Not enough office space: safe from RTO?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got rid of some office space during pandemic, remote employees have changed office location, although most remote employees are remote locally. Basically, some employees change teleworking status (before Covid) to remote status, with SF 50 duty station changed too.

There is no funding to get more office space (flat funding, majority of funding goes to employees' salary; while salary/other costs increase annually, there is not even enough money to fill every vacancy).

Why do you consider RTO to be unsafe.

It is very for our family as I have serious health isssues and my getting sick usually lands me in the hospital.

You should seek a reasonable accommodation or pursue disability.

The company is saying no to my spouse. I tried for disability years ago and was declined. I could probably try again but I don't have the energy to fight it again and it may be too late. I cannot work anymore.

So your plan is a wrongful termination suit when you’re let go for not coming to work? That will also take energy to fight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My (private sector) office moved to an open floor plan with hot desks before the pandemic. For everyone, including leadership. To answer some questions:

We are provided with headsets to take calls/Teams meetings. Our phone system is now integrated into Teams so all calls come through our computers or cell phones.

We also have meeting rooms of various sizes that people can reserve for private conversations or calls. There are three small “phone booths” that you can’t reserve, but I can duck into to make a personal call (make appointments, get test results, etc).

We were remote for two years during COVID. When we came back in Jan 2022, we had to rearrange our lives to accommodate commutes, childcare, and meal prep. I empathize: it’s a rat race. There was a fair amount of turnover initially. We replaced some positions, and reorganized others (which meant promotions for those who didn’t leave). And the show went on. In some respects, it was good to get new perspectives.

Many of the people who took new remote positions eventually got called back. I think the days of wide-spread remote work are over. I also don’t think it matters if it’s not for a good reason. The people who pay us want to see our butts in the office. That’s a good enough reason.

I am an empty nester so this will not upend my life aside from using up 10 hours a week commuting, costing the taxpayers $14 a day for my metro ride and some rent since we have no office space. I have not worked in the office more than 1 day a week in a decade And not at all in 3 years Most people on my project are scattered nationwide. I hope the taxpayers are happy with their spending priorities. I have a feeling most have no idea what is going on aside from Musk wants it.

Sounds great. Thanks for coming back!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My (private sector) office moved to an open floor plan with hot desks before the pandemic. For everyone, including leadership. To answer some questions:

We are provided with headsets to take calls/Teams meetings. Our phone system is now integrated into Teams so all calls come through our computers or cell phones.

We also have meeting rooms of various sizes that people can reserve for private conversations or calls. There are three small “phone booths” that you can’t reserve, but I can duck into to make a personal call (make appointments, get test results, etc).

We were remote for two years during COVID. When we came back in Jan 2022, we had to rearrange our lives to accommodate commutes, childcare, and meal prep. I empathize: it’s a rat race. There was a fair amount of turnover initially. We replaced some positions, and reorganized others (which meant promotions for those who didn’t leave). And the show went on. In some respects, it was good to get new perspectives.

Many of the people who took new remote positions eventually got called back. I think the days of wide-spread remote work are over. I also don’t think it matters if it’s not for a good reason. The people who pay us want to see our butts in the office. That’s a good enough reason.

I am an empty nester so this will not upend my life aside from using up 10 hours a week commuting, costing the taxpayers $14 a day for my metro ride and some rent since we have no office space. I have not worked in the office more than 1 day a week in a decade And not at all in 3 years Most people on my project are scattered nationwide. I hope the taxpayers are happy with their spending priorities. I have a feeling most have no idea what is going on aside from Musk wants it.

Sounds great. Thanks for coming back!

What part sounds great to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got rid of some office space during pandemic, remote employees have changed office location, although most remote employees are remote locally. Basically, some employees change teleworking status (before Covid) to remote status, with SF 50 duty station changed too.

There is no funding to get more office space (flat funding, majority of funding goes to employees' salary; while salary/other costs increase annually, there is not even enough money to fill every vacancy).

Why people are so concerned about RTO?

Because it takes planning to rearrange your family life around a new commute.

So the smart thing to do is start planning.

You need to know where you will be to plan.

I don't work for the gov, but I know this is a really stupid and inefficient waste of taxpayer money. People should be livid about it.

