APS 6th grade pre algebra

[Anonymous]

My kid was in 6th in the 2019-20 school year taking the accelerated 6-7-8 class (this is the class that scrunches three years into one to get ready for Algebra). Then Algebra I intensified was online the next year.

This didn't go well at all. The teachers had to try to teach the missed last quarter of 6-7-8 during algebra and then every other class got behind.

It's very hard to tease out what was pandemic-caused vs poor placement decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid was in 6th in the 2019-20 school year taking the accelerated 6-7-8 class (this is the class that scrunches three years into one to get ready for Algebra). Then Algebra I intensified was online the next year.

This didn't go well at all. The teachers had to try to teach the missed last quarter of 6-7-8 during algebra and then every other class got behind.

It's very hard to tease out what was pandemic-caused vs poor placement decisions.

But the kids who took 6/7/8 before 19-20 had their compacted year before the pandemic. The current 11th & 12th graders.

Anyway, the more advanced mathy kids still make the cut even with the higher standards - these are the kids who truly need the extra acceleration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid was in 6th in the 2019-20 school year taking the accelerated 6-7-8 class (this is the class that scrunches three years into one to get ready for Algebra). Then Algebra I intensified was online the next year.

This didn't go well at all. The teachers had to try to teach the missed last quarter of 6-7-8 during algebra and then every other class got behind.

It's very hard to tease out what was pandemic-caused vs poor placement decisions.

But the kids who took 6/7/8 before 19-20 had their compacted year before the pandemic. The current 11th & 12th graders.

Anyway, the more advanced mathy kids still make the cut even with the higher standards - these are the kids who truly need the extra acceleration.

Current 11th and 12th graders were taking a combination of Algebra 1, Geometry, and Algebra 2 during the virtual years. These courses are the foundation for the advanced classes they are now taking and instruction was unavoidably impaired during virtual learning. These students are having to backfill content while in their advanced courses that was skipped or covered cursorily during virtual learning. Covid had a significant impact on current 11th and 12th graders too.

As to your second point, students that meet nationally accepted definitions of acceleration readiness should be allowed to accelerate. They should not have to surmount artificially inflated thresholds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, they base math placement completely on test scores (& the cut-offs have changed multiple times over the years). They say they talk to the 5th grade math teacher, but I’m skeptical.
Just know that APS policy is that you CAN parent place, but they will not tell you this explicitly. We had to fight to get my kid into algebra in 7th (test scores weren’t quite what they wanted), and it went well. Kid is currently doing well in algebra II in 9th.
I don’t think extra math classes are necessary, but you could review some things with your child this summer if you’re concerned.

To what extent does parent placing apply? I assume you can't parent place a 1st grader into prealgebra. Also if parent placing is policy, why did you have to fight to get your kid into 7th grade algebra?

Because I didn’t find out until after the fact that parent placement is the policy, and they initially just told us no. Then they agreed to reconsider after fall math testing (kid started in pre-algebra). After that, they moved him to algebra, where he had to make up a month’s worth of work in a short time, but it was well worth it.

I assume parent placement applies to classes open to kids in that grade, not a first grader taking pre-algebra.

I'm confused - if parent placement is the policy, why did they tell you "no" when you asked to place him into algebra? If you had know earlie, what would you have said / done differently to get hem to say "yes" instead?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid was in 6th in the 2019-20 school year taking the accelerated 6-7-8 class (this is the class that scrunches three years into one to get ready for Algebra). Then Algebra I intensified was online the next year.

This didn't go well at all. The teachers had to try to teach the missed last quarter of 6-7-8 during algebra and then every other class got behind.

It's very hard to tease out what was pandemic-caused vs poor placement decisions.

But the kids who took 6/7/8 before 19-20 had their compacted year before the pandemic. The current 11th & 12th graders.

Anyway, the more advanced mathy kids still make the cut even with the higher standards - these are the kids who truly need the extra acceleration.

Current 11th and 12th graders were taking a combination of Algebra 1, Geometry, and Algebra 2 during the virtual years. These courses are the foundation for the advanced classes they are now taking and instruction was unavoidably impaired during virtual learning. These students are having to backfill content while in their advanced courses that was skipped or covered cursorily during virtual learning. Covid had a significant impact on current 11th and 12th graders too.

