Puddle jumper for 25lb 3-year-old

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.facebook.com/WaterGuardiansLevisLegacy/posts/levi-wore-a-puddle-jumper-in-the-pool-mere-hours-before-he-died-i-thought-i-was-/400424450568839/

I don't know how you could read/watch this and ever use a puddle jumper again. Its willful ignorance.

The issue is people using puddle jumpers INSTEAD of swim lessons. That post and video both clearly explain the risk of puddle jumpers which is that they put kids in an upright position in the pool when they need to learn out to float on their backs. No one is advising using the puddle jumper that way on this thread.

We used the puddle jumper CONCURRENTLY with swim lessons that emphasized water safety and proper position. We also never let our kid go in or near the water unsupervised regardless of whether they were wearing a puddle jumper or not.

The scenario you are talking about is a child with no swim training whatsoever who acclimates to wearing a puddle jumper in the pool and assumes that's how swimming works and then falls or jumps in a pool and assumes the "puddle jumper position" (upright) and drowns. The man in that video talks about creating layers of protection for kids to avoid drowning. I agree. If you do not have a backyard pool (so no chance of your child wandering near or into the pool without your supervision) and only go to the pool when you can be watching the child attentively the whole time AND enroll your child in swim lessons as soon as possible AND reinforce the lessons on your own with supervised practice then there is absolutely no danger in ALSO letting your child sometimes play around in the pool wearing a puddle jumper. Because you already have several other layers of protection in place to prevent drowning.

It is very tragic when a child drowns. I have nothing but compassion for parents who go through that. But you can't assume that a single factor is the determining factor when there are a bunch of other factors that might not be the same in your situation. The post at the link talks about a child who used a puddle jumper and had no swimming lessons under his belt and then accessed a backyard pool on his own. That's awful but is not a situation my kid has ever or will ever be in.

How many 5 year olds in "swim lessons" still can't swim despite being in a puddle jumper since 2?

How many of you are using a car seat discouraged by most car safety experts? Yeah, didn't think so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.facebook.com/WaterGuardiansLevisLegacy/posts/levi-wore-a-puddle-jumper-in-the-pool-mere-hours-before-he-died-i-thought-i-was-/400424450568839/

I don't know how you could read/watch this and ever use a puddle jumper again. Its willful ignorance.

The issue is people using puddle jumpers INSTEAD of swim lessons. That post and video both clearly explain the risk of puddle jumpers which is that they put kids in an upright position in the pool when they need to learn out to float on their backs. No one is advising using the puddle jumper that way on this thread.

We used the puddle jumper CONCURRENTLY with swim lessons that emphasized water safety and proper position. We also never let our kid go in or near the water unsupervised regardless of whether they were wearing a puddle jumper or not.

The scenario you are talking about is a child with no swim training whatsoever who acclimates to wearing a puddle jumper in the pool and assumes that's how swimming works and then falls or jumps in a pool and assumes the "puddle jumper position" (upright) and drowns. The man in that video talks about creating layers of protection for kids to avoid drowning. I agree. If you do not have a backyard pool (so no chance of your child wandering near or into the pool without your supervision) and only go to the pool when you can be watching the child attentively the whole time AND enroll your child in swim lessons as soon as possible AND reinforce the lessons on your own with supervised practice then there is absolutely no danger in ALSO letting your child sometimes play around in the pool wearing a puddle jumper. Because you already have several other layers of protection in place to prevent drowning.

It is very tragic when a child drowns. I have nothing but compassion for parents who go through that. But you can't assume that a single factor is the determining factor when there are a bunch of other factors that might not be the same in your situation. The post at the link talks about a child who used a puddle jumper and had no swimming lessons under his belt and then accessed a backyard pool on his own. That's awful but is not a situation my kid has ever or will ever be in.

How many 5 year olds in "swim lessons" still can't swim despite being in a puddle jumper since 2?

How many of you are using a car seat discouraged by most car safety experts? Yeah, didn't think so.

1) I have no idea but my kid learned to swim at 4 despite regularly using a puddle jumper so I don't buy that the puddle jumper somehow prevents learning to swim

2) Totally irrelevant but since you asked my kid was rear-facing until 4.5 and is still in a 5-point harness (high back booster) at almost 7 so your theory that people who use puddle jumpers like to play fast and loose with child safety is incorrect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.facebook.com/WaterGuardiansLevisLegacy/posts/levi-wore-a-puddle-jumper-in-the-pool-mere-hours-before-he-died-i-thought-i-was-/400424450568839/

I don't know how you could read/watch this and ever use a puddle jumper again. Its willful ignorance.

