Was Told By College Admissions Officer That Sidwell Secretly Ranks Students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the philosophy behind not telling students their rank?

Quakerism.

No it’s not. Most of the privates don’t rank, not just Sidwell.

Most privates also do not use a weighted GPA system. So, the 4.0 students could have taken radically different paths in terms of rigor.

Which colleges can see on the transcript.

Yes, rigor gets a different "rating" than GPA. Look at the scoring rubric for the college you are interested in.
I learned its not the same.
Ex. Duke and Stanford have very interesting rubrics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They likely due this by request of the schools. Our private is open with the fact that colleges compare kids against each other openly--basically lay the applications on the table and go down the row.

Interesting. GDS on the other hand tells parents over and over that the students are not competing against each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They likely due this by request of the schools. Our private is open with the fact that colleges compare kids against each other openly--basically lay the applications on the table and go down the row.

Interesting. GDS on the other hand tells parents over and over that the students are not competing against each other.

College AOs would disagree with GDS. However, if GDS doesn’t want its students to **think** they’re competing with one another, then that’s their prerogative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They likely due this by request of the schools. Our private is open with the fact that colleges compare kids against each other openly--basically lay the applications on the table and go down the row.

Interesting. GDS on the other hand tells parents over and over that the students are not competing against each other.

This is such a bunch of crap. Colleges always, always compare kids at the same high school against each other. It doesn't mean that they take the top GPAs but they view them as a group. Yes, even kids at GDS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the philosophy behind not telling students their rank?

Quakerism.

No it’s not. Most of the privates don’t rank, not just Sidwell.

True - but Quakerism is what Sidwell says as their reason. (not meant as a snide comment, just sharing the messaging while we were there)

[Anonymous]

All schools do that, OP, both public and private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the philosophy behind not telling students their rank?

Quakerism.

No it’s not. Most of the privates don’t rank, not just Sidwell.

Most privates also do not use a weighted GPA system. So, the 4.0 students could have taken radically different paths in terms of rigor.

And this is exactly where the "secret ranking" is problematic - especially if they are choosing to do this only for some students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the philosophy behind not telling students their rank?

Quakerism.

No it’s not. Most of the privates don’t rank, not just Sidwell.

Most privates also do not use a weighted GPA system. So, the 4.0 students could have taken radically different paths in terms of rigor.

And this is exactly where the "secret ranking" is problematic - especially if they are choosing to do this only for some students.

I assume the counselor’s “ranking” takes rigor into account somehow. Otherwise it would make no sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the philosophy behind not telling students their rank?

Quakerism.

No it’s not. Most of the privates don’t rank, not just Sidwell.

Most privates also do not use a weighted GPA system. So, the 4.0 students could have taken radically different paths in terms of rigor.

Which colleges can see on the transcript.

Giving a ranked GPA is much faster for colleges to see (and this should be done for all students - even if secretly). The amount of difference in work between the rigor and non-rigor math/science classes is no joke. (coming from a parent of a student whose DC still has high gpa with rigor - so this is not sour grapes...but it's a reality)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
All schools do that, OP, both public and private.

Are you a public parent? Maybe your school doesn't "rank" students but there's a huge difference between public, where GPA IS calculated and GPA IS weighted and a private where there is no official GPA and even the mocked up one isn't weighted. Being told GPA is not calculated or given to colleges but then having CCO and that there are no rankings - but then CCO chooses to "reveal" a rank for some students is not ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue here is that Sidwell tells families they don't rank at all and tells families that they don't tell colleges anything about rank.

Two other issues are:
- Since this is done secretly, they can do this unevenly (for connected vs favorites vs not).

- It should not just be top 5 or 10 students but also include this information for someone in top 5-10% with a ranking that includes rigor.

It was very clear, after the fact, that the counseling office (and HOS, to be frank) was going to bat for a set of kids while essentially merely paper pushing for others (which includes a solid set of unhooked high stats kids).

Nonsense! There was a student who sued Sidwell several years ago, regarding grading policies, and she was still admitted to and graduated from UPenn. How strongly do you think Sidwell went to bat for her during the admissions process? 🙄

College admissions has changed dramatically since 2019. It used to be that high rigor high stats kids (even unhooked) would have a great shot at T20. Not true anymore (not a complaint - that's life).

Plus, I believe she had a hook.

You’re full of excuses. She sued Sidwell 5 years ago, not 25 years ago. She was then admitted to an Ivy, not a mere T20. What hook did she have, besides being Black? Do you honestly think that’s enough of a hook to overcome suing her high school?
I’m sure that UPenn could have admitted other Bkack students, with similar or better stats, who did NOT sue their high school.

Face it, Sidwell isn’t preventing any students from being admitted to top colleges.

Wrong. Her parents had sued Sidwell before, and in retaliation the school blackballed her everywhere including Penn, which denied her application. The only school where Sidwell gave her an “excellent” rating was Spelman. Then she sued, and the next year applied again to Penn, and that time she was accepted.

https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2019/06/17/parents-sue-elite-private-school-after-daughter-rejected-top-colleges

As everyone said at the time, this is how private schools work. The ranks they give in their recommendations aren’t true ranks and aren’t consistent from college to college. That was Sidwell’s legal defense, that this is how they ordinarily operate. So yes, I believe that’s how they operate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the philosophy behind not telling students their rank?

