyone not just athletes.

From Duke website:

"We want to emphasize that the following questions are optional. Feel free to answer one or
two if you believe that doing so will add something meaningful that is not already shared
elsewhere in your application. Five optional questions are available – a maximum of 2 can be selected."

omg. ofc they are optional for "EVERYONE." They can't say it's only optional for Div 1 athletes!
Why do you think Northwestern does the same thing? Also, Div 1.

It's the classic definition of institutional priorities (and Duke has a new priority with NC/SC). The athletes have the option (and many do) to do just the 1 required essay. My DC is good friends with recruited athletes who committed to both NU and Duke - they did a minimal amount of essays for ED.

Speaking of Duke - you can see a ton from all of their tableau visualization charts. For example, I saw that the 1st choice major my DC applied to had only 4 graduates in 2024 and 1 in 2025.....
I know everyone goes into Trinity undecided, but strategic positioning is extremely important at Duke (for any junior parents out there).

This is a bunch of admissions counselors goobledock! To make it seem like hiring them would unlock these secrets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a lot more to algorithms and scoring (fake standardization) of subjective items like essays and ECs, along with factors affecting yield that may weigh more heavily in the algorithm, than about being "compelling." And yes, I would assume that institutional priorities would be very heavy factors in said algorithm.

I think being "compelling" goes only to the subjectively scored factors and makes AOs feel like they're doing a good job, but the algorithm is the actual decider. Somewhere on that Slate application view, there will be numerical scores.

How would they score essays, ECs and LOR? Who is scoring it? AI?

In most cases, I think humans do the scoring. Some colleges (UNC, see a recent article from their student news) have AI score the writing of the essay, such as grammar, etc., but I don't think most explicitly consider writing quality anymore. It's more about getting to know the student, all very subjective stuff.

I think someone put together a summary of some of the scoring rubrics on this site. It talks about scoring for various parts of the application. This link explains how it is scored - for Stanford, Harvard, Penn, Duke, Northwestern, and Cornell.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1224166.page

The last page of that thread defines "compelling" for most T10 (copied below), I think. It helped my kid prepare for the last round of interviews.


Found this about Duke (on Reddit from the email from AO to alumni interviewers) which gives insight into what they are looking for:

We know that almost all of our applicants have the academic preparation and extracurricular accomplishments to be successful Duke students. The Admissions Office's challenge is sometimes understanding which students might add something that would particularly benefit the Duke community. Some of these qualities might include:

a particular maturity or depth of thought
a striking accomplishment or unusual and authentic depth of commitment to an interest
a notable sense of imagination, curiosity or creativity
a perspective or experiences atypical of the student body
a demonstrated sense of compassion or concern for others
a resilience in response to challenging circumstances or events.

How thoughtful or reflective is the applicant compared to their peers?
How engaged is the applicant in their commitments and why do they matter to them?
Is there a personal quality of the applicant that stands out even among the most high-achieving and engaged applicants?
Is there anything specific you think they might add to the university community?
What is their sense of Duke, and how well do they know us?

Are Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Yale, Stanford not looking for these things? Only Duke?

a particular maturity or depth of thought
a striking accomplishment or unusual and authentic depth of commitment to an interest
a notable sense of imagination, curiosity or creativity
a perspective or experiences atypical of the student body
a demonstrated sense of compassion or concern for others
a resilience in response to challenging circumstances or events.

I think they all are? Duke published it though for their alumni interviewers.

Lies they tell themselves often enough that they start believing it.

They also say that writing the two essays are completely optional and would have no impact on admissions. Do you believe that?

No that's for the athletes. Its a Div 1 school. Do a little digging about Duke and you'll find out what they want to see.

You are wrong. Just look at common app or their website. Two essays are optional for everyone not just athletes.