The issue is people using puddle jumpers INSTEAD of swim lessons. That post and video both clearly explain the risk of puddle jumpers which is that they put kids in an upright position in the pool when they need to learn out to float on their backs. No one is advising using the puddle jumper that way on this thread.

We used the puddle jumper CONCURRENTLY with swim lessons that emphasized water safety and proper position. We also never let our kid go in or near the water unsupervised regardless of whether they were wearing a puddle jumper or not.

The scenario you are talking about is a child with no swim training whatsoever who acclimates to wearing a puddle jumper in the pool and assumes that's how swimming works and then falls or jumps in a pool and assumes the "puddle jumper position" (upright) and drowns. The man in that video talks about creating layers of protection for kids to avoid drowning. I agree. If you do not have a backyard pool (so no chance of your child wandering near or into the pool without your supervision) and only go to the pool when you can be watching the child attentively the whole time AND enroll your child in swim lessons as soon as possible AND reinforce the lessons on your own with supervised practice then there is absolutely no danger in ALSO letting your child sometimes play around in the pool wearing a puddle jumper. Because you already have several other layers of protection in place to prevent drowning.

It is very tragic when a child drowns. I have nothing but compassion for parents who go through that. But you can't assume that a single factor is the determining factor when there are a bunch of other factors that might not be the same in your situation. The post at the link talks about a child who used a puddle jumper and had no swimming lessons under his belt and then accessed a backyard pool on his own. That's awful but is not a situation my kid has ever or will ever be in.

How many 5 year olds in "swim lessons" still can't swim despite being in a puddle jumper since 2?

How many of you are using a car seat discouraged by most car safety experts? Yeah, didn't think so.

1) I have no idea but my kid learned to swim at 4 despite regularly using a puddle jumper so I don't buy that the puddle jumper somehow prevents learning to swim

2) Totally irrelevant but since you asked my kid was rear-facing until 4.5 and is still in a 5-point harness (high back booster) at almost 7 so your theory that people who use puddle jumpers like to play fast and loose with child safety is incorrect.

You are totally missing the point on puddle jumpers. Its not that they prevent learning to swim. Its that UNTIL your child learns to swim, a puddle jumper teachers them that if they jump in the pool they will float and that the pool is safe and fun. So from the time your child first wore his puddle jumper until he learned to swim, he thought he could float in water. THAT is the dangerous part. Just because it worked out for you doesn't mean it wasn't very risky.

[Anonymous]

I can’t believe all the people who apparently didn’t know the well established risks of puddle jumpers who instead of quietly just exiting the conversation are digging in their heels insisting their use is without potential consequences. Like you don’t even have to admit you didn’t know or were wrong, just don’t comment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can’t believe all the people who apparently didn’t know the well established risks of puddle jumpers who instead of quietly just exiting the conversation are digging in their heels insisting their use is without potential consequences. Like you don’t even have to admit you didn’t know or were wrong, just don’t comment.

+1. We all know there are lazy parents, and even not-lazy parents who do lazy things (like resorting to puddle jumpers which are well.documented.as.dangerous). Don’t broadcast it (and defend it!) on a parenting forum.

[Anonymous]

I have no dog in this fight as we never bought a puddle jumper (ironically more so out of cheapness/laziness) but it seems the "documented dangers" are anecdotal? I mean those stories are terrifying but don't kids who have never had puddle jumpers also drown? How do we know it's the puddle jumper at fault and not the lack of supervision?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have no dog in this fight as we never bought a puddle jumper (ironically more so out of cheapness/laziness) but it seems the "documented dangers" are anecdotal? I mean those stories are terrifying but don't kids who have never had puddle jumpers also drown? How do we know it's the puddle jumper at fault and not the lack of supervision?

It is absolutely lack of supervision and access to poorly secured pools, but it makes people feel better to blame puddle jumpers. I get it-- if my kid fell in a pool and drowned, I would also want to blame the manufacturer of puddle jumpers for tricking me into a "false sense of security" rather than ask myself hard questions about how my child who could not swim wound up in a pool without being in arms reach of an adult.

In the link someone posted up thread, you see this logical leap on clear display. The post rants about how puddle jumpers teach kids to be in the wrong position in the water, how her son likely believed that he would float when he fell in the water. But how did her young son with no water safety skills wind up in a pool on his own? That doesn't just happen. But that's why he died.

Ironically, if he'd been wearing a puddle jumper when he fell in, he might have lived.

