Who should do Compacted Math?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, there's fast-teaching and there's skipping concepts, both apply to compacted math.

The spiral nature of the curriculum, even across the two vendors for 5/6, allows for minimal concept-skipping with the compaction, especially when viewed over the entire course of expected study prior to Algebra rather than viewed as a single year's content. MCPS spent considerable effort (well, considerable in the realm of that afforded to curriculum, anyway) to make that happen, as the purchased curriculum didn't offer such elementary acceleration out of the box.

The concept gap can happen more when moving from 5/6 in 5th to 7+ in 6th. Some schools have taken measures to address that. Parkland, for instance, has a rejiggered AIM based on the Illustrative Math AMP 7+ curriculum (instead of the old C 2.0 curriculum that left its own gaps with the newer IM Algebra course), but that additionally squeezes in the gap content back in and makes an attempt to "go deeper." Their terming it "AIM," though, is something of a misnomer -- it's better than the C2.0 AIM, but some parents and staff cling to that name as if it is a gold standard.

5/6 doesn’t use Illustrative math. It is all Eureka.

The 5/6 compaction I have seen from 2 years ago through this year has utilized modules from Eureka 5th & Illustrative Math 6th. It could be all Eureka in some schools, I suppose, with the lack of strict standardization across MCPS, but that would have schools and central duplicating the effort to create the compaction. It also might create greater discontinuity with the various middle school Illustrative Math options, whether 6+, 7 or 7+, though it might be that common core results in there being little difference.

We only use Eureka.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When my kids were in ES and then Pyle MS nearly everyone did compacted math. There were something like 3-4 classes for compacted and 1 for "regular".

MCPS push it because parents have pushed it. I don't know if is easing off? But you can basically decide yourself and make it known what you want.

I even tried to get my DS OUT of compacted because I felt it was going to fast and concepts were not sticking but they dissuaded me.

The criteria for compacted math are now stricter than they were even in recent years. More schools have too few kids identified to have even one class, so they have to have kids receive it virtually. This is a good thing--they are trying to identify the kids who will be successful. Previoulsy, too many kids who did compacted were not proficient in algebra when they took it.

I have a different perspective. I think it goes hand in hand with the regional CES. They skim off a bunch of kids to go to the CES who would also very likely qualify for compacted math and then they put the rest of the kids at the local school who qualified for compacted math in virtual because they no longer have a large enough cohort for a class. They should do away with the CES and just offer the curriculum at all schools and offer in person compacted math at all schools, not offer special programs for some lucky few lottery winners, and watered down programs for the other equally qualified kids and then try to spin it like it’s a good thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When my kids were in ES and then Pyle MS nearly everyone did compacted math. There were something like 3-4 classes for compacted and 1 for "regular".

MCPS push it because parents have pushed it. I don't know if is easing off? But you can basically decide yourself and make it known what you want.

I even tried to get my DS OUT of compacted because I felt it was going to fast and concepts were not sticking but they dissuaded me.

The criteria for compacted math are now stricter than they were even in recent years. More schools have too few kids identified to have even one class, so they have to have kids receive it virtually. This is a good thing--they are trying to identify the kids who will be successful. Previoulsy, too many kids who did compacted were not proficient in algebra when they took it.

I have a different perspective. I think it goes hand in hand with the regional CES. They skim off a bunch of kids to go to the CES who would also very likely qualify for compacted math and then they put the rest of the kids at the local school who qualified for compacted math in virtual because they no longer have a large enough cohort for a class. They should do away with the CES and just offer the curriculum at all schools and offer in person compacted math at all schools, not offer special programs for some lucky few lottery winners, and watered down programs for the other equally qualified kids and then try to spin it like it’s a good thing.

+100. The entire point of the ELC class was to bring the English component of the CES program to the greater number of students who remained in the local school. We’ve proven this is needed and helpful AND that it needs more standardization and collaboration amongst teachers. The obvious next step would be to train groups of 4th and 5th grade teachers such that the CES program exist (or at least could exist) in all ES schools for students who qualify. It could even be a specialized professional development path for teachers.

The additional added benefit to the school district would be decreased cost as there would be less need for CES program busing.