From Duke website:

"We want to emphasize that the following questions are optional. Feel free to answer one or
two if you believe that doing so will add something meaningful that is not already shared
elsewhere in your application. Five optional questions are available – a maximum of 2 can be selected."

omg. ofc they are optional for "EVERYONE." They can't say it's only optional for Div 1 athletes!
Why do you think Northwestern does the same thing? Also, Div 1.

It's the classic definition of institutional priorities (and Duke has a new priority with NC/SC). The athletes have the option (and many do) to do just the 1 required essay. My DC is good friends with recruited athletes who committed to both NU and Duke - they did a minimal amount of essays for ED.

Speaking of Duke - you can see a ton from all of their tableau visualization charts. For example, I saw that the 1st choice major my DC applied to had only 4 graduates in 2024 and 1 in 2025.....
I know everyone goes into Trinity undecided, but strategic positioning is extremely important at Duke (for any junior parents out there).

This is a bunch of admissions counselors goobledock! To make it seem like hiring them would unlock these secrets.

I’ll let you know how it goes.

[Anonymous]

Good YCBK episode from this week dealt with some of this:

“And I said, you know, what has really stood out to me this year is that the students who leave a real lasting impression and the ones who I am really motivated to advocate for are the ones who are really authentic.

They are just themselves, and they are a person who no one else could be.”

“It was who she is as a person and that she's just engaged in a really interesting mix of things, and she reflects on those things that she's doing in an interesting way and in a way that nobody else could do exactly the same things that she's doing or speak about them in exactly the same way that she's speaking about the”

“Because when students just lean into who they are, that really stands out in the application. And we want to get to know students who are all going to bring something different and something interesting.”

“Even more than impressive test scores or great transcripts or fantastic essays, colleges are looking for authenticity. Not the appearance of authenticity, not the packaging of authenticity, not the strategy of authenticity, just authenticity. Plain and simple.

“So you've mentioned the word reflective several times. How much of this is coming through in the personal statement or in the writing portions of the application? Is that where you feel you see it the most?

I'm sure it's consistent with everything, though. It's a consistent pattern throughout the application. But is that where you're most likely to have it grab you?

Yeah, for sure. Like, there are so many times when we will write in the comments on an essay that this was all narrative, no reflection, right? They told a story, but they didn't tell us what the story meant to them.”

From Your College Bound Kid | Admission Tips, Admission Trends & Admission Interviews: How To Know If a College Cares About Supporting an Unorganized Kid, Feb 20, 2025

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good YCBK episode from this week dealt with some of this:

“And I said, you know, what has really stood out to me this year is that the students who leave a real lasting impression and the ones who I am really motivated to advocate for are the ones who are really authentic.

They are just themselves, and they are a person who no one else could be.”

“It was who she is as a person and that she's just engaged in a really interesting mix of things, and she reflects on those things that she's doing in an interesting way and in a way that nobody else could do exactly the same things that she's doing or speak about them in exactly the same way that she's speaking about the”

“Because when students just lean into who they are, that really stands out in the application. And we want to get to know students who are all going to bring something different and something interesting.”

“Even more than impressive test scores or great transcripts or fantastic essays, colleges are looking for authenticity. Not the appearance of authenticity, not the packaging of authenticity, not the strategy of authenticity, just authenticity. Plain and simple.

“So you've mentioned the word reflective several times. How much of this is coming through in the personal statement or in the writing portions of the application? Is that where you feel you see it the most?

I'm sure it's consistent with everything, though. It's a consistent pattern throughout the application. But is that where you're most likely to have it grab you?

Yeah, for sure. Like, there are so many times when we will write in the comments on an essay that this was all narrative, no reflection, right? They told a story, but they didn't tell us what the story meant to them.”

From Your College Bound Kid | Admission Tips, Admission Trends & Admission Interviews: How To Know If a College Cares About Supporting an Unorganized Kid, Feb 20, 2025

Even more than impressive test scores or great transcripts or fantastic essays, colleges are looking for authenticity. Not the appearance of authenticity, not the packaging of authenticity, not the strategy of authenticity, just authenticity. Plain and simple.

