Suit Accuses Georgetown, Penn and M.I.T. of Admissions Based on Wealth

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nothing new here but still worth a read

“ The schools were accused of giving special treatment to wealthy students who might not otherwise have been admitted.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/17/us/lawsuit-georgetown-wealthy-students-admissions.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Schools should do this and just be transparent about the criteria. People who give $5 million or more to MIT should be able to get bright, hardworking but unspectacular kids into places like MIT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My guess is that every student you've ever known who has gotten off a T20 waitlist has been full pay. Money matters. Not surprised

Well obviously, once they go to the WL, a school knows how many Full pay have already accepted and how many on FA are attending. So yes, they will offer a spot to someone who can pay vs someone who needs aid, but the school cannot provide the aid. Point is the school wants to fill the spot with a matriculating student, and most often that means one who can actually pay for college. I don't have any issues with that. Colleges are a business. There are affordable options for everyone, but no college should be required to provide money so a kid can attend. That is on the student and their parents to be able to pay.

[Anonymous]

Of course it's ok for colleges to do this but if they do they cannot be exempt from antitrust rules that would otherwise prohibit coordinating on financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Meh, I’ll take a smattering of mediocre students in exchange for a new building or program that will improve the experience of thousands of students.

THis!!! Do people realize that the reason kids with wealthy families (those who donate 6 figures or more) are the reason a school has a new building or new whatever? Yes, I'll take 2-3 kids with extreme connections if it means better resources for all students. Also, it's no different than many of the athletes---we are not talking a kid with a 1000 SAT at MIT, we are likely talking someone with a 1300+.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rich/poor is not a constitutionally protected class. Schools give priority to poor kids (at the expense of middle class kids) - I do not get the objection to admitting rich kids who actually pay full tuition and then some.

Way to not understand the lawsuit. The schools were taking advantage of an antitrust exemption to share financial aid information. That exemption required that they be need blind.

Well every single T25 school has ways to identify if someone's family donated a building or library on campus. It's well know that will get you admission, as long as student is remotely qualified.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is baffling is people rich enough to donate millions, why do they need to go to mit or an Ivy League. They are already rich.. their kids will be fine.. why do this too?

because 99% of the time, the family donating has a rich legacy at the school. I mean if I'm going to donate $10M to a school, it's most likely my alma mater, not just "a random Ivy or MIT"

My alma mater has one family that has easily donated over $650M most recently almost $500M for major athletic project. Their name is on many things on campus. There is also a professor who donated majority of his profits from a patent--he developed a very profitable drug that everyone has heard of. He's donated most of the money to the university---his name is on the newest building on campus. He's also extremely generous with his team and employees in his department. Fairly certain if he suggests "admit a kid to the university" that kid would get seriously considered if at all remotely qualified.

[Anonymous]

Well, duh. How are the schools to survive without tuition dollars? Where do you all think that merit and financial aid for the poors is coming from?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Behind the paywall, what does the article say exactly? Simply demonstrating the admission rate difference among income tiers isn't a good enough argument without controlling for merit factors.

It isn’t a good enough factor, period. It isn’t illegal to favor wealthy people, just as it isn’t illegal to favor low income people.

Why are schools any different than, say, a country club? These are private institutions (other than taking federal research money).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Athletes should be next

This lawsuit only covers a sliver in time. The schools no longer collude on aid, so they are free to admit based on wealth

Isn’t there a statute of limitations on this stuff? Seems like whoever filed this lawsuit is just after money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meh, I’ll take a smattering of mediocre students in exchange for a new building or program that will improve the experience of thousands of students.

THis!!! Do people realize that the reason kids with wealthy families (those who donate 6 figures or more) are the reason a school has a new building or new whatever? Yes, I'll take 2-3 kids with extreme connections if it means better resources for all students. Also, it's no different than many of the athletes---we are not talking a kid with a 1000 SAT at MIT, we are likely talking someone with a 1300+.

Most of these elite colleges quite literally don’t need a new building. They take up whole sections of cities with real estate, they are fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Athletes should be next

This lawsuit only covers a sliver in time. The schools no longer collude on aid, so they are free to admit based on wealth

Isn’t there a statute of limitations on this stuff? Seems like whoever filed this lawsuit is just after money.

Yes, a price fixing lawsuit is generally about money. I'm a member of the group whose claims settled, so I'll get some money to remedy the fact that my financial aid award was probably lower than it would have been without collusion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Behind the paywall, what does the article say exactly? Simply demonstrating the admission rate difference among income tiers isn't a good enough argument without controlling for merit factors.

They're in discovery now:

"At M.I.T., two children recommended by a wealthy banker with ties to a university board member got special treatment, according to the documents. In a deposition, the school’s director of admissions said the two children, who appeared on a “cases of interest” list, were among those who “we would really have not otherwise admitted.”
...
"Penn’s former associate dean of admissions, Sara Harberson, testified last year in a deposition in the case that a B.S.I. tag meant the student’s family was a big donor or had connections to the board. Those students “were untouchable,” Ms. Harberson said, and “would get in almost 100 percent of the time.”

Ms. Harberson said the admissions office was powerless to deny the student “even if the student was incredibly weak, even if the student had a major issue in the application.”"

Seems like they have more than different rates of admission

Thanks for the additional details. This is something we've already known though. But it's time to take action on this injustice after AA.

Wow. It was AN’s Sara who was the Penn whistleblower.

I googled it and this post came up!

[Anonymous]

Well, duh
I thought everyone knew this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rich/poor is not a constitutionally protected class. Schools give priority to poor kids (at the expense of middle class kids) - I do not get the objection to admitting rich kids who actually pay full tuition and then some.

Way to not understand the lawsuit. The schools were taking advantage of an antitrust exemption to share financial aid information. That exemption required that they be need blind.

Well every single T25 school has ways to identify if someone's family donated a building or library on campus. It's well know that will get you admission, as long as student is remotely qualified.

Ostensibly “qualified” or not, when I was a professor I never wanted to see a building name in my roster. Too many horror stories, even more than with athletes (at this prominent CFP school).

[Anonymous]

Yeah you wonder what Jared Kushner's actual SAT scores.