Barnsley CES

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The CES program in general has gone down hill quite a bit since MCPS lowered the standards for admission. Just keep that in mind when you collect info on the experience of others. If their DC attended CES more than a few years ago, their experience isn't all that relevant to today's CES.

This poster is correct. More recently, there are more kids who need ‘support’ and some who, even with supports in place are just unable to keep up.

If you are reasonably happy with your home school, the CES might not be worth it.

MCPS has admitted that it lowered the standards at certain schools and there is definitely a difference in the abilities of students who are in the Barnsley CES now versus about 10 years ago.

Please link to where MCPS “admitted” this or otherwise back up your unsubstantiated statement.

It was at an in-person CES meeting that I attended. There is a different MAP cut off to enter the CES lottery, depending on which school your kid attends and what the ESOL/FARMS percentage is at that ES.

Believe me or not, it makes no difference to me. My kids are out of the CES now, so just sharing my experience with the OP.

Heading a different cutoff is well known. However that does not in any sense equate to lowering the standards of the class. I am not aware that MCPS has done this or “admitted” this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see one addressed to my 3rd grader in USPS informed delivery, but it didn't show up with today's mail. Do they send these out to everyone in the pool or just those who were selected?

I believe the communication goes out to all 3rd graders. We got a notification that my kid didn't meet the criteria to be in the pool, but I'm confused because I double checked all the criteria described and he meets all of them...

Do you know their locally normed map score? I think you can only get it by emailing or calling DCAPPS. At least that’s how was before. If you are at a school with low FARMS it makes a big difference. The local norm only compares to other kids at MCPS schools that are like your school. So your kid could be in the top 15 percent of scores nationwide, but more like the top 25 percent in MCPS schools that are like your school.

Thanks for this question. From what I can tell, the local norm is included on the last MAP report and he's above that (and the requirement is above 85th percentile "or" above local norm). Anyway, I've reached out to see if I can get some clarity on what I'm missing.

No it’s not included. You have no way of knowing what the local norm is without contacting MCPS to see where your kid fits. The national norm is what is on the MAP report and you can only guess where it fits locally. It’s almost certain that your kid didn’t make the cut off. They only mistakes I’ve heard of are when there are missing grades not with MAP scores.

I am perfectly fine with the way that the boundary requirements changed for the CES program. Part of the appeal of Barnsley for me used to be the fact that it is diverse in the true sense of diversity. I do not blame the students. I blame the administration and some (not all) of the teachers. When I talk about enriching experiences, I am not talking about rigorous work; I am talking about field trips and assemblies and celebration of the aforementioned diversity. I’ve seen hardly any of that.

Assemblies come from the PTA. I guess you can blame the parents for that?

I am talking about the opportunity for kids to share what they have been working on (like project based learning) with their parents and families. Not PTA sponsored assemblies. Not promotion ceremonies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see one addressed to my 3rd grader in USPS informed delivery, but it didn't show up with today's mail. Do they send these out to everyone in the pool or just those who were selected?

I believe the communication goes out to all 3rd graders. We got a notification that my kid didn't meet the criteria to be in the pool, but I'm confused because I double checked all the criteria described and he meets all of them...

I just got the notification that my kid didn't meet criteria to be in the pool either, which genuinely surprised me -- straight As, 97 percentile MAP-R, and his teacher raves about him. I don't really give a fig about sending him to a CES program, but I would like for him to get enriched literacy services at his home school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The CES program in general has gone down hill quite a bit since MCPS lowered the standards for admission. Just keep that in mind when you collect info on the experience of others. If their DC attended CES more than a few years ago, their experience isn't all that relevant to today's CES.

This poster is correct. More recently, there are more kids who need ‘support’ and some who, even with supports in place are just unable to keep up.

If you are reasonably happy with your home school, the CES might not be worth it.

MCPS has admitted that it lowered the standards at certain schools and there is definitely a difference in the abilities of students who are in the Barnsley CES now versus about 10 years ago.

Please link to where MCPS “admitted” this or otherwise back up your unsubstantiated statement.

It was at an in-person CES meeting that I attended. There is a different MAP cut off to enter the CES lottery, depending on which school your kid attends and what the ESOL/FARMS percentage is at that ES.

Believe me or not, it makes no difference to me. My kids are out of the CES now, so just sharing my experience with the OP.