Of course! They can totally figure out who is authentic in less than 10 minutes that they spend reading essays God knows which consultant has edited however many times!

If they are really able to do that, they should be getting paid millions of dollars advising companies for this kind of skill.

[Anonymous]

bumping this up for others on the thread re: college consulting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a lot more to algorithms and scoring (fake standardization) of subjective items like essays and ECs, along with factors affecting yield that may weigh more heavily in the algorithm, than about being "compelling." And yes, I would assume that institutional priorities would be very heavy factors in said algorithm.

I think being "compelling" goes only to the subjectively scored factors and makes AOs feel like they're doing a good job, but the algorithm is the actual decider. Somewhere on that Slate application view, there will be numerical scores.

I just spent 30 min down the reddit rabbit hole and read that former AO's (Aggravating_Humor) year old post on "Essays and how they're read at top schools" and the original link above:

Some good intel there:
- the tone/feel/sophistication of the personal essay should MATCH the rest of the application (sometimes when people get help with the personal essay but not all the supplements, or even the activities, the mismatch in quality shows, and if you are not FGLI or under-resourced, it will be held against you).
Sometimes, strong, cohesive candidates are fully supported by the regional AO and initial readers with clearly strong ratings and later rejected by the senior AO or director or dean because they've already filled all of the slots for that profile in the class (this often happens in RD for oversubscribed majors), assuming the applicant fills no other buckets (institutional priorities).
- Cohesive applications are very important, especially if coming from a well-resourced (educated and income) family and high school
- Shotgunning can work if the apps are well planned out and tailored
- If you are in a pool of applicants from the same school, your LOR is compared to the others that teacher wrote that year (what was student's personality in class, how a student is intellectually) a
- A Why US essay is always trying to determine "fit"
- if they haven't taken students from a school in a "long time" or ever, they will at MOST accept maybe 1 student that year. Never more.

Helpful. Where's this post?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good YCBK episode from this week dealt with some of this:

“And I said, you know, what has really stood out to me this year is that the students who leave a real lasting impression and the ones who I am really motivated to advocate for are the ones who are really authentic.

They are just themselves, and they are a person who no one else could be.”

“It was who she is as a person and that she's just engaged in a really interesting mix of things, and she reflects on those things that she's doing in an interesting way and in a way that nobody else could do exactly the same things that she's doing or speak about them in exactly the same way that she's speaking about the”

“Because when students just lean into who they are, that really stands out in the application. And we want to get to know students who are all going to bring something different and something interesting.”

“Even more than impressive test scores or great transcripts or fantastic essays, colleges are looking for authenticity. Not the appearance of authenticity, not the packaging of authenticity, not the strategy of authenticity, just authenticity. Plain and simple.

“So you've mentioned the word reflective several times. How much of this is coming through in the personal statement or in the writing portions of the application? Is that where you feel you see it the most?

I'm sure it's consistent with everything, though. It's a consistent pattern throughout the application. But is that where you're most likely to have it grab you?

Yeah, for sure. Like, there are so many times when we will write in the comments on an essay that this was all narrative, no reflection, right? They told a story, but they didn't tell us what the story meant to them.”

From Your College Bound Kid | Admission Tips, Admission Trends & Admission Interviews: How To Know If a College Cares About Supporting an Unorganized Kid, Feb 20, 2025

Even more than impressive test scores or great transcripts or fantastic essays, colleges are looking for authenticity. Not the appearance of authenticity, not the packaging of authenticity, not the strategy of authenticity, just authenticity. Plain and simple.

Of course! They can totally figure out who is authentic in less than 10 minutes that they spend reading essays God knows which consultant has edited however many times!

If they are really able to do that, they should be getting paid millions of dollars advising companies for this kind of skill.

One day we learnt that private counselors’ tailored essay guide helped kids get into T10.

On the second day, we have to unlearn that. Now kids writing “authentic” essays will stand out.