Ranking my PK4 list

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should rank them in your order of preference. If middle school matters, probably Lafayette and Shepherd first. But if you plan to move anyway or commutes matter a ton, that could be different.

Would you consider trekking south? I have friends whose kids go to Dorothy Height and Barnard and have been happy there.

+1. True preference always. But if you wanted a middle/high school pathway, your true preference could be different than if you're just looking for a strong, convenient elementary school. The problem with Whittier, Lewis, and Takoma is that other families WILL start leaving in middle elementary for a different feeder pattern. Not everyone and not all in the same year, but you just can't know ahead of time if it will be your DC's primary friend cohort and how much it will bother your DC.

As someone in the same general neighborhood and a few years ahead of you, here's what I'd recommend. Decide both: (1) if you want to prioritize staying in your current house and if that means securing an OOB/charter feeder pathway; (2) and also if you feel confident in your current charter through third grade or so. If both are a yes, then I wouldn't move your DC from your decent charter until you get an offer that gives you a long term pathway. If you want to stay in your current house, but don't feel confident in your charter for another 5 years, then I'd rank true preference, accounting for feeder patter, and see where you get in. If another school can give you a solid, stable 5+ years, it's not ideal, but not the end of the world to move DC in middle elementary. They may moan and groan, but it is so common in DC that it's not the end of the world. Also consider whether you would be interested in DCI for middle and high school. Many, many families in the area choose DC because of academic standards and proximity, not language. If you'd consider DCI, then I'd lottery for any of those feeders you want, plus Powell and Bruce Monroe (which are easy to get into at K and build language skills until you can lottery into a DCI feeder in upper elementary).

This is an underrated post. Even if you OP want to stay at a school your kids friends may begin to leave for schools with different feeders. Or move out of DC in general..

This is true at all schools unless you live WOTP and go to your IB school, and even then kids start to splinter to charters, Walls, private, the suburbs. DC is probably not a place where your kid is going to matriculate with their 20 best friends for their entire school lives.

But OP is already planning on her DH's charter for middle school, so that's not an issue for her. The question is whether her kid will be the last one from the K/1st grade friend group left by 4th grade. Even in WOTP schools it's rare to finish elementary school with all 20 best friends, but socially it's different whether there are a critical core left vs. having to make new friends for the last year or two of elementary. And to put a finer point on it, it's year to year at any EOTP schools. Within the same school and same family, one kid may keep their friend group through elementary and another may be feel left behind and lonely in fourth or fifth. I've seen all of these scenarios play out at all of the EOTP schools in the OP.

I actually have a question about this because the EOTP people we know who go to WOTP early elementary seem to struggle a bit more to find footing. How easy is it to build a community WOTP if you live EOTP? I'm genuinely curious about this from people with experience. Are you constantly shuttling WOTP. Do you tend to see neighborhood kids on weekends?

I think it depends on the particular WOTP school, the kid, and the family. Some schools are much more neighborhood schools than others. And if you have a social butterfly who arranges their own play dates and joins every after school club, then they'll probably find their footing easily, but yes the parents will be shuttling WOTP on weekends and holidays.

This isn't a judgement, it's really not, parents want to do best by their kids and make choices that will do that but that seems like so much for what? Obviously JR is the highest ranked neighborhood HS but what are the activities, offerings, etc... that make it so much better? Is it purely reputation? I know test scores get thrown out a lot but there are kids with remarkably different circumstances at these schools regardless of teachers.

Sorry to hijack this thread I'm just curious what makes people so anxious about non-JR HSs that they drive around all weekend while living in the city.

You’re really asking if parents think it’s worth a couple car trips for weekend play dates if that’s part of the deal for a completely different education? Your normal weekend must be full of magic if you don’t want to pull your kids away from that a few times to see their friends.

I specifically asked what made it worth it because our current EOTP IB school has been very academically rigorous with the added bonus of a strong community. So the idea of losing that community for education makes me curious what exactly the educational difference is.

I appreciate the specific programming and offerings, and it makes sense, but those offerings exist in part because people are willing to drive around the city to get them rather than demand them in their own backyards. I want to know what to try and demand in my own backyard.

I think that’s laudable and I truly wish you well in that effort. But if you have early elementary kids, you may find the community starting to weaken in a few years and realize you’re driving all around the city for extracurriculars anyways. My kid’s school has 15 afterschool options for just their grade. Languages, academic supplementation, athletics, arts and drama, and special interests. All paid and none cheap - which makes that range of offerings impossible for a school that doesn’t have the entire student body able to afford hundreds of dollars extra a month for Chinese and Pokémon club.

And specials classes and teachers that are paid for by the PTA, not DCPS. And extra classroom teachers paid for by the PTA. It varies school to school, but even if the core subjects are comparable (because Title 1 schools attract the best, most passionate teachers!), what you get in Ward 3 are strong non-core academics on top of what you get at other schools. Our Title 1 was a true “gem” (ahem ahem) that gets praise on DCUM, but it was focused in a way that I didn’t realize until I could compare the alternative. It’s a tough pill to swallow, but the truth is that DCPS is incredibly inequitable in a way that suburban districts are not allowed to be, and there’s really nothing individual schools can do to change that structural inequality.

Our EOTP IB has at least this many afterschool offerings (and I'd actually guess more for older grades). The PTO cannot pay for as much as they can at some WOTP schools, but we still have 6 specials, subsidized tutoring, fully equipped classrooms (i.e., PTO can meet teacher need for supplies/furniture), etc. I am sure your WOTP school is even fancier, but I think you are really painting with too broad a brush if you don't think schools EOTP have a lot of these things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should rank them in your order of preference. If middle school matters, probably Lafayette and Shepherd first. But if you plan to move anyway or commutes matter a ton, that could be different.