If you are always within arms reach of your child in the pool until you know they can safely swim to the side of the pool from the middle without assistance, then there is no added risk from using a puddle jumper.

If you have a backyard pool or use one regularly, you should prioritize making sure your kids can swim as soon as possible and invest heavily in securing the pool. In that situation I would probably eschew puddle jumpers, but that's largely because the risks associated with a backyard pool when you have young kids are extremely high. Most people are not in that situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have no dog in this fight as we never bought a puddle jumper (ironically more so out of cheapness/laziness) but it seems the "documented dangers" are anecdotal? I mean those stories are terrifying but don't kids who have never had puddle jumpers also drown? How do we know it's the puddle jumper at fault and not the lack of supervision?

Yes. Reading along here and thinking about it-where I live unfortunately drownings happen due to the large amount of home pools (FL). In news coverage, it's always the child going out the door unnoticed to the pool area, pool gate left open, distracted adults at a party not watching, ect. Small children unfortunately are attracted to water whether they've ever worn a puddle jumper or not. The issue is an unsecured home pool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no dog in this fight as we never bought a puddle jumper (ironically more so out of cheapness/laziness) but it seems the "documented dangers" are anecdotal? I mean those stories are terrifying but don't kids who have never had puddle jumpers also drown? How do we know it's the puddle jumper at fault and not the lack of supervision?

Yes. Reading along here and thinking about it-where I live unfortunately drownings happen due to the large amount of home pools (FL). In news coverage, it's always the child going out the door unnoticed to the pool area, pool gate left open, distracted adults at a party not watching, ect. Small children unfortunately are attracted to water whether they've ever worn a puddle jumper or not. The issue is an unsecured home pool.

You are not supposed to encourage a child to jump into a pool until they can self rescue. Because if they ever reach a pool unattended, that is what they are going to do. Jump in because it’s fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no dog in this fight as we never bought a puddle jumper (ironically more so out of cheapness/laziness) but it seems the "documented dangers" are anecdotal? I mean those stories are terrifying but don't kids who have never had puddle jumpers also drown? How do we know it's the puddle jumper at fault and not the lack of supervision?

Yes. Reading along here and thinking about it-where I live unfortunately drownings happen due to the large amount of home pools (FL). In news coverage, it's always the child going out the door unnoticed to the pool area, pool gate left open, distracted adults at a party not watching, ect. Small children unfortunately are attracted to water whether they've ever worn a puddle jumper or not. The issue is an unsecured home pool.

You are not supposed to encourage a child to jump into a pool until they can self rescue. Because if they ever reach a pool unattended, that is what they are going to do. Jump in because it’s fun.

Random response to pp, but yes, they shouldn't jump in if they can't swim.

The problem is being unattended, and kids who drown don't always jump in-they often slip silently in. I myself nearly drowned at age 3-I 'slipped' into the pool at my family party. Cousin saw me out of the corner of his eye.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no dog in this fight as we never bought a puddle jumper (ironically more so out of cheapness/laziness) but it seems the "documented dangers" are anecdotal? I mean those stories are terrifying but don't kids who have never had puddle jumpers also drown? How do we know it's the puddle jumper at fault and not the lack of supervision?

Yes. Reading along here and thinking about it-where I live unfortunately drownings happen due to the large amount of home pools (FL). In news coverage, it's always the child going out the door unnoticed to the pool area, pool gate left open, distracted adults at a party not watching, ect. Small children unfortunately are attracted to water whether they've ever worn a puddle jumper or not. The issue is an unsecured home pool.

You are not supposed to encourage a child to jump into a pool until they can self rescue. Because if they ever reach a pool unattended, that is what they are going to do. Jump in because it’s fun.

Random response to pp, but yes, they shouldn't jump in if they can't swim.

The problem is being unattended, and kids who drown don't always jump in-they often slip silently in. I myself nearly drowned at age 3-I 'slipped' into the pool at my family party. Cousin saw me out of the corner of his eye.

Well, the bigger issue is kids drowning at "non swimming" times. Family is at a rented beach house, everyone is having dinner or watching TV and no one has been swimming for hours. Child slips away and no one notices for a couple of minutes but by then its too late. Adults are less vigilant because no one was anywhere near the pool. Kids who are used to bobbing around in life jackets think of the pool as safe and fun, and not as a "no."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no dog in this fight as we never bought a puddle jumper (ironically more so out of cheapness/laziness) but it seems the "documented dangers" are anecdotal? I mean those stories are terrifying but don't kids who have never had puddle jumpers also drown? How do we know it's the puddle jumper at fault and not the lack of supervision?