[Anonymous]

You know your kid best but I guess you are asking for info on the curriculum and perhaps the long term implications. It can go wrong if you do it or don’t do it.
I will say that early math grades in 1st or 2nd probably mean a lot less than 3rd or 4th.
My kid was a “genius” until 4th. It was then that his adhd made school work more challenging.
He did not do compacted math because he was moving from private school but the private school was suggesting he do accelerated math if he stayed there. We opted for the grade level path. Some years it was too easy even in Honors and some years, it was awful (Algebra 2 the year after Covid).
My son is going to a Top20 liberal arts school and I’m happy we didn’t rush him with math.
If he was destined for MIT, I would have regretted my decision I guess but I knew enough back then to know it wasn’t his path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is the one thing I regret. But of my DDs did well up until 9th grade when they were in Honors Algebra 2. It was such a rough start to high school.

Its rough for a lot of kids but parents never think ahead to this. Or having to take Calculus in 11th grade. Most kids should not be on this path. Dumb that MCPS encourages this.

It's not rough for math kids. Mine did Calculus in 10th. It was hard as they jumped to BC and not AB, but we just got a tutor. We thought ahead. Kid wanted it and I wasn't going to say no.

Your kid with a math tutor, is not a "math kid".

Yes, they are. They needed a tutor as there are no textbooks, just assignment handouts and teacher is often out for long periods of time, including 3 weeks and the solution was to teach yourself with videos.

Hate to tell you but a math kid just figures it out on their own.

No, they don’t. Why wouldn’t you get a tutor. It’s not expense.

It’s not “expense”? It’s certainly not cheap and my math kid has no need for it. Doing great in analysis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids should not working to get into Compacted Math. They should either be math loving kids who are excelling and need the acceleration or kids who for whatever reason are grasping the concepts easily and new enrichment/accleration.

As others mentioned thinking ahead and paying attention to how kids are doing each year is critical. Because what seems easy in 4th grade, starts to really become a lot of necessary concepts to grasp and have solid foundation of each year.

As someone else noted the criteria for entry and staying is becoming stricter, because MCPS wants to see kids doing well all the way through, particularly in Alg1 and Alg2. This means Profecieny or Distinguished on the MCAP.

Almost no one gets Distinguished on MCAP, not even kids winning national extra curricular math recognition a year or two above grade level.

MCAP scale is ridiculous and opaque

Really? Both my kids have scored distinguished on MCAP in math multiple times and older one got perfect scores in math in PSAT (hasn’t taken SAT yet). Neither have won “national extra curricular math recognition a year or two above grade level”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When my kids were in ES and then Pyle MS nearly everyone did compacted math. There were something like 3-4 classes for compacted and 1 for "regular".

MCPS push it because parents have pushed it. I don't know if is easing off? But you can basically decide yourself and make it known what you want.

I even tried to get my DS OUT of compacted because I felt it was going to fast and concepts were not sticking but they dissuaded me.

The criteria for compacted math are now stricter than they were even in recent years. More schools have too few kids identified to have even one class, so they have to have kids receive it virtually. This is a good thing--they are trying to identify the kids who will be successful. Previoulsy, too many kids who did compacted were not proficient in algebra when they took it.

I have a different perspective. I think it goes hand in hand with the regional CES. They skim off a bunch of kids to go to the CES who would also very likely qualify for compacted math and then they put the rest of the kids at the local school who qualified for compacted math in virtual because they no longer have a large enough cohort for a class. They should do away with the CES and just offer the curriculum at all schools and offer in person compacted math at all schools, not offer special programs for some lucky few lottery winners, and watered down programs for the other equally qualified kids and then try to spin it like it’s a good thing.

It was really strange this was the only part of virtual they kept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is the one thing I regret. But of my DDs did well up until 9th grade when they were in Honors Algebra 2. It was such a rough start to high school.

Its rough for a lot of kids but parents never think ahead to this. Or having to take Calculus in 11th grade. Most kids should not be on this path. Dumb that MCPS encourages this.

It's not rough for math kids. Mine did Calculus in 10th. It was hard as they jumped to BC and not AB, but we just got a tutor. We thought ahead. Kid wanted it and I wasn't going to say no.

Your kid with a math tutor, is not a "math kid".

Yes, they are. They needed a tutor as there are no textbooks, just assignment handouts and teacher is often out for long periods of time, including 3 weeks and the solution was to teach yourself with videos.

Hate to tell you but a math kid just figures it out on their own.

No, they don’t. Why wouldn’t you get a tutor. It’s not expense.

It’s not “expense”? It’s certainly not cheap and my math kid has no need for it. Doing great in analysis.