Would you consider trekking south? I have friends whose kids go to Dorothy Height and Barnard and have been happy there.

+1. True preference always. But if you wanted a middle/high school pathway, your true preference could be different than if you're just looking for a strong, convenient elementary school. The problem with Whittier, Lewis, and Takoma is that other families WILL start leaving in middle elementary for a different feeder pattern. Not everyone and not all in the same year, but you just can't know ahead of time if it will be your DC's primary friend cohort and how much it will bother your DC.

As someone in the same general neighborhood and a few years ahead of you, here's what I'd recommend. Decide both: (1) if you want to prioritize staying in your current house and if that means securing an OOB/charter feeder pathway; (2) and also if you feel confident in your current charter through third grade or so. If both are a yes, then I wouldn't move your DC from your decent charter until you get an offer that gives you a long term pathway. If you want to stay in your current house, but don't feel confident in your charter for another 5 years, then I'd rank true preference, accounting for feeder patter, and see where you get in. If another school can give you a solid, stable 5+ years, it's not ideal, but not the end of the world to move DC in middle elementary. They may moan and groan, but it is so common in DC that it's not the end of the world. Also consider whether you would be interested in DCI for middle and high school. Many, many families in the area choose DC because of academic standards and proximity, not language. If you'd consider DCI, then I'd lottery for any of those feeders you want, plus Powell and Bruce Monroe (which are easy to get into at K and build language skills until you can lottery into a DCI feeder in upper elementary).

This is an underrated post. Even if you OP want to stay at a school your kids friends may begin to leave for schools with different feeders. Or move out of DC in general..

This is true at all schools unless you live WOTP and go to your IB school, and even then kids start to splinter to charters, Walls, private, the suburbs. DC is probably not a place where your kid is going to matriculate with their 20 best friends for their entire school lives.

But OP is already planning on her DH's charter for middle school, so that's not an issue for her. The question is whether her kid will be the last one from the K/1st grade friend group left by 4th grade. Even in WOTP schools it's rare to finish elementary school with all 20 best friends, but socially it's different whether there are a critical core left vs. having to make new friends for the last year or two of elementary. And to put a finer point on it, it's year to year at any EOTP schools. Within the same school and same family, one kid may keep their friend group through elementary and another may be feel left behind and lonely in fourth or fifth. I've seen all of these scenarios play out at all of the EOTP schools in the OP.

I actually have a question about this because the EOTP people we know who go to WOTP early elementary seem to struggle a bit more to find footing. How easy is it to build a community WOTP if you live EOTP? I'm genuinely curious about this from people with experience. Are you constantly shuttling WOTP. Do you tend to see neighborhood kids on weekends?

I think it depends on the particular WOTP school, the kid, and the family. Some schools are much more neighborhood schools than others. And if you have a social butterfly who arranges their own play dates and joins every after school club, then they'll probably find their footing easily, but yes the parents will be shuttling WOTP on weekends and holidays.

This isn't a judgement, it's really not, parents want to do best by their kids and make choices that will do that but that seems like so much for what? Obviously JR is the highest ranked neighborhood HS but what are the activities, offerings, etc... that make it so much better? Is it purely reputation? I know test scores get thrown out a lot but there are kids with remarkably different circumstances at these schools regardless of teachers.

Sorry to hijack this thread I'm just curious what makes people so anxious about non-JR HSs that they drive around all weekend while living in the city.

You’re really asking if parents think it’s worth a couple car trips for weekend play dates if that’s part of the deal for a completely different education? Your normal weekend must be full of magic if you don’t want to pull your kids away from that a few times to see their friends.

I specifically asked what made it worth it because our current EOTP IB school has been very academically rigorous with the added bonus of a strong community. So the idea of losing that community for education makes me curious what exactly the educational difference is.

I appreciate the specific programming and offerings, and it makes sense, but those offerings exist in part because people are willing to drive around the city to get them rather than demand them in their own backyards. I want to know what to try and demand in my own backyard.

I think that’s laudable and I truly wish you well in that effort. But if you have early elementary kids, you may find the community starting to weaken in a few years and realize you’re driving all around the city for extracurriculars anyways. My kid’s school has 15 afterschool options for just their grade. Languages, academic supplementation, athletics, arts and drama, and special interests. All paid and none cheap - which makes that range of offerings impossible for a school that doesn’t have the entire student body able to afford hundreds of dollars extra a month for Chinese and Pokémon club.

And specials classes and teachers that are paid for by the PTA, not DCPS. And extra classroom teachers paid for by the PTA. It varies school to school, but even if the core subjects are comparable (because Title 1 schools attract the best, most passionate teachers!), what you get in Ward 3 are strong non-core academics on top of what you get at other schools. Our Title 1 was a true “gem” (ahem ahem) that gets praise on DCUM, but it was focused in a way that I didn’t realize until I could compare the alternative. It’s a tough pill to swallow, but the truth is that DCPS is incredibly inequitable in a way that suburban districts are not allowed to be, and there’s really nothing individual schools can do to change that structural inequality.

Our EOTP IB has at least this many afterschool offerings (and I'd actually guess more for older grades). The PTO cannot pay for as much as they can at some WOTP schools, but we still have 6 specials, subsidized tutoring, fully equipped classrooms (i.e., PTO can meet teacher need for supplies/furniture), etc. I am sure your WOTP school is even fancier, but I think you are really painting with too broad a brush if you don't think schools EOTP have a lot of these things.

What EOTP schools has anything close to 15 offerings per grade after school? Even the wealthiest ones I know of have aftercare with a handful of specials and maybe a few sports (mostly DCIIA, but maybe also private soccer instruction).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should rank them in your order of preference. If middle school matters, probably Lafayette and Shepherd first. But if you plan to move anyway or commutes matter a ton, that could be different.