DP. Yes, we should all start planning. I'm a Fed who went through this administration before. I can't plan for something that is sprung on me and effective immediately. I'm already in the office twice a week and I think it's a good balance. What bothers me are the supervisors who don't enforce what we already have. If they would, maybe downtown wouldn't be as empty and people would chill about complete RTO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got rid of some office space during pandemic, remote employees have changed office location, although most remote employees are remote locally. Basically, some employees change teleworking status (before Covid) to remote status, with SF 50 duty station changed too.

There is no funding to get more office space (flat funding, majority of funding goes to employees' salary; while salary/other costs increase annually, there is not even enough money to fill every vacancy).

Why people are so concerned about RTO?

Because they are POS employees who love getting away with doing nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got rid of some office space during pandemic, remote employees have changed office location, although most remote employees are remote locally. Basically, some employees change teleworking status (before Covid) to remote status, with SF 50 duty station changed too.

There is no funding to get more office space (flat funding, majority of funding goes to employees' salary; while salary/other costs increase annually, there is not even enough money to fill every vacancy).

Why people are so concerned about RTO?

Because it takes planning to rearrange your family life around a new commute.

That's life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got rid of some office space during pandemic, remote employees have changed office location, although most remote employees are remote locally. Basically, some employees change teleworking status (before Covid) to remote status, with SF 50 duty station changed too.

There is no funding to get more office space (flat funding, majority of funding goes to employees' salary; while salary/other costs increase annually, there is not even enough money to fill every vacancy).

Why do you consider RTO to be unsafe.

It is very for our family as I have serious health isssues and my getting sick usually lands me in the hospital.

You should seek a reasonable accommodation or pursue disability.

The company is saying no to my spouse. I tried for disability years ago and was declined. I could probably try again but I don't have the energy to fight it again and it may be too late. I cannot work anymore.

This is what disability lawyers are for.

[Anonymous]

I've always been in places with cubicles or offices, no hotdesking, so I honestly don't understand how stuff like these examples function:

DH's company had that for years in-house, and it was incredibly inefficient compared to people having offices. Constantly rescheduling daily confidential calls because the conference rooms were in use, used too long, suddenly unavailable due to some other priority, and so on. Half the day was spent in endless and pointless logistics instead of work.

Private sector. If you can't get one of the desks in the long line with 1 or 2 monitors you have to float around and just hopefully find an outlet in a common space with chairs and couches that are great for lounging but awkward as hell with a laptop.

We are private sector, but they got rid of offices and our desks are lined up in long rows facing each other to fit in the maximum number of desks. We hot desk, so if you get up for a meeting or to get lunch you lose your seat and have to find a new desk. This way far more people can use the office than the number of actual desks.

So, how does work get done? Because if you want me to wander around all day looking for a seat or a conference room, fine, but I'm still going home at 5 whether I got the work done or not. So do private sector folks waste these hours looking for a space, and then stay late to do actual work because they're afraid of getting fired? Because I can guarantee you government workers I know won't do this. If they waste 3 hours of an 8 hour day on this, they are still clocking out and simply lose 3 hours of productivity. And they have protections from getting fired that DOGE can't just wave away as easily as they could theoretically require RTO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We got rid of some office space during pandemic, remote employees have changed office location, although most remote employees are remote locally. Basically, some employees change teleworking status (before Covid) to remote status, with SF 50 duty station changed too.

There is no funding to get more office space (flat funding, majority of funding goes to employees' salary; while salary/other costs increase annually, there is not even enough money to fill every vacancy).

Hahaha no.

RTO but hot-desk. Employers are awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got rid of some office space during pandemic, remote employees have changed office location, although most remote employees are remote locally. Basically, some employees change teleworking status (before Covid) to remote status, with SF 50 duty station changed too.

There is no funding to get more office space (flat funding, majority of funding goes to employees' salary; while salary/other costs increase annually, there is not even enough money to fill every vacancy).

Why people are so concerned about RTO?

Because they are POS employees who love getting away with doing nothing.

The only POS is you because you can’t even imagine people working without a boss standing two feet away. Congrats on revealing to everyone that you’re a weak willed sloth who’d take advantage if given the opportunity.

Other people are not like you. You may have few scruples and even fewer brain cells, but the rest of us are adults capable of doing our jobs. Go work on a chain gang if you can’t trust yourself to lift a finger without someone watching the whole time. But don’t make it everyone else’s problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've always been in places with cubicles or offices, no hotdesking, so I honestly don't understand how stuff like these examples function:

DH's company had that for years in-house, and it was incredibly inefficient compared to people having offices. Constantly rescheduling daily confidential calls because the conference rooms were in use, used too long, suddenly unavailable due to some other priority, and so on. Half the day was spent in endless and pointless logistics instead of work.

