Did your child want to leave AAP after being admitted? If so, did you let them?

[Anonymous]

AAP parent w/ DD in 5th grade now at a center school. -All the kids have been great, 3 years running, until my DD had a kid in her class this year who just didn’t seem to fit and has been slightly disruptive this year. (Also, fwiw, my kid doesn’t receive homework in her classroom.)

-He left our AAP center school and returned to his base school this past week. According to kids, he frequently complained, was disruptive and generally unhappy. So it seems he left not for academic reasons, but under the guise of being generally malcontent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bad decision. Your kid is going to lose out on a quality peer group forever. Even if they never see the people again, it shapes their development early on.

See this mom. The perfect example of a mom whose child doesn't belong in AAP but she refuses to let him/her out. Child is trapped and their life is hell for all of ES and MS. Poor child.

But do these kids really exist? (I mean, kids who are hating AAP and the environment but their hypercompetitive parent forces them to continue??)

Not AAP related but similar. I graded AP exams when I was in grad school, great money for an intense week of grading. There were a good number of exams that only had written in them “I am only here because my parents made me.” Many of those had some impolite comments about their parents following the statement. It was surprising to me how many students took AP classes and the exam because they had to.

While AAP is not AP, I am sure that there are kids in AAP who would rather be at their base school with friends in gen ed or in gen ed if their school has LLIV. I know that there are kids in Algebra 1 H in 7th grade because their parents made them. I know kids who were at RSM because their parents made them attend to make sure that they made it into Algebra 1 H in 7th grade. Plenty of parents force their kids into classes and programs that the kids don’t want to be in.

This is why I suspect that there are kids who intentionally bomb the TJ essays so that they have an out for not attending TJ. They don’t really want to go and their parents made them. By bombing the essay or writing “I don’t want to go” they get their way and can let their parents complain about their not being accepted.

Troll! repeating the same lies over and over.

The students struggling at TJ are those admitted with the lowest-level Algebra 1 math, especially considering that over a couple of hundred returned to base schools shortly after admission in last four years. The TJ students FCPS highlights in news releases are the ones who enter TJ with at least Geometry or Algebra 2 under their belt.

[Anonymous]

I think the answer varies depending on if your child is transferring to the center or if you're staying at your base school (which could be a center).

Our base is a center and the base kids are pretty normal laid back kids. I was super worried that the kids who transfer to the center might change the dynamics into something more pressure cooker. Honestly also I am not thrilled that some of these transfer kids are zoned to a different HS and live 20-25 minutes away depending on traffic. What a pain for playdates. So I went in thinking it might be a social disaster for my kid. What I didnt know is that they put most of the transfer kids together in the other classroom and my kid ended up in a classroom with just base AAP kids (level 4 and principal placed). This is like the ideal setup for my kid socially so they have been very happy all year long. Probably won't be as ideal next year though...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bad decision. Your kid is going to lose out on a quality peer group forever. Even if they never see the people again, it shapes their development early on.

See this mom. The perfect example of a mom whose child doesn't belong in AAP but she refuses to let him/her out. Child is trapped and their life is hell for all of ES and MS. Poor child.

But do these kids really exist? (I mean, kids who are hating AAP and the environment but their hypercompetitive parent forces them to continue??)

Not AAP related but similar. I graded AP exams when I was in grad school, great money for an intense week of grading. There were a good number of exams that only had written in them “I am only here because my parents made me.” Many of those had some impolite comments about their parents following the statement. It was surprising to me how many students took AP classes and the exam because they had to.

While AAP is not AP, I am sure that there are kids in AAP who would rather be at their base school with friends in gen ed or in gen ed if their school has LLIV. I know that there are kids in Algebra 1 H in 7th grade because their parents made them. I know kids who were at RSM because their parents made them attend to make sure that they made it into Algebra 1 H in 7th grade. Plenty of parents force their kids into classes and programs that the kids don’t want to be in.

This is why I suspect that there are kids who intentionally bomb the TJ essays so that they have an out for not attending TJ. They don’t really want to go and their parents made them. By bombing the essay or writing “I don’t want to go” they get their way and can let their parents complain about their not being accepted.

This is interesting, but why would they intentionally bomb the AP exams? Just to rebel against their controlling parents?