Heading a different cutoff is well known. However that does not in any sense equate to lowering the standards of the class. I am not aware that MCPS has done this or “admitted” this.

Of course it equates to lower standards for admission. That’s what happens when you “locally norm” MAP results from high FARMS schools such that kids getting a score in the 70th percentile nationwide are placed in the admissions pool because that score is in the top 85% of local schools. Previously, that score would have been at the bottom of the heap with no chance of admission. Now, the student has as much of a chance to be admitted as the one who scores in the very top 99th percentile. Not saying that’s a bad thing, but you can’t say that the changes didn’t lower the admission criteria and standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The CES program in general has gone down hill quite a bit since MCPS lowered the standards for admission. Just keep that in mind when you collect info on the experience of others. If their DC attended CES more than a few years ago, their experience isn't all that relevant to today's CES.

This poster is correct. More recently, there are more kids who need ‘support’ and some who, even with supports in place are just unable to keep up.

If you are reasonably happy with your home school, the CES might not be worth it.

MCPS has admitted that it lowered the standards at certain schools and there is definitely a difference in the abilities of students who are in the Barnsley CES now versus about 10 years ago.

Please link to where MCPS “admitted” this or otherwise back up your unsubstantiated statement.

It was at an in-person CES meeting that I attended. There is a different MAP cut off to enter the CES lottery, depending on which school your kid attends and what the ESOL/FARMS percentage is at that ES.

Believe me or not, it makes no difference to me. My kids are out of the CES now, so just sharing my experience with the OP.

Heading a different cutoff is well known. However that does not in any sense equate to lowering the standards of the class. I am not aware that MCPS has done this or “admitted” this.

Of course it equates to lower standards for admission. That’s what happens when you “locally norm” MAP results from high FARMS schools such that kids getting a score in the 70th percentile nationwide are placed in the admissions pool because that score is in the top 85% of local schools. Previously, that score would have been at the bottom of the heap with no chance of admission. Now, the student has as much of a chance to be admitted as the one who scores in the very top 99th percentile. Not saying that’s a bad thing, but you can’t say that the changes didn’t lower the admission criteria and standards.

Yep. And ask any CES teacher. They have definitely observed the difference in student abilities with the lower admission criteria. It likely had the intended effect of diversifying the CES, and had an additional effect of changing the CES somewhat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The CES program in general has gone down hill quite a bit since MCPS lowered the standards for admission. Just keep that in mind when you collect info on the experience of others. If their DC attended CES more than a few years ago, their experience isn't all that relevant to today's CES.

This poster is correct. More recently, there are more kids who need ‘support’ and some who, even with supports in place are just unable to keep up.

If you are reasonably happy with your home school, the CES might not be worth it.

MCPS has admitted that it lowered the standards at certain schools and there is definitely a difference in the abilities of students who are in the Barnsley CES now versus about 10 years ago.

Please link to where MCPS “admitted” this or otherwise back up your unsubstantiated statement.

It was at an in-person CES meeting that I attended. There is a different MAP cut off to enter the CES lottery, depending on which school your kid attends and what the ESOL/FARMS percentage is at that ES.

Believe me or not, it makes no difference to me. My kids are out of the CES now, so just sharing my experience with the OP.

Heading a different cutoff is well known. However that does not in any sense equate to lowering the standards of the class. I am not aware that MCPS has done this or “admitted” this.

Of course it equates to lower standards for admission. That’s what happens when you “locally norm” MAP results from high FARMS schools such that kids getting a score in the 70th percentile nationwide are placed in the admissions pool because that score is in the top 85% of local schools. Previously, that score would have been at the bottom of the heap with no chance of admission. Now, the student has as much of a chance to be admitted as the one who scores in the very top 99th percentile. Not saying that’s a bad thing, but you can’t say that the changes didn’t lower the admission criteria and standards.

Read it again. The claim was lowered standards for the CES program, not for admissions. Those are not the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see one addressed to my 3rd grader in USPS informed delivery, but it didn't show up with today's mail. Do they send these out to everyone in the pool or just those who were selected?

I believe the communication goes out to all 3rd graders. We got a notification that my kid didn't meet the criteria to be in the pool, but I'm confused because I double checked all the criteria described and he meets all of them...