Would you consider trekking south? I have friends whose kids go to Dorothy Height and Barnard and have been happy there.

+1. True preference always. But if you wanted a middle/high school pathway, your true preference could be different than if you're just looking for a strong, convenient elementary school. The problem with Whittier, Lewis, and Takoma is that other families WILL start leaving in middle elementary for a different feeder pattern. Not everyone and not all in the same year, but you just can't know ahead of time if it will be your DC's primary friend cohort and how much it will bother your DC.

As someone in the same general neighborhood and a few years ahead of you, here's what I'd recommend. Decide both: (1) if you want to prioritize staying in your current house and if that means securing an OOB/charter feeder pathway; (2) and also if you feel confident in your current charter through third grade or so. If both are a yes, then I wouldn't move your DC from your decent charter until you get an offer that gives you a long term pathway. If you want to stay in your current house, but don't feel confident in your charter for another 5 years, then I'd rank true preference, accounting for feeder patter, and see where you get in. If another school can give you a solid, stable 5+ years, it's not ideal, but not the end of the world to move DC in middle elementary. They may moan and groan, but it is so common in DC that it's not the end of the world. Also consider whether you would be interested in DCI for middle and high school. Many, many families in the area choose DC because of academic standards and proximity, not language. If you'd consider DCI, then I'd lottery for any of those feeders you want, plus Powell and Bruce Monroe (which are easy to get into at K and build language skills until you can lottery into a DCI feeder in upper elementary).

This is an underrated post. Even if you OP want to stay at a school your kids friends may begin to leave for schools with different feeders. Or move out of DC in general..

This is true at all schools unless you live WOTP and go to your IB school, and even then kids start to splinter to charters, Walls, private, the suburbs. DC is probably not a place where your kid is going to matriculate with their 20 best friends for their entire school lives.

But OP is already planning on her DH's charter for middle school, so that's not an issue for her. The question is whether her kid will be the last one from the K/1st grade friend group left by 4th grade. Even in WOTP schools it's rare to finish elementary school with all 20 best friends, but socially it's different whether there are a critical core left vs. having to make new friends for the last year or two of elementary. And to put a finer point on it, it's year to year at any EOTP schools. Within the same school and same family, one kid may keep their friend group through elementary and another may be feel left behind and lonely in fourth or fifth. I've seen all of these scenarios play out at all of the EOTP schools in the OP.

I actually have a question about this because the EOTP people we know who go to WOTP early elementary seem to struggle a bit more to find footing. How easy is it to build a community WOTP if you live EOTP? I'm genuinely curious about this from people with experience. Are you constantly shuttling WOTP. Do you tend to see neighborhood kids on weekends?

I think it depends on the particular WOTP school, the kid, and the family. Some schools are much more neighborhood schools than others. And if you have a social butterfly who arranges their own play dates and joins every after school club, then they'll probably find their footing easily, but yes the parents will be shuttling WOTP on weekends and holidays.

This isn't a judgement, it's really not, parents want to do best by their kids and make choices that will do that but that seems like so much for what? Obviously JR is the highest ranked neighborhood HS but what are the activities, offerings, etc... that make it so much better? Is it purely reputation? I know test scores get thrown out a lot but there are kids with remarkably different circumstances at these schools regardless of teachers.

Sorry to hijack this thread I'm just curious what makes people so anxious about non-JR HSs that they drive around all weekend while living in the city.

You’re really asking if parents think it’s worth a couple car trips for weekend play dates if that’s part of the deal for a completely different education? Your normal weekend must be full of magic if you don’t want to pull your kids away from that a few times to see their friends.

I specifically asked what made it worth it because our current EOTP IB school has been very academically rigorous with the added bonus of a strong community. So the idea of losing that community for education makes me curious what exactly the educational difference is.

I appreciate the specific programming and offerings, and it makes sense, but those offerings exist in part because people are willing to drive around the city to get them rather than demand them in their own backyards. I want to know what to try and demand in my own backyard.

I think that’s laudable and I truly wish you well in that effort. But if you have early elementary kids, you may find the community starting to weaken in a few years and realize you’re driving all around the city for extracurriculars anyways. My kid’s school has 15 afterschool options for just their grade. Languages, academic supplementation, athletics, arts and drama, and special interests. All paid and none cheap - which makes that range of offerings impossible for a school that doesn’t have the entire student body able to afford hundreds of dollars extra a month for Chinese and Pokémon club.

And specials classes and teachers that are paid for by the PTA, not DCPS. And extra classroom teachers paid for by the PTA. It varies school to school, but even if the core subjects are comparable (because Title 1 schools attract the best, most passionate teachers!), what you get in Ward 3 are strong non-core academics on top of what you get at other schools. Our Title 1 was a true “gem” (ahem ahem) that gets praise on DCUM, but it was focused in a way that I didn’t realize until I could compare the alternative. It’s a tough pill to swallow, but the truth is that DCPS is incredibly inequitable in a way that suburban districts are not allowed to be, and there’s really nothing individual schools can do to change that structural inequality.

Our EOTP IB has at least this many afterschool offerings (and I'd actually guess more for older grades). The PTO cannot pay for as much as they can at some WOTP schools, but we still have 6 specials, subsidized tutoring, fully equipped classrooms (i.e., PTO can meet teacher need for supplies/furniture), etc. I am sure your WOTP school is even fancier, but I think you are really painting with too broad a brush if you don't think schools EOTP have a lot of these things.

What EOTP schools has anything close to 15 offerings per grade after school? Even the wealthiest ones I know of have aftercare with a handful of specials and maybe a few sports (mostly DCIIA, but maybe also private soccer instruction).