We have an online tutor for under $20 an hour. Very affordable and if you want more, that's the only way to get it if you aren't willing to do it yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When my kids were in ES and then Pyle MS nearly everyone did compacted math. There were something like 3-4 classes for compacted and 1 for "regular".

MCPS push it because parents have pushed it. I don't know if is easing off? But you can basically decide yourself and make it known what you want.

I even tried to get my DS OUT of compacted because I felt it was going to fast and concepts were not sticking but they dissuaded me.

The criteria for compacted math are now stricter than they were even in recent years. More schools have too few kids identified to have even one class, so they have to have kids receive it virtually. This is a good thing--they are trying to identify the kids who will be successful. Previoulsy, too many kids who did compacted were not proficient in algebra when they took it.

I have a different perspective. I think it goes hand in hand with the regional CES. They skim off a bunch of kids to go to the CES who would also very likely qualify for compacted math and then they put the rest of the kids at the local school who qualified for compacted math in virtual because they no longer have a large enough cohort for a class. They should do away with the CES and just offer the curriculum at all schools and offer in person compacted math at all schools, not offer special programs for some lucky few lottery winners, and watered down programs for the other equally qualified kids and then try to spin it like it’s a good thing.

They have been skimming off kids for CES for a long time. The tighter standards for placement in compacted math are driving the switch to virtual in some schools — there just aren’t enough kids being identified.

But I agree with you. CES is a real problem especially now that it is a lottery. Same with middle school magnets. They should be meetings bright students’
Needs at their local schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When my kids were in ES and then Pyle MS nearly everyone did compacted math. There were something like 3-4 classes for compacted and 1 for "regular".

MCPS push it because parents have pushed it. I don't know if is easing off? But you can basically decide yourself and make it known what you want.

I even tried to get my DS OUT of compacted because I felt it was going to fast and concepts were not sticking but they dissuaded me.

The criteria for compacted math are now stricter than they were even in recent years. More schools have too few kids identified to have even one class, so they have to have kids receive it virtually. This is a good thing--they are trying to identify the kids who will be successful. Previoulsy, too many kids who did compacted were not proficient in algebra when they took it.

I have a different perspective. I think it goes hand in hand with the regional CES. They skim off a bunch of kids to go to the CES who would also very likely qualify for compacted math and then they put the rest of the kids at the local school who qualified for compacted math in virtual because they no longer have a large enough cohort for a class. They should do away with the CES and just offer the curriculum at all schools and offer in person compacted math at all schools, not offer special programs for some lucky few lottery winners, and watered down programs for the other equally qualified kids and then try to spin it like it’s a good thing.

+100. The entire point of the ELC class was to bring the English component of the CES program to the greater number of students who remained in the local school. We’ve proven this is needed and helpful AND that it needs more standardization and collaboration amongst teachers. The obvious next step would be to train groups of 4th and 5th grade teachers such that the CES program exist (or at least could exist) in all ES schools for students who qualify. It could even be a specialized professional development path for teachers.

The additional added benefit to the school district would be decreased cost as there would be less need for CES program busing.

ELC is not the same as CES. It does have some elements. But at the CCES CES at least, they don’t just enrich ELA. They enrich all content, including social studies, science, and math. Yes, even math.
All CES kids do compacted math, but it goes beyond what is offered to other students. They go through content even more quickly and do special applications and projects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When my kids were in ES and then Pyle MS nearly everyone did compacted math. There were something like 3-4 classes for compacted and 1 for "regular".

MCPS push it because parents have pushed it. I don't know if is easing off? But you can basically decide yourself and make it known what you want.

I even tried to get my DS OUT of compacted because I felt it was going to fast and concepts were not sticking but they dissuaded me.

The criteria for compacted math are now stricter than they were even in recent years. More schools have too few kids identified to have even one class, so they have to have kids receive it virtually. This is a good thing--they are trying to identify the kids who will be successful. Previoulsy, too many kids who did compacted were not proficient in algebra when they took it.

I have a different perspective. I think it goes hand in hand with the regional CES. They skim off a bunch of kids to go to the CES who would also very likely qualify for compacted math and then they put the rest of the kids at the local school who qualified for compacted math in virtual because they no longer have a large enough cohort for a class. They should do away with the CES and just offer the curriculum at all schools and offer in person compacted math at all schools, not offer special programs for some lucky few lottery winners, and watered down programs for the other equally qualified kids and then try to spin it like it’s a good thing.