I don't know because the graders do not talk to the students. We see the blue books and grade the exam in front of us. Part of the training to grade is a list of all the reasons books might be empty or what type of non-essay writingins might be in the books. We have a specific grading rubric so we are required to read anything that is written, just in case a student changes their mind and actually answers the question at some point. I had essays about Prom, studetns sex lives (only a few of those), graduation, and fears about college. We have to look at every page of the book to make sure that the essay we are grading is not addressed some place else.

I would say about 25% of the exams I graded were flat out 0s with the students not answering. The more exciting ones were the ones where students tried to bribe the graders. You would occasionally find money taped in the booklets. We had to return the money.

Many of these exams are ones where the parents are not allowed to see the answers so it could be that it is an opportunity for the student to vent and stick it to their parent. We didn't see names, only a number assigned to the student, so I have no clue if there were more kids of a particular race or gender doing this. A smart kid who knows that their parent is not going to see a response and is not interested in whatever educational plans their parent has charted out for them can tank the essay on any number of standardized tests and know that they can blame the grading for their lack of success. If you don't think that this is happening with some kids applying to TJ then you are crazy. I am not saying it is the explanation for all of the high scoring, accelerated kids but I would put good money on it is the explination for some of them. Parents want the kid at TJ and the kid doesn't want to go, tank the essay, easy way out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, kids leave AAP, typically because the math is too hard. The moms typically say "Oh, he was principal placed and we decided the regular classroom was the better place for him after all"

This is the only reason I've ever heard anecdotally. A friend of my daughter's couldn't do the Level IV math. But rather than drop AAP, she just moved back to a regular math class but stayed in AAP for the remainder of her classes. This was at a school with local LIV services. Don't know that that would be possible at a center school. It just served to reinforce my opinion that the reading/writing is what flags more people for AAP than advanced math abilities. Most of the work samples the school submits are language arts based. Kids who read well early are often flagged as "so smart!" But no one notices the nuances of a kid who can think through a math problem in a different way or understand fractions at a different level than the others. This is why the math tends to be the problem for some kids once they get in to Level IV while kids who are strong in math get overlooked unless you have a good elementary school that doesn't use AAP designation only to decide who gets advanced math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fun anecdote:

My DH begged to be realized from the then-newer FCPS GT program because he didn’t like being separated from his friends (this was when the program was pull out and after school) but most importantly, he told his parents that he just wanted to be a “normal kid without extra homework!”

So, he quit by I think 5th grade.

This PP. Backstory with FCPS GT program circa 1976 was devised to keep exceptionally bright, advanced students challenged and engaged. Used to be common practice in FCPS and elsewhere to keep advancing “gifted” students by advancing them a grade. I believe this program supplanted this practice.

My oldest sibling was in inaugural GT program and might be politically incorrect to admit but our late mother was very concerned that my sibling would be in a new cohort of weirdo/nerd/social outcasts intensely focused upon academics.

DH lamenting that he wanted to be a “normal” kid speaks to the above situation. He didn’t want to be singled out or deemed “special” or be taxed with additional work and assignments, but wanted to just do what he wanted in his assigned classroom with his regular friends and teachers. Or, as he tells it, just wanted to kick the soccer ball around after school.

There is a modern cohort of nervous wreck, anxious and socially challenged AAP kids AND parents that always gave me pause. These students very generally
over complicate, over analyze and ignore basic social norms and can be cliquey to outright nasty bullies to the “lowly base kids.”

[Anonymous]

PP and I should start a blog. I was one of the kids who instead of skipping a grade, just got forced into beginning kindergarten at age 4. FCPS wouldn’t take me (although my parents tried) and so I took a battery of tests in person, somehow involving building blocks and being observed and got myself admitted.

I was the only sibling in my large family NOT to be identified as GT and this ruined my overall confidence forever. I grew up thinking that I was positively, colossally stupid and untalented.

I was too young, too small and undeveloped (couldn’t even hold a pencil properly) and forced to start school too early. I hated school and was incredibly anxious, shy and withdrawn.

Youngest in my hs class. My friend whose birthday is one week after mine graduated a year after me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fun anecdote:

My DH begged to be realized from the then-newer FCPS GT program because he didn’t like being separated from his friends (this was when the program was pull out and after school) but most importantly, he told his parents that he just wanted to be a “normal kid without extra homework!”

So, he quit by I think 5th grade.

This PP. Backstory with FCPS GT program circa 1976 was devised to keep exceptionally bright, advanced students challenged and engaged. Used to be common practice in FCPS and elsewhere to keep advancing “gifted” students by advancing them a grade. I believe this program supplanted this practice.