Our EOTP has a few after school club options per grade, but access is limited because there aren't enough seats for each kid to do multiple clubs. Ours also doesn't charge for clubs (for equity reasons), so that limits how many activities can be offered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should rank them in your order of preference. If middle school matters, probably Lafayette and Shepherd first. But if you plan to move anyway or commutes matter a ton, that could be different.

Would you consider trekking south? I have friends whose kids go to Dorothy Height and Barnard and have been happy there.

+1. True preference always. But if you wanted a middle/high school pathway, your true preference could be different than if you're just looking for a strong, convenient elementary school. The problem with Whittier, Lewis, and Takoma is that other families WILL start leaving in middle elementary for a different feeder pattern. Not everyone and not all in the same year, but you just can't know ahead of time if it will be your DC's primary friend cohort and how much it will bother your DC.

As someone in the same general neighborhood and a few years ahead of you, here's what I'd recommend. Decide both: (1) if you want to prioritize staying in your current house and if that means securing an OOB/charter feeder pathway; (2) and also if you feel confident in your current charter through third grade or so. If both are a yes, then I wouldn't move your DC from your decent charter until you get an offer that gives you a long term pathway. If you want to stay in your current house, but don't feel confident in your charter for another 5 years, then I'd rank true preference, accounting for feeder patter, and see where you get in. If another school can give you a solid, stable 5+ years, it's not ideal, but not the end of the world to move DC in middle elementary. They may moan and groan, but it is so common in DC that it's not the end of the world. Also consider whether you would be interested in DCI for middle and high school. Many, many families in the area choose DC because of academic standards and proximity, not language. If you'd consider DCI, then I'd lottery for any of those feeders you want, plus Powell and Bruce Monroe (which are easy to get into at K and build language skills until you can lottery into a DCI feeder in upper elementary).

This is an underrated post. Even if you OP want to stay at a school your kids friends may begin to leave for schools with different feeders. Or move out of DC in general..

This is true at all schools unless you live WOTP and go to your IB school, and even then kids start to splinter to charters, Walls, private, the suburbs. DC is probably not a place where your kid is going to matriculate with their 20 best friends for their entire school lives.

But OP is already planning on her DH's charter for middle school, so that's not an issue for her. The question is whether her kid will be the last one from the K/1st grade friend group left by 4th grade. Even in WOTP schools it's rare to finish elementary school with all 20 best friends, but socially it's different whether there are a critical core left vs. having to make new friends for the last year or two of elementary. And to put a finer point on it, it's year to year at any EOTP schools. Within the same school and same family, one kid may keep their friend group through elementary and another may be feel left behind and lonely in fourth or fifth. I've seen all of these scenarios play out at all of the EOTP schools in the OP.

I actually have a question about this because the EOTP people we know who go to WOTP early elementary seem to struggle a bit more to find footing. How easy is it to build a community WOTP if you live EOTP? I'm genuinely curious about this from people with experience. Are you constantly shuttling WOTP. Do you tend to see neighborhood kids on weekends?

I think it depends on the particular WOTP school, the kid, and the family. Some schools are much more neighborhood schools than others. And if you have a social butterfly who arranges their own play dates and joins every after school club, then they'll probably find their footing easily, but yes the parents will be shuttling WOTP on weekends and holidays.

This isn't a judgement, it's really not, parents want to do best by their kids and make choices that will do that but that seems like so much for what? Obviously JR is the highest ranked neighborhood HS but what are the activities, offerings, etc... that make it so much better? Is it purely reputation? I know test scores get thrown out a lot but there are kids with remarkably different circumstances at these schools regardless of teachers.

Sorry to hijack this thread I'm just curious what makes people so anxious about non-JR HSs that they drive around all weekend while living in the city.

You’re really asking if parents think it’s worth a couple car trips for weekend play dates if that’s part of the deal for a completely different education? Your normal weekend must be full of magic if you don’t want to pull your kids away from that a few times to see their friends.

I specifically asked what made it worth it because our current EOTP IB school has been very academically rigorous with the added bonus of a strong community. So the idea of losing that community for education makes me curious what exactly the educational difference is.

I appreciate the specific programming and offerings, and it makes sense, but those offerings exist in part because people are willing to drive around the city to get them rather than demand them in their own backyards. I want to know what to try and demand in my own backyard.

I think that’s laudable and I truly wish you well in that effort. But if you have early elementary kids, you may find the community starting to weaken in a few years and realize you’re driving all around the city for extracurriculars anyways. My kid’s school has 15 afterschool options for just their grade. Languages, academic supplementation, athletics, arts and drama, and special interests. All paid and none cheap - which makes that range of offerings impossible for a school that doesn’t have the entire student body able to afford hundreds of dollars extra a month for Chinese and Pokémon club.

And specials classes and teachers that are paid for by the PTA, not DCPS. And extra classroom teachers paid for by the PTA. It varies school to school, but even if the core subjects are comparable (because Title 1 schools attract the best, most passionate teachers!), what you get in Ward 3 are strong non-core academics on top of what you get at other schools. Our Title 1 was a true “gem” (ahem ahem) that gets praise on DCUM, but it was focused in a way that I didn’t realize until I could compare the alternative. It’s a tough pill to swallow, but the truth is that DCPS is incredibly inequitable in a way that suburban districts are not allowed to be, and there’s really nothing individual schools can do to change that structural inequality.

Our EOTP IB has at least this many afterschool offerings (and I'd actually guess more for older grades). The PTO cannot pay for as much as they can at some WOTP schools, but we still have 6 specials, subsidized tutoring, fully equipped classrooms (i.e., PTO can meet teacher need for supplies/furniture), etc. I am sure your WOTP school is even fancier, but I think you are really painting with too broad a brush if you don't think schools EOTP have a lot of these things.