I just got the notification that my kid didn't meet criteria to be in the pool either, which genuinely surprised me -- straight As, 97 percentile MAP-R, and his teacher raves about him. I don't really give a fig about sending him to a CES program, but I would like for him to get enriched literacy services at his home school.

Every parent wants enrichment, you child doesn’t qualify. Ask for the localized norm, unfortunately DC isn’t as talented as you thought when compared to similar peers. DC shouldnt have enrichment because they are not ready or qualified.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The CES program in general has gone down hill quite a bit since MCPS lowered the standards for admission. Just keep that in mind when you collect info on the experience of others. If their DC attended CES more than a few years ago, their experience isn't all that relevant to today's CES.

This poster is correct. More recently, there are more kids who need ‘support’ and some who, even with supports in place are just unable to keep up.

If you are reasonably happy with your home school, the CES might not be worth it.

MCPS has admitted that it lowered the standards at certain schools and there is definitely a difference in the abilities of students who are in the Barnsley CES now versus about 10 years ago.

Please link to where MCPS “admitted” this or otherwise back up your unsubstantiated statement.

It was at an in-person CES meeting that I attended. There is a different MAP cut off to enter the CES lottery, depending on which school your kid attends and what the ESOL/FARMS percentage is at that ES.

Believe me or not, it makes no difference to me. My kids are out of the CES now, so just sharing my experience with the OP.

Heading a different cutoff is well known. However that does not in any sense equate to lowering the standards of the class. I am not aware that MCPS has done this or “admitted” this.

Of course it equates to lower standards for admission. That’s what happens when you “locally norm” MAP results from high FARMS schools such that kids getting a score in the 70th percentile nationwide are placed in the admissions pool because that score is in the top 85% of local schools. Previously, that score would have been at the bottom of the heap with no chance of admission. Now, the student has as much of a chance to be admitted as the one who scores in the very top 99th percentile. Not saying that’s a bad thing, but you can’t say that the changes didn’t lower the admission criteria and standards.

Read it again. The claim was lowered standards for the CES program, not for admissions. Those are not the same thing.

The lowered standards for the CES are due to the lowered standards for admissions.

Teachers at Barnsley are now spending more time trying to help some students catch up, because they are not able to complete the work. That means the classes aren’t able to do all the things they were doing before the standards were lowered.

[Anonymous]

My kid got into the lottery with 69th percentile Reading MAP score. We didn’t get a spot at Barnesly, but will get literacy enrichment at our home school.

As soon as my spouse and I saw this we knew the bar was so low people must be tripping on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The CES program in general has gone down hill quite a bit since MCPS lowered the standards for admission. Just keep that in mind when you collect info on the experience of others. If their DC attended CES more than a few years ago, their experience isn't all that relevant to today's CES.

This poster is correct. More recently, there are more kids who need ‘support’ and some who, even with supports in place are just unable to keep up.

If you are reasonably happy with your home school, the CES might not be worth it.

MCPS has admitted that it lowered the standards at certain schools and there is definitely a difference in the abilities of students who are in the Barnsley CES now versus about 10 years ago.

Please link to where MCPS “admitted” this or otherwise back up your unsubstantiated statement.

It was at an in-person CES meeting that I attended. There is a different MAP cut off to enter the CES lottery, depending on which school your kid attends and what the ESOL/FARMS percentage is at that ES.

Believe me or not, it makes no difference to me. My kids are out of the CES now, so just sharing my experience with the OP.

Heading a different cutoff is well known. However that does not in any sense equate to lowering the standards of the class. I am not aware that MCPS has done this or “admitted” this.

Of course it equates to lower standards for admission. That’s what happens when you “locally norm” MAP results from high FARMS schools such that kids getting a score in the 70th percentile nationwide are placed in the admissions pool because that score is in the top 85% of local schools. Previously, that score would have been at the bottom of the heap with no chance of admission. Now, the student has as much of a chance to be admitted as the one who scores in the very top 99th percentile. Not saying that’s a bad thing, but you can’t say that the changes didn’t lower the admission criteria and standards.

Read it again. The claim was lowered standards for the CES program, not for admissions. Those are not the same thing.

The lowered standards for the CES are due to the lowered standards for admissions.

Teachers at Barnsley are now spending more time trying to help some students catch up, because they are not able to complete the work. That means the classes aren’t able to do all the things they were doing before the standards were lowered.