My oldest sibling was in inaugural GT program and might be politically incorrect to admit but our late mother was very concerned that my sibling would be in a new cohort of weirdo/nerd/social outcasts intensely focused upon academics.

DH lamenting that he wanted to be a “normal” kid speaks to the above situation. He didn’t want to be singled out or deemed “special” or be taxed with additional work and assignments, but wanted to just do what he wanted in his assigned classroom with his regular friends and teachers. Or, as he tells it, just wanted to kick the soccer ball around after school.

There is a modern cohort of nervous wreck, anxious and socially challenged AAP kids AND parents that always gave me pause. These students very generally
over complicate, over analyze and ignore basic social norms and can be cliquey to outright nasty bullies to the “lowly base kids.”

My MIL told my SIL not to put my niece in the equivalent of GT in her area because "it wouldn't help her advance socially," which is the same as the bolded.

As someone who was a total nerd and actually learned how to interact with other kids at TJ, I find this reasoning odd. Yes you're often with quirky kids in these really advanced environments, but that means you have things to talk about together and you practice the art of conversation! Plus a whole class is not going to be exclusively Pointdexter types. It's just not.

And I think the stereotype right after what I bolded exists in any sort of quantity only at the high SES centers. At the mid-SES centers there just aren't enough of those families to set the tone for the entire program. Instead it just ends up being a place where kids who like math get more math challenge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP and I should start a blog. I was one of the kids who instead of skipping a grade, just got forced into beginning kindergarten at age 4. FCPS wouldn’t take me (although my parents tried) and so I took a battery of tests in person, somehow involving building blocks and being observed and got myself admitted.

I was the only sibling in my large family NOT to be identified as GT and this ruined my overall confidence forever. I grew up thinking that I was positively, colossally stupid and untalented.

I was too young, too small and undeveloped (couldn’t even hold a pencil properly) and forced to start school too early. I hated school and was incredibly anxious, shy and withdrawn.

Youngest in my hs class. My friend whose birthday is one week after mine graduated a year after me.

Thanks for sharing this. I'm sorry you had to go through it but I trust you now realize the GT label doesn't mean anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP and I should start a blog. I was one of the kids who instead of skipping a grade, just got forced into beginning kindergarten at age 4. FCPS wouldn’t take me (although my parents tried) and so I took a battery of tests in person, somehow involving building blocks and being observed and got myself admitted.

I was the only sibling in my large family NOT to be identified as GT and this ruined my overall confidence forever. I grew up thinking that I was positively, colossally stupid and untalented.

I was too young, too small and undeveloped (couldn’t even hold a pencil properly) and forced to start school too early. I hated school and was incredibly anxious, shy and withdrawn.

Youngest in my hs class. My friend whose birthday is one week after mine graduated a year after me.

Thanks for sharing this. I'm sorry you had to go through it but I trust you now realize the GT label doesn't mean anything.

It really, really doesn't. Just like AAP.

But that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP and I should start a blog. I was one of the kids who instead of skipping a grade, just got forced into beginning kindergarten at age 4. FCPS wouldn’t take me (although my parents tried) and so I took a battery of tests in person, somehow involving building blocks and being observed and got myself admitted.

I was the only sibling in my large family NOT to be identified as GT and this ruined my overall confidence forever. I grew up thinking that I was positively, colossally stupid and untalented.

I was too young, too small and undeveloped (couldn’t even hold a pencil properly) and forced to start school too early. I hated school and was incredibly anxious, shy and withdrawn.

Youngest in my hs class. My friend whose birthday is one week after mine graduated a year after me.

Thanks for sharing this. I'm sorry you had to go through it but I trust you now realize the GT label doesn't mean anything.

It really, really doesn't. Just like AAP.

But that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist.

It's just awful how seriously ppl take these categorical labels and how much damage this can do to the psyche.

But, some people really gain something from identifying with labels and numbers (like IQ score). To each their own. I'm glad I don't care about that (I don't know my IQ and likely never will!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AAP parent w/ DD in 5th grade now at a center school. -All the kids have been great, 3 years running, until my DD had a kid in her class this year who just didn’t seem to fit and has been slightly disruptive this year. (Also, fwiw, my kid doesn’t receive homework in her classroom.)

-He left our AAP center school and returned to his base school this past week. According to kids, he frequently complained, was disruptive and generally unhappy. So it seems he left not for academic reasons, but under the guise of being generally malcontent.

For racial equity reasons, assigning homework is highly discouraged by FCPS.