Private sector. If you can't get one of the desks in the long line with 1 or 2 monitors you have to float around and just hopefully find an outlet in a common space with chairs and couches that are great for lounging but awkward as hell with a laptop.

We are private sector, but they got rid of offices and our desks are lined up in long rows facing each other to fit in the maximum number of desks. We hot desk, so if you get up for a meeting or to get lunch you lose your seat and have to find a new desk. This way far more people can use the office than the number of actual desks.

So, how does work get done? Because if you want me to wander around all day looking for a seat or a conference room, fine, but I'm still going home at 5 whether I got the work done or not. So do private sector folks waste these hours looking for a space, and then stay late to do actual work because they're afraid of getting fired? Because I can guarantee you government workers I know won't do this. If they waste 3 hours of an 8 hour day on this, they are still clocking out and simply lose 3 hours of productivity. And they have protections from getting fired that DOGE can't just wave away as easily as they could theoretically require RTO.

I responded earlier, but I think the private sector folks are chiming in to bring home a bit of reality for people. I hope it's not like this for you, but they don't.care. that there are not enough desks or nice desks or desks with monitors or whatever. We need to badge in, so we do. If we stroll through the coveted areas and can't find a place to sit, we park ourselves in a common space and get to work or get on a call. I have colleagues in Paris that are on video calls strolling through the hallways of their La Defense building as they get kicked out of rooms and find a new place to work.

You can go home at 5 and not get your work done, but we have goals and measurements and I wouldn't keep someone on my team who wasn't producing. We know who gets the work done. If your public sector job is not that concrete, and it's just about being online or butts in seats, then it was not very amenable to WFH anyway, I would speculate.

It's noisy and some people have headsets (AIRPODS, man!) that pick up the noise of the person next to them. Everyone is on calls and they don't care what the people next to them are talking about. If you have something sensitive, you go book a conference room. And yes, it's all the way up the chain. Not the CEO since he's in another country, but certainly VIPS are sitting amongst hoi polloi.

Hope that helps!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've always been in places with cubicles or offices, no hotdesking, so I honestly don't understand how stuff like these examples function:

DH's company had that for years in-house, and it was incredibly inefficient compared to people having offices. Constantly rescheduling daily confidential calls because the conference rooms were in use, used too long, suddenly unavailable due to some other priority, and so on. Half the day was spent in endless and pointless logistics instead of work.

Private sector. If you can't get one of the desks in the long line with 1 or 2 monitors you have to float around and just hopefully find an outlet in a common space with chairs and couches that are great for lounging but awkward as hell with a laptop.

We are private sector, but they got rid of offices and our desks are lined up in long rows facing each other to fit in the maximum number of desks. We hot desk, so if you get up for a meeting or to get lunch you lose your seat and have to find a new desk. This way far more people can use the office than the number of actual desks.

So, how does work get done? Because if you want me to wander around all day looking for a seat or a conference room, fine, but I'm still going home at 5 whether I got the work done or not. So do private sector folks waste these hours looking for a space, and then stay late to do actual work because they're afraid of getting fired? Because I can guarantee you government workers I know won't do this. If they waste 3 hours of an 8 hour day on this, they are still clocking out and simply lose 3 hours of productivity. And they have protections from getting fired that DOGE can't just wave away as easily as they could theoretically require RTO.

I responded earlier, but I think the private sector folks are chiming in to bring home a bit of reality for people. I hope it's not like this for you, but they don't.care. that there are not enough desks or nice desks or desks with monitors or whatever. We need to badge in, so we do. If we stroll through the coveted areas and can't find a place to sit, we park ourselves in a common space and get to work or get on a call. I have colleagues in Paris that are on video calls strolling through the hallways of their La Defense building as they get kicked out of rooms and find a new place to work.

You can go home at 5 and not get your work done, but we have goals and measurements and I wouldn't keep someone on my team who wasn't producing. We know who gets the work done. If your public sector job is not that concrete, and it's just about being online or butts in seats, then it was not very amenable to WFH anyway, I would speculate.

It's noisy and some people have headsets (AIRPODS, man!) that pick up the noise of the person next to them. Everyone is on calls and they don't care what the people next to them are talking about. If you have something sensitive, you go book a conference room. And yes, it's all the way up the chain. Not the CEO since he's in another country, but certainly VIPS are sitting amongst hoi polloi.

