Battery Kemble Dog Park?

[Anonymous]

Sounds like this park needs to be closed to the public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was at battery kemble this AM and was shocked by the amount of trash left behind by sledders, and the damage to the hill...all the grass in any of the exposed places is gone

there was a huge pile of broken sleds, would have been easy for the sledders to carry out if they care one iota about the park

this is a national park, and yet people are whinging about dogs off leash when sledders come in and leave piles of trash, damage the environment, and every year send at least one person to the hospital?

Welcome to the world of rich, entitled people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that it's annoying but Battery Kemble has been a de facto off-leash dog park for at least the 20 years I've been taking my dog there and likely much longer. There is essentially 0% chance that this is going to change for many reasons, not the least among them that the entitled off-leash walkers are among the richest, most powerful, and influential residents of the city.

My advice to you is don't go there if you don't like it, and learn to let things go.

You are disregarding a few relevant considerations.

NPS installed new signage a year or two ago that makes the prohibition on unleashed dogs - and the associated penalties - much clearer than it was before.

NPS did not need to incur the cost and hassle of designing and installing those signs and would have done so if they were OK with it being a “de facto” dog park. Claiming that it is OK to walk unleashed dogs there is about as dumb as claiming that people should shoplift because there aren’t cops standing outside every store waiting to shoot those who don’t pay.

It’s an open question whether the Park Police is enforcing the law. The word is that they are just letting dog owners off with warnings. I have no first hand evidence that this is true.

But I do know that there are folk in the community - rich, entitled, influential folk too, I’d post - pressuring NPS to crack down on the problem. There have been a number of people and (leashed) dogs bitten by unleashed dogs over the past few years and the only way to stop this from happening is for the Park Police to make a point of handing out fines to offenders.

If the new signage has been up for two years and absolutely nothing has changed, I think that proves my point exactly that at this point it's too entrenched to change.

NPS can post all the signs you want, they can even "crack down" and issue tickets but the instant they stop people will just go right back to walking their dogs off leash. Short of posting multiple park police officers there 24/7, which will never, ever happen, Battery Kemble will always remain a de facto off leash dog park.

To make an exaggerated point, the way you are approaching this is as if we passed a law that says things must fall up, and now you're wondering why they don't. "But doesn't gravity know that it's illegal? Why are things still falling down!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it quite annoying too. You really have to be on the lookout for dog poop when picnicking there or walking the hill with kids.

Equally annoying are your kids screaming, tantrums and taking up the path.

But not equally illegal! Or dangerous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was at battery kemble this AM and was shocked by the amount of trash left behind by sledders, and the damage to the hill...all the grass in any of the exposed places is gone

there was a huge pile of broken sleds, would have been easy for the sledders to carry out if they care one iota about the park

this is a national park, and yet people are whinging about dogs off leash when sledders come in and leave piles of trash, damage the environment, and every year send at least one person to the hospital?

Welcome to the world of rich, entitled people.

Yeah, this whole thread just makes me glad that I don't live in NW.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that it's annoying but Battery Kemble has been a de facto off-leash dog park for at least the 20 years I've been taking my dog there and likely much longer. There is essentially 0% chance that this is going to change for many reasons, not the least among them that the entitled off-leash walkers are among the richest, most powerful, and influential residents of the city.

My advice to you is don't go there if you don't like it, and learn to let things go.

You are disregarding a few relevant considerations.

NPS installed new signage a year or two ago that makes the prohibition on unleashed dogs - and the associated penalties - much clearer than it was before.

NPS did not need to incur the cost and hassle of designing and installing those signs and would have done so if they were OK with it being a “de facto” dog park. Claiming that it is OK to walk unleashed dogs there is about as dumb as claiming that people should shoplift because there aren’t cops standing outside every store waiting to shoot those who don’t pay.

It’s an open question whether the Park Police is enforcing the law. The word is that they are just letting dog owners off with warnings. I have no first hand evidence that this is true.

But I do know that there are folk in the community - rich, entitled, influential folk too, I’d post - pressuring NPS to crack down on the problem. There have been a number of people and (leashed) dogs bitten by unleashed dogs over the past few years and the only way to stop this from happening is for the Park Police to make a point of handing out fines to offenders.

If the new signage has been up for two years and absolutely nothing has changed, I think that proves my point exactly that at this point it's too entrenched to change.

NPS can post all the signs you want, they can even "crack down" and issue tickets but the instant they stop people will just go right back to walking their dogs off leash. Short of posting multiple park police officers there 24/7, which will never, ever happen, Battery Kemble will always remain a de facto off leash dog park.

To make an exaggerated point, the way you are approaching this is as if we passed a law that says things must fall up, and now you're wondering why they don't. "But doesn't gravity know that it's illegal? Why are things still falling down!"

Your arguments aren’t making any more sense.

One could argue that short of posting MPD officers outside every CVS in DC 24/7, which will never, ever happen, shoplifting will always be de facto legal.

Would you like to make that case also?

This is very simple. There are signs in multiple places in that park that make it crystal clear that federal law requires your dog to be leashed while in the park.

If you want to maintain that this law doesn’t apply to you because you are special, fine, but you should at least understand that you will be a total hypocrite should you complain about any other type of lawbreaking.