Yes. Reading along here and thinking about it-where I live unfortunately drownings happen due to the large amount of home pools (FL). In news coverage, it's always the child going out the door unnoticed to the pool area, pool gate left open, distracted adults at a party not watching, ect. Small children unfortunately are attracted to water whether they've ever worn a puddle jumper or not. The issue is an unsecured home pool.

You are not supposed to encourage a child to jump into a pool until they can self rescue. Because if they ever reach a pool unattended, that is what they are going to do. Jump in because it’s fun.

Random response to pp, but yes, they shouldn't jump in if they can't swim.

The problem is being unattended, and kids who drown don't always jump in-they often slip silently in. I myself nearly drowned at age 3-I 'slipped' into the pool at my family party. Cousin saw me out of the corner of his eye.

Well, the bigger issue is kids drowning at "non swimming" times. Family is at a rented beach house, everyone is having dinner or watching TV and no one has been swimming for hours. Child slips away and no one notices for a couple of minutes but by then it's too late. Adults are less vigilant because no one was anywhere near the pool. Kids who are used to bobbing around in life jackets think of the pool as safe and fun, and not as a "no."

Again, the issue there is choosing to rent a house with a pool that cannot be properly secured, and then failing to keep close watch on a young child who cannot swim. The idea that using a life jacket sometimes is the main reason a child in that situation drowns is crazy. The issue lack of supervision combined with an unsecured pool.

Even if you banned all use of puddle jumpers or life vest type flotation devices, kids would continue to drown because a child who has not learned to swim who is able to gain access to a pool without adult supervision will still drown if they wind up in the water even if they have never worn a puddle jumper.

[Anonymous]

Some of the pps are unhinged. Puddle jumpers are fine.

Older child used one and by age 5 was the fastest 6&u swimmer at our club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no dog in this fight as we never bought a puddle jumper (ironically more so out of cheapness/laziness) but it seems the "documented dangers" are anecdotal? I mean those stories are terrifying but don't kids who have never had puddle jumpers also drown? How do we know it's the puddle jumper at fault and not the lack of supervision?

Yes. Reading along here and thinking about it-where I live unfortunately drownings happen due to the large amount of home pools (FL). In news coverage, it's always the child going out the door unnoticed to the pool area, pool gate left open, distracted adults at a party not watching, ect. Small children unfortunately are attracted to water whether they've ever worn a puddle jumper or not. The issue is an unsecured home pool.

You are not supposed to encourage a child to jump into a pool until they can self rescue. Because if they ever reach a pool unattended, that is what they are going to do. Jump in because it’s fun.

Random response to pp, but yes, they shouldn't jump in if they can't swim.

The problem is being unattended, and kids who drown don't always jump in-they often slip silently in. I myself nearly drowned at age 3-I 'slipped' into the pool at my family party. Cousin saw me out of the corner of his eye.

Well, the bigger issue is kids drowning at "non swimming" times. Family is at a rented beach house, everyone is having dinner or watching TV and no one has been swimming for hours. Child slips away and no one notices for a couple of minutes but by then its too late. Adults are less vigilant because no one was anywhere near the pool. Kids who are used to bobbing around in life jackets think of the pool as safe and fun, and not as a "no."

It's nuts to me that throughout this thread, posters who have said they used puddle jumpers with kids who were still learning to swim, always with parental supervision, have been accused of being terrible parents taking an awful risk.

BUT you just described a scenario where a family chose to rent a house with a pool and then lie around watching TV or focusing on dinner and don't pay attention when a young child who does not know how to swim slips out to the pool which is apparently not secured in any way (with a gate or lock or away from the house in its own fenced-in area) and you act like this is a normal thing for a family to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no dog in this fight as we never bought a puddle jumper (ironically more so out of cheapness/laziness) but it seems the "documented dangers" are anecdotal? I mean those stories are terrifying but don't kids who have never had puddle jumpers also drown? How do we know it's the puddle jumper at fault and not the lack of supervision?

Yes. Reading along here and thinking about it-where I live unfortunately drownings happen due to the large amount of home pools (FL). In news coverage, it's always the child going out the door unnoticed to the pool area, pool gate left open, distracted adults at a party not watching, ect. Small children unfortunately are attracted to water whether they've ever worn a puddle jumper or not. The issue is an unsecured home pool.

You are not supposed to encourage a child to jump into a pool until they can self rescue. Because if they ever reach a pool unattended, that is what they are going to do. Jump in because it’s fun.

Why do they encourage jumping early on in swimming lessons before the child can swim at all?