What EOTP schools has anything close to 15 offerings per grade after school? Even the wealthiest ones I know of have aftercare with a handful of specials and maybe a few sports (mostly DCIIA, but maybe also private soccer instruction).

Ludlow-Taylor does. Kids have about 20 club options for Kindergarten and up (and 10-12 for ECE) through our enrichment provider, The Future Stars. They're also at Van Ness and CHML now, so I assume they also have lots of options (though probably not as many yet, since they're L-T based and newer in those schools). Then there's also tutoring/enrichment in reading and math available, plus DCPS/DCIIA sports for 4th & 5th graders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should rank them in your order of preference. If middle school matters, probably Lafayette and Shepherd first. But if you plan to move anyway or commutes matter a ton, that could be different.

Would you consider trekking south? I have friends whose kids go to Dorothy Height and Barnard and have been happy there.

+1. True preference always. But if you wanted a middle/high school pathway, your true preference could be different than if you're just looking for a strong, convenient elementary school. The problem with Whittier, Lewis, and Takoma is that other families WILL start leaving in middle elementary for a different feeder pattern. Not everyone and not all in the same year, but you just can't know ahead of time if it will be your DC's primary friend cohort and how much it will bother your DC.

As someone in the same general neighborhood and a few years ahead of you, here's what I'd recommend. Decide both: (1) if you want to prioritize staying in your current house and if that means securing an OOB/charter feeder pathway; (2) and also if you feel confident in your current charter through third grade or so. If both are a yes, then I wouldn't move your DC from your decent charter until you get an offer that gives you a long term pathway. If you want to stay in your current house, but don't feel confident in your charter for another 5 years, then I'd rank true preference, accounting for feeder patter, and see where you get in. If another school can give you a solid, stable 5+ years, it's not ideal, but not the end of the world to move DC in middle elementary. They may moan and groan, but it is so common in DC that it's not the end of the world. Also consider whether you would be interested in DCI for middle and high school. Many, many families in the area choose DC because of academic standards and proximity, not language. If you'd consider DCI, then I'd lottery for any of those feeders you want, plus Powell and Bruce Monroe (which are easy to get into at K and build language skills until you can lottery into a DCI feeder in upper elementary).

This is an underrated post. Even if you OP want to stay at a school your kids friends may begin to leave for schools with different feeders. Or move out of DC in general..

This is true at all schools unless you live WOTP and go to your IB school, and even then kids start to splinter to charters, Walls, private, the suburbs. DC is probably not a place where your kid is going to matriculate with their 20 best friends for their entire school lives.

But OP is already planning on her DH's charter for middle school, so that's not an issue for her. The question is whether her kid will be the last one from the K/1st grade friend group left by 4th grade. Even in WOTP schools it's rare to finish elementary school with all 20 best friends, but socially it's different whether there are a critical core left vs. having to make new friends for the last year or two of elementary. And to put a finer point on it, it's year to year at any EOTP schools. Within the same school and same family, one kid may keep their friend group through elementary and another may be feel left behind and lonely in fourth or fifth. I've seen all of these scenarios play out at all of the EOTP schools in the OP.

I actually have a question about this because the EOTP people we know who go to WOTP early elementary seem to struggle a bit more to find footing. How easy is it to build a community WOTP if you live EOTP? I'm genuinely curious about this from people with experience. Are you constantly shuttling WOTP. Do you tend to see neighborhood kids on weekends?

I think it depends on the particular WOTP school, the kid, and the family. Some schools are much more neighborhood schools than others. And if you have a social butterfly who arranges their own play dates and joins every after school club, then they'll probably find their footing easily, but yes the parents will be shuttling WOTP on weekends and holidays.

This isn't a judgement, it's really not, parents want to do best by their kids and make choices that will do that but that seems like so much for what? Obviously JR is the highest ranked neighborhood HS but what are the activities, offerings, etc... that make it so much better? Is it purely reputation? I know test scores get thrown out a lot but there are kids with remarkably different circumstances at these schools regardless of teachers.

Sorry to hijack this thread I'm just curious what makes people so anxious about non-JR HSs that they drive around all weekend while living in the city.

You’re really asking if parents think it’s worth a couple car trips for weekend play dates if that’s part of the deal for a completely different education? Your normal weekend must be full of magic if you don’t want to pull your kids away from that a few times to see their friends.

I specifically asked what made it worth it because our current EOTP IB school has been very academically rigorous with the added bonus of a strong community. So the idea of losing that community for education makes me curious what exactly the educational difference is.

I appreciate the specific programming and offerings, and it makes sense, but those offerings exist in part because people are willing to drive around the city to get them rather than demand them in their own backyards. I want to know what to try and demand in my own backyard.

I think that’s laudable and I truly wish you well in that effort. But if you have early elementary kids, you may find the community starting to weaken in a few years and realize you’re driving all around the city for extracurriculars anyways. My kid’s school has 15 afterschool options for just their grade. Languages, academic supplementation, athletics, arts and drama, and special interests. All paid and none cheap - which makes that range of offerings impossible for a school that doesn’t have the entire student body able to afford hundreds of dollars extra a month for Chinese and Pokémon club.

And specials classes and teachers that are paid for by the PTA, not DCPS. And extra classroom teachers paid for by the PTA. It varies school to school, but even if the core subjects are comparable (because Title 1 schools attract the best, most passionate teachers!), what you get in Ward 3 are strong non-core academics on top of what you get at other schools. Our Title 1 was a true “gem” (ahem ahem) that gets praise on DCUM, but it was focused in a way that I didn’t realize until I could compare the alternative. It’s a tough pill to swallow, but the truth is that DCPS is incredibly inequitable in a way that suburban districts are not allowed to be, and there’s really nothing individual schools can do to change that structural inequality.

