Broken downspout dumping water by foundation

[Anonymous]

It's almost like if you have good downspouts and grading you don't really need perimeter drains.

[Anonymous]

If you’re building a new house, why wouldn’t you put in drains? How much money can it save?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's almost like if you have good downspouts and grading you don't really need perimeter drains.

They are always needed to keep the soil beneath the footings from being saturated causing settlement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sump pumps and perimeter drains are absolutely NOT required, not a default part of new home construction. As a PP noted in their work - same in mine (in multi-million $$$ custom builds) -while installed in some but I certainly do not include in all. But the short term black flex pipe solution for OP is fine until downspout re-connected.

Can you show me a multi million custom build with a finished basement and no perimeter drains? That is wild to me. I’m not questioning you, I just want to know how/where it works. Every house in the DC area I’ve lived in has either had a damp basement or drains.

Several in McLean or Bethesda done by local “flipper” construction companies - usually built on speculation (or by a family with a limited construction budget which was mostly spent on getting the land). Those builders will spend money on superficial finishes, but they cut corners like mad in structural or waterproofing areas where a buyer cannot easily see how it was built after construction is complete. Those houses just meet code as interpreted by the local county inspector - barely - but they initially look great to a naive buyer (and there are many naive buyers out there).

Damp basements are very common on both sides of the river. A common local approach to basement “waterproofing” is to put tar or similar on the outside of the foundation below grade - with maybe some drain tile around the perimeter. That will work fine for maybe 5-10 years, but eventually it will degrade and a damp or wet basement is the final result. Code allows this. The better approach puts a waterproof membrane in place with drain board and drain tile, and sometimes an exterior sump if cannot drain to daylight by gravity — but that is uncommon locally because of the extra time and expense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It should be fine, OP. Not ideal but your house has perimeter drains and if they’re working properly, they can handle it.

Utter nonsense.

If perimeter drains could handle it, why would the house have gutters and downspouts?

There was a time after perimeter drains were introduced, in the 50's and 60's, when people thought they were magic and could handle any amount of water. Houses were built without gutters and downspouts. Those that are still standing were retrofitted with gutters and downspouts.

All homes built after 90s have exterior French drains and sump , you should be able to not ever have water in the basement even if a downspout fails.

Again, utter nonsense.

A typical summer rainstorm might drop an inch of rain in an hour. If a house has one thousand square feet of roof, that's 83 cubic feet per hour, or 667 gallons per hour or 11 gallons per minute. The perimeter drains are a horizontal pipe, they're going to be completely overwhelmed by that level of flow.

They are meant as a backup for any water that gets past the gutters and downspouts, they're not meant to take the whole flow.

Okay but one storm? Wouldn’t the water just sit by the foundation for a few hours waiting to drain? I’m not saying it’s good but I would be shocked if that led to an immediate problem.

Depends a lot on the type of soil. Many parts of the local area have maybe 1-2cm of top soil and then marine clay. Water sitting on marine clay is mostly going to sit in place unless gravity pulls it away from the foundation. Slopes downward by the foundation on all sides to pull water away are terribly important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay but I’m not sure they can build a house without perimeter drains.

They can, they do, those houses pass inspection, and it does not violate local interpretations of building code. You seem greatly confused about the reality of the situation.

And remember, code always is a bare minimum. “Best practice” would be mean building much better than code. The perimeter drains you obsess on are “best practice” - not the minimum requirement to meet code.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sump pumps and perimeter drains are absolutely NOT required, not a default part of new home construction. As a PP noted in their work - same in mine (in multi-million $$$ custom builds) -while installed in some but I certainly do not include in all. But the short term black flex pipe solution for OP is fine until downspout re-connected.

Can you show me a multi million custom build with a finished basement and no perimeter drains? That is wild to me. I’m not questioning you, I just want to know how/where it works. Every house in the DC area I’ve lived in has either had a damp basement or drains.

Several in McLean or Bethesda done by local “flipper” construction companies - usually built on speculation (or by a family with a limited construction budget which was mostly spent on getting the land). Those builders will spend money on superficial finishes, but they cut corners like mad in structural or waterproofing areas where a buyer cannot easily see how it was built after construction is complete. Those houses just meet code as interpreted by the local county inspector - barely - but they initially look great to a naive buyer (and there are many naive buyers out there).

Damp basements are very common on both sides of the river. A common local approach to basement “waterproofing” is to put tar or similar on the outside of the foundation below grade - with maybe some drain tile around the perimeter. That will work fine for maybe 5-10 years, but eventually it will degrade and a damp or wet basement is the final result. Code allows this. The better approach puts a waterproof membrane in place with drain board and drain tile, and sometimes an exterior sump if cannot drain to daylight by gravity — but that is uncommon locally because of the extra time and expense.

What is in exterior sump? How would you get to it? Wouldn’t it freeze? Do they have those in our area?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It should be fine, OP. Not ideal but your house has perimeter drains and if they’re working properly, they can handle it.

Utter nonsense.

If perimeter drains could handle it, why would the house have gutters and downspouts?

There was a time after perimeter drains were introduced, in the 50's and 60's, when people thought they were magic and could handle any amount of water. Houses were built without gutters and downspouts. Those that are still standing were retrofitted with gutters and downspouts.

All homes built after 90s have exterior French drains and sump , you should be able to not ever have water in the basement even if a downspout fails.

Again, utter nonsense.

A typical summer rainstorm might drop an inch of rain in an hour. If a house has one thousand square feet of roof, that's 83 cubic feet per hour, or 667 gallons per hour or 11 gallons per minute. The perimeter drains are a horizontal pipe, they're going to be completely overwhelmed by that level of flow.

They are meant as a backup for any water that gets past the gutters and downspouts, they're not meant to take the whole flow.

Okay but one storm? Wouldn’t the water just sit by the foundation for a few hours waiting to drain? I’m not saying it’s good but I would be shocked if that led to an immediate problem.

Depends a lot on the type of soil. Many parts of the local area have maybe 1-2cm of top soil and then marine clay. Water sitting on marine clay is mostly going to sit in place unless gravity pulls it away from the foundation. Slopes downward by the foundation on all sides to pull water away are terribly important.

I live in a neighborhood where there is an old spring on top of the highest hill and water pushes up through cracks in the street after heavy rains. I doubt you could have a dry basement here just from grading. But I don’t really know I’m just happy my house is working.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay but I’m not sure they can build a house without perimeter drains.

They can, they do, those houses pass inspection, and it does not violate local interpretations of building code. You seem greatly confused about the reality of the situation.

And remember, code always is a bare minimum. “Best practice” would be mean building much better than code. The perimeter drains you obsess on are “best practice” - not the minimum requirement to meet code.

I think I’m like most homeowners where I’m not “obsessed” about any of this and would much prefer not to think about it at all - I just want to keep my family home safe and functional without getting completely ripped off. Basements are one of those areas where it’s basically impossible to get a straight answer because a) it’s complicated with a lot of variation between sites and b) scammers abound.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay but I’m not sure they can build a house without perimeter drains.

They can, they do, those houses pass inspection, and it does not violate local interpretations of building code. You seem greatly confused about the reality of the situation.

And remember, code always is a bare minimum. “Best practice” would be mean building much better than code. The perimeter drains you obsess on are “best practice” - not the minimum requirement to meet code.

I think I’m like most homeowners where I’m not “obsessed” about any of this and would much prefer not to think about it at all - I just want to keep my family home safe and functional without getting completely ripped off. Basements are one of those areas where it’s basically impossible to get a straight answer because a) it’s complicated with a lot of variation between sites and b) scammers abound.

a) and b) are so true!