Hope that helps!

Sounds like you just have a crappy private sector job and aren’t very employable elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got rid of some office space during pandemic, remote employees have changed office location, although most remote employees are remote locally. Basically, some employees change teleworking status (before Covid) to remote status, with SF 50 duty station changed too.

There is no funding to get more office space (flat funding, majority of funding goes to employees' salary; while salary/other costs increase annually, there is not even enough money to fill every vacancy).

Why people are so concerned about RTO?

Because they are POS employees who love getting away with doing nothing.

Try again. People do nothing at the office too. Location is not important for productivity or lack of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What kind of work do people do where you can concentrate with many, many people around you speaking all of the time? A call center? This can't be anything that involves any sort of mental concentration.

You can't. It's a GD disaster and a waste of a day each time I have to make the godforsaken trek into the sh!tty office.

Our RTO was issued for Sept 2023 and then shortly after they realized, oops, they got rid of our office space during the pandemic. They found a floor for us in a nearby sister building and changed our RTO order to be hybrid. Only the 2 highest bosses get offices. The rest of us get the use of a desk that day while in the office. We have strict set hybrid days to make sure there are enough desks for everyone. We don't have a conference room because that was taken to make a ghetto kitchen since this floor originally shared a kitchen with the floor below, but we can't do that because of security issues. Our "kitchen" has a full-size fridge, 2 tables & 8 chairs, a coffee machine, a water cooler, and a microwave. We have no dishwasher or sink so we have to wash our mugs in one of the 2 unisex bathrooms.

There's zero privacy for anything and people eventually forget this aspect, so you get to learn which coworkers are the nose pickers and the scab/skin pickers. So gross.

I get zero work done the two days each week when I'm required to be in the office. My favorite is how the team hybrid schedules don't match, so half the team may be in the office and the other half WFH that day when a meeting is scheduled, so you have 3 people in a giant room on the same Teams call as the rest of the people in their homes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've always been in places with cubicles or offices, no hotdesking, so I honestly don't understand how stuff like these examples function:

DH's company had that for years in-house, and it was incredibly inefficient compared to people having offices. Constantly rescheduling daily confidential calls because the conference rooms were in use, used too long, suddenly unavailable due to some other priority, and so on. Half the day was spent in endless and pointless logistics instead of work.

Private sector. If you can't get one of the desks in the long line with 1 or 2 monitors you have to float around and just hopefully find an outlet in a common space with chairs and couches that are great for lounging but awkward as hell with a laptop.

We are private sector, but they got rid of offices and our desks are lined up in long rows facing each other to fit in the maximum number of desks. We hot desk, so if you get up for a meeting or to get lunch you lose your seat and have to find a new desk. This way far more people can use the office than the number of actual desks.

So, how does work get done? Because if you want me to wander around all day looking for a seat or a conference room, fine, but I'm still going home at 5 whether I got the work done or not. So do private sector folks waste these hours looking for a space, and then stay late to do actual work because they're afraid of getting fired? Because I can guarantee you government workers I know won't do this. If they waste 3 hours of an 8 hour day on this, they are still clocking out and simply lose 3 hours of productivity. And they have protections from getting fired that DOGE can't just wave away as easily as they could theoretically require RTO.

I responded earlier, but I think the private sector folks are chiming in to bring home a bit of reality for people. I hope it's not like this for you, but they don't.care. that there are not enough desks or nice desks or desks with monitors or whatever. We need to badge in, so we do. If we stroll through the coveted areas and can't find a place to sit, we park ourselves in a common space and get to work or get on a call. I have colleagues in Paris that are on video calls strolling through the hallways of their La Defense building as they get kicked out of rooms and find a new place to work.

You can go home at 5 and not get your work done, but we have goals and measurements and I wouldn't keep someone on my team who wasn't producing. We know who gets the work done. If your public sector job is not that concrete, and it's just about being online or butts in seats, then it was not very amenable to WFH anyway, I would speculate.

It's noisy and some people have headsets (AIRPODS, man!) that pick up the noise of the person next to them. Everyone is on calls and they don't care what the people next to them are talking about. If you have something sensitive, you go book a conference room. And yes, it's all the way up the chain. Not the CEO since he's in another country, but certainly VIPS are sitting amongst hoi polloi.

Hope that helps!

In the federal government, I guess most workers over 40 would just qualify for a reasonable accommodation for an ergonomic chair, and the under 40s would request a private office for their ADHD.