Our EOTP IB has at least this many afterschool offerings (and I'd actually guess more for older grades). The PTO cannot pay for as much as they can at some WOTP schools, but we still have 6 specials, subsidized tutoring, fully equipped classrooms (i.e., PTO can meet teacher need for supplies/furniture), etc. I am sure your WOTP school is even fancier, but I think you are really painting with too broad a brush if you don't think schools EOTP have a lot of these things.

What EOTP schools has anything close to 15 offerings per grade after school? Even the wealthiest ones I know of have aftercare with a handful of specials and maybe a few sports (mostly DCIIA, but maybe also private soccer instruction).

Ludlow-Taylor does. Kids have about 20 club options for Kindergarten and up (and 10-12 for ECE) through our enrichment provider, The Future Stars. They're also at Van Ness and CHML now, so I assume they also have lots of options (though probably not as many yet, since they're L-T based and newer in those schools). Then there's also tutoring/enrichment in reading and math available, plus DCPS/DCIIA sports for 4th & 5th graders.

That's fabulous! Is it an outside organization or school/PTA based? How much is the programming and what subsidies are there for low income students? Where does the funding for the subsidies come from?

[Anonymous]

I a finding it interesting that the main thing being discussed is differences in aftercare and not really differences in the actual school day for elementary.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You should rank them in your order of preference. If middle school matters, probably Lafayette and Shepherd first. But if you plan to move anyway or commutes matter a ton, that could be different.

Would you consider trekking south? I have friends whose kids go to Dorothy Height and Barnard and have been happy there.

+1. True preference always. But if you wanted a middle/high school pathway, your true preference could be different than if you're just looking for a strong, convenient elementary school. The problem with Whittier, Lewis, and Takoma is that other families WILL start leaving in middle elementary for a different feeder pattern. Not everyone and not all in the same year, but you just can't know ahead of time if it will be your DC's primary friend cohort and how much it will bother your DC.

As someone in the same general neighborhood and a few years ahead of you, here's what I'd recommend. Decide both: (1) if you want to prioritize staying in your current house and if that means securing an OOB/charter feeder pathway; (2) and also if you feel confident in your current charter through third grade or so. If both are a yes, then I wouldn't move your DC from your decent charter until you get an offer that gives you a long term pathway. If you want to stay in your current house, but don't feel confident in your charter for another 5 years, then I'd rank true preference, accounting for feeder patter, and see where you get in. If another school can give you a solid, stable 5+ years, it's not ideal, but not the end of the world to move DC in middle elementary. They may moan and groan, but it is so common in DC that it's not the end of the world. Also consider whether you would be interested in DCI for middle and high school. Many, many families in the area choose DC because of academic standards and proximity, not language. If you'd consider DCI, then I'd lottery for any of those feeders you want, plus Powell and Bruce Monroe (which are easy to get into at K and build language skills until you can lottery into a DCI feeder in upper elementary).

This is an underrated post. Even if you OP want to stay at a school your kids friends may begin to leave for schools with different feeders. Or move out of DC in general..

This is true at all schools unless you live WOTP and go to your IB school, and even then kids start to splinter to charters, Walls, private, the suburbs. DC is probably not a place where your kid is going to matriculate with their 20 best friends for their entire school lives.

But OP is already planning on her DH's charter for middle school, so that's not an issue for her. The question is whether her kid will be the last one from the K/1st grade friend group left by 4th grade. Even in WOTP schools it's rare to finish elementary school with all 20 best friends, but socially it's different whether there are a critical core left vs. having to make new friends for the last year or two of elementary. And to put a finer point on it, it's year to year at any EOTP schools. Within the same school and same family, one kid may keep their friend group through elementary and another may be feel left behind and lonely in fourth or fifth. I've seen all of these scenarios play out at all of the EOTP schools in the OP.

I actually have a question about this because the EOTP people we know who go to WOTP early elementary seem to struggle a bit more to find footing. How easy is it to build a community WOTP if you live EOTP? I'm genuinely curious about this from people with experience. Are you constantly shuttling WOTP. Do you tend to see neighborhood kids on weekends?

I think it depends on the particular WOTP school, the kid, and the family. Some schools are much more neighborhood schools than others. And if you have a social butterfly who arranges their own play dates and joins every after school club, then they'll probably find their footing easily, but yes the parents will be shuttling WOTP on weekends and holidays.

This isn't a judgement, it's really not, parents want to do best by their kids and make choices that will do that but that seems like so much for what? Obviously JR is the highest ranked neighborhood HS but what are the activities, offerings, etc... that make it so much better? Is it purely reputation? I know test scores get thrown out a lot but there are kids with remarkably different circumstances at these schools regardless of teachers.

Sorry to hijack this thread I'm just curious what makes people so anxious about non-JR HSs that they drive around all weekend while living in the city.

You’re really asking if parents think it’s worth a couple car trips for weekend play dates if that’s part of the deal for a completely different education? Your normal weekend must be full of magic if you don’t want to pull your kids away from that a few times to see their friends.

I specifically asked what made it worth it because our current EOTP IB school has been very academically rigorous with the added bonus of a strong community. So the idea of losing that community for education makes me curious what exactly the educational difference is.

I appreciate the specific programming and offerings, and it makes sense, but those offerings exist in part because people are willing to drive around the city to get them rather than demand them in their own backyards. I want to know what to try and demand in my own backyard.