+100. The entire point of the ELC class was to bring the English component of the CES program to the greater number of students who remained in the local school. We’ve proven this is needed and helpful AND that it needs more standardization and collaboration amongst teachers. The obvious next step would be to train groups of 4th and 5th grade teachers such that the CES program exist (or at least could exist) in all ES schools for students who qualify. It could even be a specialized professional development path for teachers.

The additional added benefit to the school district would be decreased cost as there would be less need for CES program busing.

- ELC is not the same as CES. It does have some elements.

True

- But at the CCES CES at least, they don’t just enrich ELA. They enrich all content, including social studies, science, and math. Yes, even math.

False


- All CES kids do compacted math, but it goes beyond what is offered to other students. They go through content even more quickly and do special applications and projects.

False.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When my kids were in ES and then Pyle MS nearly everyone did compacted math. There were something like 3-4 classes for compacted and 1 for "regular".

MCPS push it because parents have pushed it. I don't know if is easing off? But you can basically decide yourself and make it known what you want.

I even tried to get my DS OUT of compacted because I felt it was going to fast and concepts were not sticking but they dissuaded me.

The criteria for compacted math are now stricter than they were even in recent years. More schools have too few kids identified to have even one class, so they have to have kids receive it virtually. This is a good thing--they are trying to identify the kids who will be successful. Previoulsy, too many kids who did compacted were not proficient in algebra when they took it.

I have a different perspective. I think it goes hand in hand with the regional CES. They skim off a bunch of kids to go to the CES who would also very likely qualify for compacted math and then they put the rest of the kids at the local school who qualified for compacted math in virtual because they no longer have a large enough cohort for a class. They should do away with the CES and just offer the curriculum at all schools and offer in person compacted math at all schools, not offer special programs for some lucky few lottery winners, and watered down programs for the other equally qualified kids and then try to spin it like it’s a good thing.

They can't offer the curriculum at all schools because they can't have class for 8 kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When my kids were in ES and then Pyle MS nearly everyone did compacted math. There were something like 3-4 classes for compacted and 1 for "regular".

MCPS push it because parents have pushed it. I don't know if is easing off? But you can basically decide yourself and make it known what you want.

I even tried to get my DS OUT of compacted because I felt it was going to fast and concepts were not sticking but they dissuaded me.

The criteria for compacted math are now stricter than they were even in recent years. More schools have too few kids identified to have even one class, so they have to have kids receive it virtually. This is a good thing--they are trying to identify the kids who will be successful. Previoulsy, too many kids who did compacted were not proficient in algebra when they took it.

I have a different perspective. I think it goes hand in hand with the regional CES. They skim off a bunch of kids to go to the CES who would also very likely qualify for compacted math and then they put the rest of the kids at the local school who qualified for compacted math in virtual because they no longer have a large enough cohort for a class. They should do away with the CES and just offer the curriculum at all schools and offer in person compacted math at all schools, not offer special programs for some lucky few lottery winners, and watered down programs for the other equally qualified kids and then try to spin it like it’s a good thing.

+100. The entire point of the ELC class was to bring the English component of the CES program to the greater number of students who remained in the local school. We’ve proven this is needed and helpful AND that it needs more standardization and collaboration amongst teachers. The obvious next step would be to train groups of 4th and 5th grade teachers such that the CES program exist (or at least could exist) in all ES schools for students who qualify. It could even be a specialized professional development path for teachers.

The additional added benefit to the school district would be decreased cost as there would be less need for CES program busing.

- ELC is not the same as CES. It does have some elements.

True

- But at the CCES CES at least, they don’t just enrich ELA. They enrich all content, including social studies, science, and math. Yes, even math.

False


- All CES kids do compacted math, but it goes beyond what is offered to other students. They go through content even more quickly and do special applications and projects.

False.

I have direct experience with the CCES program and it is definitely enriched across the curriculum, not just in ELA. Other Centers may be different.

[Anonymous]

Going to try again since formatting is off — I have direct experience with the CCES CES program, and it is definitely enriched throughout. That may not be the case at all Centers, given the discretion that regional
CES programs and teachers are provided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Going to try again since formatting is off — I have direct experience with the CCES CES program, and it is definitely enriched throughout. That may not be the case at all Centers, given the discretion that regional
CES programs and teachers are provided.

Which is exactly why things across schools generally need to be standardized. Yes teachers should have autonomy but similar programs and curriculum should offer then’ same base level understanding and experience.