This is the MCPS at glance Report.
Compare 2022-2023 and 2017-2018 (5 years)
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/glance/index.aspx

Things have changed in this 5-10 years. We enjoy the diversity and fortunately my kids have a nice group of friends from K.
However, as others mentioned, the students need more help than enrichment in the classroom.
After school events are not what it used to be because we don't have parent who used to host or plan anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The CES program in general has gone down hill quite a bit since MCPS lowered the standards for admission. Just keep that in mind when you collect info on the experience of others. If their DC attended CES more than a few years ago, their experience isn't all that relevant to today's CES.

This poster is correct. More recently, there are more kids who need ‘support’ and some who, even with supports in place are just unable to keep up.

If you are reasonably happy with your home school, the CES might not be worth it.

MCPS has admitted that it lowered the standards at certain schools and there is definitely a difference in the abilities of students who are in the Barnsley CES now versus about 10 years ago.

Please link to where MCPS “admitted” this or otherwise back up your unsubstantiated statement.

It was at an in-person CES meeting that I attended. There is a different MAP cut off to enter the CES lottery, depending on which school your kid attends and what the ESOL/FARMS percentage is at that ES.

Believe me or not, it makes no difference to me. My kids are out of the CES now, so just sharing my experience with the OP.

Heading a different cutoff is well known. However that does not in any sense equate to lowering the standards of the class. I am not aware that MCPS has done this or “admitted” this.

Of course it equates to lower standards for admission. That’s what happens when you “locally norm” MAP results from high FARMS schools such that kids getting a score in the 70th percentile nationwide are placed in the admissions pool because that score is in the top 85% of local schools. Previously, that score would have been at the bottom of the heap with no chance of admission. Now, the student has as much of a chance to be admitted as the one who scores in the very top 99th percentile. Not saying that’s a bad thing, but you can’t say that the changes didn’t lower the admission criteria and standards.

Read it again. The claim was lowered standards for the CES program, not for admissions. Those are not the same thing.

The lowered standards for the CES are due to the lowered standards for admissions.

Teachers at Barnsley are now spending more time trying to help some students catch up, because they are not able to complete the work. That means the classes aren’t able to do all the things they were doing before the standards were lowered.

You are free to make that claim but MCPS has not “admitted” that standards have been lowered. They certainly weren’t in my kids experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid got into the lottery with 69th percentile Reading MAP score. We didn’t get a spot at Barnesly, but will get literacy enrichment at our home school.

As soon as my spouse and I saw this we knew the bar was so low people must be tripping on it.

What percentile was their previous score? I’m guessing much higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The CES program in general has gone down hill quite a bit since MCPS lowered the standards for admission. Just keep that in mind when you collect info on the experience of others. If their DC attended CES more than a few years ago, their experience isn't all that relevant to today's CES.

This poster is correct. More recently, there are more kids who need ‘support’ and some who, even with supports in place are just unable to keep up.

If you are reasonably happy with your home school, the CES might not be worth it.

MCPS has admitted that it lowered the standards at certain schools and there is definitely a difference in the abilities of students who are in the Barnsley CES now versus about 10 years ago.

Please link to where MCPS “admitted” this or otherwise back up your unsubstantiated statement.

It was at an in-person CES meeting that I attended. There is a different MAP cut off to enter the CES lottery, depending on which school your kid attends and what the ESOL/FARMS percentage is at that ES.

Believe me or not, it makes no difference to me. My kids are out of the CES now, so just sharing my experience with the OP.

Heading a different cutoff is well known. However that does not in any sense equate to lowering the standards of the class. I am not aware that MCPS has done this or “admitted” this.

Of course it equates to lower standards for admission. That’s what happens when you “locally norm” MAP results from high FARMS schools such that kids getting a score in the 70th percentile nationwide are placed in the admissions pool because that score is in the top 85% of local schools. Previously, that score would have been at the bottom of the heap with no chance of admission. Now, the student has as much of a chance to be admitted as the one who scores in the very top 99th percentile. Not saying that’s a bad thing, but you can’t say that the changes didn’t lower the admission criteria and standards.

Read it again. The claim was lowered standards for the CES program, not for admissions. Those are not the same thing.

The lowered standards for the CES are due to the lowered standards for admissions.

Teachers at Barnsley are now spending more time trying to help some students catch up, because they are not able to complete the work. That means the classes aren’t able to do all the things they were doing before the standards were lowered.