I think that’s laudable and I truly wish you well in that effort. But if you have early elementary kids, you may find the community starting to weaken in a few years and realize you’re driving all around the city for extracurriculars anyways. My kid’s school has 15 afterschool options for just their grade. Languages, academic supplementation, athletics, arts and drama, and special interests. All paid and none cheap - which makes that range of offerings impossible for a school that doesn’t have the entire student body able to afford hundreds of dollars extra a month for Chinese and Pokémon club.

And specials classes and teachers that are paid for by the PTA, not DCPS. And extra classroom teachers paid for by the PTA. It varies school to school, but even if the core subjects are comparable (because Title 1 schools attract the best, most passionate teachers!), what you get in Ward 3 are strong non-core academics on top of what you get at other schools. Our Title 1 was a true “gem” (ahem ahem) that gets praise on DCUM, but it was focused in a way that I didn’t realize until I could compare the alternative. It’s a tough pill to swallow, but the truth is that DCPS is incredibly inequitable in a way that suburban districts are not allowed to be, and there’s really nothing individual schools can do to change that structural inequality.

Our EOTP IB has at least this many afterschool offerings (and I'd actually guess more for older grades). The PTO cannot pay for as much as they can at some WOTP schools, but we still have 6 specials, subsidized tutoring, fully equipped classrooms (i.e., PTO can meet teacher need for supplies/furniture), etc. I am sure your WOTP school is even fancier, but I think you are really painting with too broad a brush if you don't think schools EOTP have a lot of these things.

What EOTP schools has anything close to 15 offerings per grade after school? Even the wealthiest ones I know of have aftercare with a handful of specials and maybe a few sports (mostly DCIIA, but maybe also private soccer instruction).

Ludlow-Taylor does. Kids have about 20 club options for Kindergarten and up (and 10-12 for ECE) through our enrichment provider, The Future Stars. They're also at Van Ness and CHML now, so I assume they also have lots of options (though probably not as many yet, since they're L-T based and newer in those schools). Then there's also tutoring/enrichment in reading and math available, plus DCPS/DCIIA sports for 4th & 5th graders.

That's fabulous! Is it an outside organization or school/PTA based? How much is the programming and what subsidies are there for low income students? Where does the funding for the subsidies come from?

Future Stars is an independent provider, but it was founded by one of L-T's ECE teachers and has mostly L-T/ex-L-T teachers/aides/staff as admin/site managers. The clubs largely self-price -- the majority are run by L-T teachers/aides/staff, who set their own prices with TFS tacking on a premium to cover it's various expenses, though there are also a few DC standard outside providers. The clubs range from very cheap (the music teacher always charged a token fee for his offerings because he found it made kids commit) to reasonably expensive (the dance classes and Spring musical, which are also probably the two most popular offerings). Some of the clubs' costs are subsidized by the PTO because they benefit the school community, which keeps down the price of participation (for instance, the journalism club produces a professionally printed newspaper for the whole school 3x/year and the PTO pays for it). The Future Stars requires that each club offers 1-2 free slots for kids who can't otherwise afford them (so accounted for in pricing/basically subsidized by other kids in the club), many teachers routinely fill up extra spots with such kids if they don't reach their maximums and the PTO also offers some additional subsidies when they're requested. Also, I know the Capitol Hill Community Foundation has given the PTO grants for their reading and math programs so that they can be offered for free to any students who say cost is a barrier.

[Anonymous]

OP here--

Thank you all for the added insight on all things EOTP and WOTP. I mean it.

I know things are a little different for us since we have a 5-12 situation taken care of with my spouse's job (but, as I said earlier -if he wanted to quit or something else comes up, we want to have a decent fallback).

I ended up ranking it:

Shepherd
Lafayette
Takoma
Lewis
Whittier

Takoma is closest to our house based on the lines (even tho we are IB for Brightwood). We did a tour and loved it. EdFest they impressed us. They really have a great location and we do associate a lot with Takoma (even tho we live in Brightwood south of Walter Reed)

And all this to say- we would be happy with all five on that list! For different reasons.

Whittier is lowest due to the school building itself.

Lewis is "south" for us but I think it is important to add to the list for the new campus, referrals from friends how great it is, etc

Still time to add more if we want to take the conversation back in that direction.

I am not adding LAMB or DCB, etc.. nothing against those schools but our feeder is "secure"..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I a finding it interesting that the main thing being discussed is differences in aftercare and not really differences in the actual school day for elementary.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here--

Thank you all for the added insight on all things EOTP and WOTP. I mean it.

I know things are a little different for us since we have a 5-12 situation taken care of with my spouse's job (but, as I said earlier -if he wanted to quit or something else comes up, we want to have a decent fallback).

I ended up ranking it:

Shepherd
Lafayette
Takoma
Lewis
Whittier

Takoma is closest to our house based on the lines (even tho we are IB for Brightwood). We did a tour and loved it. EdFest they impressed us. They really have a great location and we do associate a lot with Takoma (even tho we live in Brightwood south of Walter Reed)

And all this to say- we would be happy with all five on that list! For different reasons.

Whittier is lowest due to the school building itself.

Lewis is "south" for us but I think it is important to add to the list for the new campus, referrals from friends how great it is, etc

Still time to add more if we want to take the conversation back in that direction.

I am not adding LAMB or DCB, etc.. nothing against those schools but our feeder is "secure"..

This feels like a solid ranking to me!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I a finding it interesting that the main thing being discussed is differences in aftercare and not really differences in the actual school day for elementary.

Yeah. Keep it focused on the classroom.