Quakerism.

No it’s not. Most of the privates don’t rank, not just Sidwell.

Most privates also do not use a weighted GPA system. So, the 4.0 students could have taken radically different paths in terms of rigor.

And this is exactly where the "secret ranking" is problematic - especially if they are choosing to do this only for some students.

I assume the counselor’s “ranking” takes rigor into account somehow. Otherwise it would make no sense.

You are missing the point - the issue is that CCO says they don't do this at all - so it'd extra problematic if they secretly do this for "some" students. I can assure you that the CCOs did not give a secret ranking for the set of unhooked high gpa/rigor students in our DC's class. They would barely answer questions - let alone go to bat for them behind the scenes in a letter. Frankly, they barely knew the students at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue here is that Sidwell tells families they don't rank at all and tells families that they don't tell colleges anything about rank.

Two other issues are:
- Since this is done secretly, they can do this unevenly (for connected vs favorites vs not).

- It should not just be top 5 or 10 students but also include this information for someone in top 5-10% with a ranking that includes rigor.

It was very clear, after the fact, that the counseling office (and HOS, to be frank) was going to bat for a set of kids while essentially merely paper pushing for others (which includes a solid set of unhooked high stats kids).

Nonsense! There was a student who sued Sidwell several years ago, regarding grading policies, and she was still admitted to and graduated from UPenn. How strongly do you think Sidwell went to bat for her during the admissions process? 🙄

College admissions has changed dramatically since 2019. It used to be that high rigor high stats kids (even unhooked) would have a great shot at T20. Not true anymore (not a complaint - that's life).

Plus, I believe she had a hook.

You’re full of excuses. She sued Sidwell 5 years ago, not 25 years ago. She was then admitted to an Ivy, not a mere T20. What hook did she have, besides being Black? Do you honestly think that’s enough of a hook to overcome suing her high school?
I’m sure that UPenn could have admitted other Bkack students, with similar or better stats, who did NOT sue their high school.

Face it, Sidwell isn’t preventing any students from being admitted to top colleges.

Wrong. Her parents had sued Sidwell before, and in retaliation the school blackballed her everywhere including Penn, which denied her application. The only school where Sidwell gave her an “excellent” rating was Spelman. Then she sued, and the next year applied again to Penn, and that time she was accepted.

https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2019/06/17/parents-sue-elite-private-school-after-daughter-rejected-top-colleges

As everyone said at the time, this is how private schools work. The ranks they give in their recommendations aren’t true ranks and aren’t consistent from college to college. That was Sidwell’s legal defense, that this is how they ordinarily operate. So yes, I believe that’s how they operate.

Did you read this part of the article you cited:

“But Sidwell argued, and the appeals court said that there was no evidence to counter, a different interpretation. The counselor testified that she compares applicants to others from Sidwell applying to the same college. So it is possible that, compared to those applying to one college, a student may be stronger than when compared to those applying to another college.”

Sidwell argued that she was an “excellent” applicant compared to other students applying to Spelman from Sidwell that year (I suspect the number of Sidwell applicants are usually zero to low single digits). Compared to Sidwell students applying to Dartmouth, Harvard, and Penn, the CCO rated her as “good” or “very good.” The court agreed with Sidwell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the philosophy behind not telling students their rank?

Quakerism.

No it’s not. Most of the privates don’t rank, not just Sidwell.

Most privates also do not use a weighted GPA system. So, the 4.0 students could have taken radically different paths in terms of rigor.

And this is exactly where the "secret ranking" is problematic - especially if they are choosing to do this only for some students.

I assume the counselor’s “ranking” takes rigor into account somehow. Otherwise it would make no sense.

You are missing the point - the issue is that CCO says they don't do this at all - so it'd extra problematic if they secretly do this for "some" students. I can assure you that the CCOs did not give a secret ranking for the set of unhooked high gpa/rigor students in our DC's class. They would barely answer questions - let alone go to bat for them behind the scenes in a letter. Frankly, they barely knew the students at all.

There’s no secret ranking and there’s no Sidwell conspiracy here. When colleges ask Sidwell to compare applicants applying to that particular college, Sidwell does so.

Should a high school that doesn’t rank, weight GPAs, or provide honors differentiate students in some other way? If so, how?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They likely due this by request of the schools. Our private is open with the fact that colleges compare kids against each other openly--basically lay the applications on the table and go down the row.

Interesting. GDS on the other hand tells parents over and over that the students are not competing against each other.

This is such a bunch of crap. Colleges always, always compare kids at the same high school against each other. It doesn't mean that they take the top GPAs but they view them as a group. Yes, even kids at GDS.

+1 and they will even call the CC to tell them things like, sorry you need to prepare parents that we can only fit on one twin and will be rejecting the other because they straddle the cut line (as in one less kid on the list and both twins would have been in).