You are free to make that claim but MCPS has not “admitted” that standards have been lowered. They certainly weren’t in my kids experience.

When were your kids in the Barnsley CES? Before or after Covid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The CES program in general has gone down hill quite a bit since MCPS lowered the standards for admission. Just keep that in mind when you collect info on the experience of others. If their DC attended CES more than a few years ago, their experience isn't all that relevant to today's CES.

This poster is correct. More recently, there are more kids who need ‘support’ and some who, even with supports in place are just unable to keep up.

If you are reasonably happy with your home school, the CES might not be worth it.

MCPS has admitted that it lowered the standards at certain schools and there is definitely a difference in the abilities of students who are in the Barnsley CES now versus about 10 years ago.

Please link to where MCPS “admitted” this or otherwise back up your unsubstantiated statement.

It was at an in-person CES meeting that I attended. There is a different MAP cut off to enter the CES lottery, depending on which school your kid attends and what the ESOL/FARMS percentage is at that ES.

Believe me or not, it makes no difference to me. My kids are out of the CES now, so just sharing my experience with the OP.

Heading a different cutoff is well known. However that does not in any sense equate to lowering the standards of the class. I am not aware that MCPS has done this or “admitted” this.

Of course it equates to lower standards for admission. That’s what happens when you “locally norm” MAP results from high FARMS schools such that kids getting a score in the 70th percentile nationwide are placed in the admissions pool because that score is in the top 85% of local schools. Previously, that score would have been at the bottom of the heap with no chance of admission. Now, the student has as much of a chance to be admitted as the one who scores in the very top 99th percentile. Not saying that’s a bad thing, but you can’t say that the changes didn’t lower the admission criteria and standards.

Read it again. The claim was lowered standards for the CES program, not for admissions. Those are not the same thing.

The lowered standards for the CES are due to the lowered standards for admissions.

Teachers at Barnsley are now spending more time trying to help some students catch up, because they are not able to complete the work. That means the classes aren’t able to do all the things they were doing before the standards were lowered.

You are free to make that claim but MCPS has not “admitted” that standards have been lowered. They certainly weren’t in my kids experience.

When were your kids in the Barnsley CES? Before or after Covid?

After. A different CES though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The CES program in general has gone down hill quite a bit since MCPS lowered the standards for admission. Just keep that in mind when you collect info on the experience of others. If their DC attended CES more than a few years ago, their experience isn't all that relevant to today's CES.

This poster is correct. More recently, there are more kids who need ‘support’ and some who, even with supports in place are just unable to keep up.

If you are reasonably happy with your home school, the CES might not be worth it.

MCPS has admitted that it lowered the standards at certain schools and there is definitely a difference in the abilities of students who are in the Barnsley CES now versus about 10 years ago.

Please link to where MCPS “admitted” this or otherwise back up your unsubstantiated statement.

It was at an in-person CES meeting that I attended. There is a different MAP cut off to enter the CES lottery, depending on which school your kid attends and what the ESOL/FARMS percentage is at that ES.

Believe me or not, it makes no difference to me. My kids are out of the CES now, so just sharing my experience with the OP.

Heading a different cutoff is well known. However that does not in any sense equate to lowering the standards of the class. I am not aware that MCPS has done this or “admitted” this.

Of course it equates to lower standards for admission. That’s what happens when you “locally norm” MAP results from high FARMS schools such that kids getting a score in the 70th percentile nationwide are placed in the admissions pool because that score is in the top 85% of local schools. Previously, that score would have been at the bottom of the heap with no chance of admission. Now, the student has as much of a chance to be admitted as the one who scores in the very top 99th percentile. Not saying that’s a bad thing, but you can’t say that the changes didn’t lower the admission criteria and standards.

Read it again. The claim was lowered standards for the CES program, not for admissions. Those are not the same thing.

The lowered standards for the CES are due to the lowered standards for admissions.

Teachers at Barnsley are now spending more time trying to help some students catch up, because they are not able to complete the work. That means the classes aren’t able to do all the things they were doing before the standards were lowered.

You are free to make that claim but MCPS has not “admitted” that standards have been lowered. They certainly weren’t in my kids experience.

When were your kids in the Barnsley CES? Before or after Covid?

After. A different CES though.

Then your kid’s experience may have been much different. Barnsley CES changed quite a bit after they changed which ESs it draws from.