I'm a rare parent who has had kids in a Title 1 DCPS and a top-ranked DCPS school. The differences I've seen in the "better" school:

More social studies and science during the day
Much more writing instruction
Pull-outs like a book club for good readers
Higher standards in specials classes
More communication from teachers (weekly newsletter from classroom teachers and frequent photos shared, regular newsletters from specials teachers) compared to none from k-5 teachers at the other school
Less screentime during class (basically none except iReady, whereas the Title 1 school let them play on other apps and also played more videos and movies during the day).

The one point on the Title 1 side is that my kids got more challenging math -- math was more differentiated and their small groups were pushed far. The Title 1 also used to send kids up to higher graders if they needed more challenging work.

my kid always did get the highest possible scores on iReady and PARCC from the Title 1. So the school prepared them for ELA and Math.

No idea how to make this more equitable. I do think part of it is the school knowing that parents are watching very closely and will push if standards fall.
And a PTA funding curriculum enhancers and teacher development.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here--

Thank you all for the added insight on all things EOTP and WOTP. I mean it.

I know things are a little different for us since we have a 5-12 situation taken care of with my spouse's job (but, as I said earlier -if he wanted to quit or something else comes up, we want to have a decent fallback).

I ended up ranking it:

Shepherd
Lafayette
Takoma
Lewis
Whittier

Takoma is closest to our house based on the lines (even tho we are IB for Brightwood). We did a tour and loved it. EdFest they impressed us. They really have a great location and we do associate a lot with Takoma (even tho we live in Brightwood south of Walter Reed)

And all this to say- we would be happy with all five on that list! For different reasons.

Whittier is lowest due to the school building itself.

Lewis is "south" for us but I think it is important to add to the list for the new campus, referrals from friends how great it is, etc

Still time to add more if we want to take the conversation back in that direction.

I am not adding LAMB or DCB, etc.. nothing against those schools but our feeder is "secure"..

Seems like a great list! Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I a finding it interesting that the main thing being discussed is differences in aftercare and not really differences in the actual school day for elementary.

Yeah. Keep it focused on the classroom.

I'm a rare parent who has had kids in a Title 1 DCPS and a top-ranked DCPS school. The differences I've seen in the "better" school:

More social studies and science during the day
Much more writing instruction
Pull-outs like a book club for good readers
Higher standards in specials classes
More communication from teachers (weekly newsletter from classroom teachers and frequent photos shared, regular newsletters from specials teachers) compared to none from k-5 teachers at the other school
Less screentime during class (basically none except iReady, whereas the Title 1 school let them play on other apps and also played more videos and movies during the day).

The one point on the Title 1 side is that my kids got more challenging math -- math was more differentiated and their small groups were pushed far. The Title 1 also used to send kids up to higher graders if they needed more challenging work.

my kid always did get the highest possible scores on iReady and PARCC from the Title 1. So the school prepared them for ELA and Math.

No idea how to make this more equitable. I do think part of it is the school knowing that parents are watching very closely and will push if standards fall.
And a PTA funding curriculum enhancers and teacher development.

Interesting. Our Title 1 has advanced reading, very early writing intervention and work if appropriate for the kid, pictures, specials newsletters, science. It does have some screens which I don't love but it's not a free for all as far as I can tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I a finding it interesting that the main thing being discussed is differences in aftercare and not really differences in the actual school day for elementary.

Yeah. Keep it focused on the classroom.

I'm a rare parent who has had kids in a Title 1 DCPS and a top-ranked DCPS school. The differences I've seen in the "better" school:

More social studies and science during the day
Much more writing instruction
Pull-outs like a book club for good readers
Higher standards in specials classes
More communication from teachers (weekly newsletter from classroom teachers and frequent photos shared, regular newsletters from specials teachers) compared to none from k-5 teachers at the other school
Less screentime during class (basically none except iReady, whereas the Title 1 school let them play on other apps and also played more videos and movies during the day).

The one point on the Title 1 side is that my kids got more challenging math -- math was more differentiated and their small groups were pushed far. The Title 1 also used to send kids up to higher graders if they needed more challenging work.

my kid always did get the highest possible scores on iReady and PARCC from the Title 1. So the school prepared them for ELA and Math.

No idea how to make this more equitable. I do think part of it is the school knowing that parents are watching very closely and will push if standards fall.
And a PTA funding curriculum enhancers and teacher development.

Interesting. Our Title 1 has advanced reading, very early writing intervention and work if appropriate for the kid, pictures, specials newsletters, science. It does have some screens which I don't love but it's not a free for all as far as I can tell.

Our EOTP ES is departmentalized for 3rd-5th with a separate 1 hour/day writing class (on top of a 1 hour/day ELA class), so it's hard for me to imagine there's a lot more writing instruction at another school. It seems like this is much more school specific than T1 v "top" DCPS. I suspect the differences in "extras" are more consistent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here--

Thank you all for the added insight on all things EOTP and WOTP. I mean it.

I know things are a little different for us since we have a 5-12 situation taken care of with my spouse's job (but, as I said earlier -if he wanted to quit or something else comes up, we want to have a decent fallback).

I ended up ranking it:

Shepherd
Lafayette
Takoma
Lewis
Whittier

Takoma is closest to our house based on the lines (even tho we are IB for Brightwood). We did a tour and loved it. EdFest they impressed us. They really have a great location and we do associate a lot with Takoma (even tho we live in Brightwood south of Walter Reed)

And all this to say- we would be happy with all five on that list! For different reasons.

Whittier is lowest due to the school building itself.

Lewis is "south" for us but I think it is important to add to the list for the new campus, referrals from friends how great it is, etc

Still time to add more if we want to take the conversation back in that direction.

I am not adding LAMB or DCB, etc.. nothing against those schools but our feeder is "secure"..

This list seems solid but one thing to mention- I know a few families who have sent their kids to Whittier and Lewis- they all prefer Whittier.