If the Park Police do catch you walking your dog off leash, I can only hope you’ll have your day before a judge where you can make your “de facto” argument

[Anonymous]

Call the police each and every time. If the dog walkers have many encounters with the police and start to accumulate tickets, we can see if they really don't care about the police. But don't give in to their claim that calling police accomplishes nothing -- you don't know until you do it, over and over again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Use pepper spray on off leash dogs. Their owners will leash them and beat a hasty retreat.

Dogs shouldn’t be made to suffer for the faults of their idiotic owners.

I once asking one particularly irresponsible owner to get her dog under control only to be told that everything was fine because the dog was wearing a shock collar.

What kind of lazy, sadistic jerk would rather administer electric shocks to their pet than just hold a damn leash?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Use pepper spray on off leash dogs. Their owners will leash them and beat a hasty retreat.

PEPPER SPRAY MY DOG AND YOU WILL HAVE TO HAVE THE CANISTER SURGICALLY REMOVED FROM YOUR NOSTRILS. No different than attacking someone’s kid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Use pepper spray on off leash dogs. Their owners will leash them and beat a hasty retreat.

PEPPER SPRAY MY DOG AND YOU WILL HAVE TO HAVE THE CANISTER SURGICALLY REMOVED FROM YOUR NOSTRILS. No different than attacking someone’s kid

Calm down, Pam. You keep your dog away from me and there will be no problems. This is best accomplished by a leash but I'll leave that up to you. And make no mistake, if I have to spray you dog and you come at me, you're getting the spray too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that it's annoying but Battery Kemble has been a de facto off-leash dog park for at least the 20 years I've been taking my dog there and likely much longer. There is essentially 0% chance that this is going to change for many reasons, not the least among them that the entitled off-leash walkers are among the richest, most powerful, and influential residents of the city.

My advice to you is don't go there if you don't like it, and learn to let things go.

You are disregarding a few relevant considerations.

NPS installed new signage a year or two ago that makes the prohibition on unleashed dogs - and the associated penalties - much clearer than it was before.

NPS did not need to incur the cost and hassle of designing and installing those signs and would have done so if they were OK with it being a “de facto” dog park. Claiming that it is OK to walk unleashed dogs there is about as dumb as claiming that people should shoplift because there aren’t cops standing outside every store waiting to shoot those who don’t pay.

It’s an open question whether the Park Police is enforcing the law. The word is that they are just letting dog owners off with warnings. I have no first hand evidence that this is true.

But I do know that there are folk in the community - rich, entitled, influential folk too, I’d post - pressuring NPS to crack down on the problem. There have been a number of people and (leashed) dogs bitten by unleashed dogs over the past few years and the only way to stop this from happening is for the Park Police to make a point of handing out fines to offenders.

If the new signage has been up for two years and absolutely nothing has changed, I think that proves my point exactly that at this point it's too entrenched to change.

NPS can post all the signs you want, they can even "crack down" and issue tickets but the instant they stop people will just go right back to walking their dogs off leash. Short of posting multiple park police officers there 24/7, which will never, ever happen, Battery Kemble will always remain a de facto off leash dog park.

To make an exaggerated point, the way you are approaching this is as if we passed a law that says things must fall up, and now you're wondering why they don't. "But doesn't gravity know that it's illegal? Why are things still falling down!"

Your arguments aren’t making any more sense.

One could argue that short of posting MPD officers outside every CVS in DC 24/7, which will never, ever happen, shoplifting will always be de facto legal.

Would you like to make that case also?

This is very simple. There are signs in multiple places in that park that make it crystal clear that federal law requires your dog to be leashed while in the park.

If you want to maintain that this law doesn’t apply to you because you are special, fine, but you should at least understand that you will be a total hypocrite should you complain about any other type of lawbreaking.

If the Park Police do catch you walking your dog off leash, I can only hope you’ll have your day before a judge where you can make your “de facto” argument

Yes, that's exactly how it works. So far the social contract has held mostly fast on shoplifting but if everyone in society altogether decided nobody was going to pay for stuff anymore it would end up exactly like Battery Kemble, at least until the stores went out of business.

You seem to think I am trying to justify the status quo at Battery Kemble, but I'm not. I'm simply telling you that's how things work there. You're so hung up on how you think things should work you're unable to understand or accept that regardless of how you think things should work it will not change how things actually work.

[Anonymous]

the only reason the signs were put up is because a bunch of cranky old people complained, NPS gave in and put up the signs, and then went back to not caring.

To all you pseudo city activists, go focus on more pressing issues. I promise you, some cranky person yelling at me because my little dog is running off leash won't change a single thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Use pepper spray on off leash dogs. Their owners will leash them and beat a hasty retreat.

imagine being this scared of the world that have to pepper spray a goldendoodle. You live in DC. Worry about getting carjacked not, little fluffy Bentley trying to play fetch.

[Anonymous]

In all seriousness, the national park service explicitly bans pepper spray.

If the dispute happens to spill onto an area under DC jurisdiction, if you attack my dog with pepper spray it is legal in DC to use pepper spray in "to defend themselves or their property", and a dog counts as property.

"A person may use a self-defense spray only as reasonable force to defend themselves or their property and only if the self-defense sprays meets the requirements above."

https://mpdc.dc.gov/firearms#:~:text=Mace%2C%20Pepper%20Spray%2C%20Self%2D,as%20mace%20or%20pepper%20spray.

so if you want to be an idiot and attack a dog you will be responsible for all consequences. don't be an idiot