As to your second point, students that meet nationally accepted definitions of acceleration readiness should be allowed to accelerate. They should not have to surmount artificially inflated thresholds.

A single data point isn’t sufficient determination for acceleration.

Those kids who were appropriately accelerated are doing well now. The pandemic revealed the downsides of accelerating kids who could use more time on the fundamentals. There is no downside for slowing down acceleration for the non-mathy kids. Not every bright kid needs to be multiple years ahead in math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, they base math placement completely on test scores (& the cut-offs have changed multiple times over the years). They say they talk to the 5th grade math teacher, but I’m skeptical.
Just know that APS policy is that you CAN parent place, but they will not tell you this explicitly. We had to fight to get my kid into algebra in 7th (test scores weren’t quite what they wanted), and it went well. Kid is currently doing well in algebra II in 9th.
I don’t think extra math classes are necessary, but you could review some things with your child this summer if you’re concerned.

+1. My kid did not place, so I placed her with some pushback. She loves math, has loved her teachers, and has excelled, so it was the right choice. For my other kid, I followed the school's lower placement, and it was absolutely the right choice. You know your kid best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid was in 6th in the 2019-20 school year taking the accelerated 6-7-8 class (this is the class that scrunches three years into one to get ready for Algebra). Then Algebra I intensified was online the next year.

This didn't go well at all. The teachers had to try to teach the missed last quarter of 6-7-8 during algebra and then every other class got behind.

It's very hard to tease out what was pandemic-caused vs poor placement decisions.

But the kids who took 6/7/8 before 19-20 had their compacted year before the pandemic. The current 11th & 12th graders.

Anyway, the more advanced mathy kids still make the cut even with the higher standards - these are the kids who truly need the extra acceleration.

Current 11th and 12th graders were taking a combination of Algebra 1, Geometry, and Algebra 2 during the virtual years. These courses are the foundation for the advanced classes they are now taking and instruction was unavoidably impaired during virtual learning. These students are having to backfill content while in their advanced courses that was skipped or covered cursorily during virtual learning. Covid had a significant impact on current 11th and 12th graders too.

As to your second point, students that meet nationally accepted definitions of acceleration readiness should be allowed to accelerate. They should not have to surmount artificially inflated thresholds.

A single data point isn’t sufficient determination for acceleration.

Those kids who were appropriately accelerated are doing well now. The pandemic revealed the downsides of accelerating kids who could use more time on the fundamentals. There is no downside for slowing down acceleration for the non-mathy kids. Not every bright kid needs to be multiple years ahead in math.

Pass advanced SOL and a math skill measure (whether MI, IAAT, or other) are the standards for assessing acceleration readiness in NoVa and elsewhere. Test scores are objective measures of readiness.

No. The pandemic revealed how poorly virtual learning served students which is why so many students developed a weaker math foundation that they would have in non-pandemic times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, they base math placement completely on test scores (& the cut-offs have changed multiple times over the years). They say they talk to the 5th grade math teacher, but I’m skeptical.
Just know that APS policy is that you CAN parent place, but they will not tell you this explicitly. We had to fight to get my kid into algebra in 7th (test scores weren’t quite what they wanted), and it went well. Kid is currently doing well in algebra II in 9th.
I don’t think extra math classes are necessary, but you could review some things with your child this summer if you’re concerned.

+1. My kid did not place, so I placed her with some pushback. She loves math, has loved her teachers, and has excelled, so it was the right choice. For my other kid, I followed the school's lower placement, and it was absolutely the right choice. You know your kid best.

You sound like you get it. The problem of course is that this isn’t the majority of parent placements. Parents, particularly for the child who is oldest siblings or is an only child, have zero perspective and cannot accept that their child shouldn’t be “with all the other smart kids.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, they base math placement completely on test scores (& the cut-offs have changed multiple times over the years). They say they talk to the 5th grade math teacher, but I’m skeptical.
Just know that APS policy is that you CAN parent place, but they will not tell you this explicitly. We had to fight to get my kid into algebra in 7th (test scores weren’t quite what they wanted), and it went well. Kid is currently doing well in algebra II in 9th.
I don’t think extra math classes are necessary, but you could review some things with your child this summer if you’re concerned.

To what extent does parent placing apply? I assume you can't parent place a 1st grader into prealgebra. Also if parent placing is policy, why did you have to fight to get your kid into 7th grade algebra?

Because I didn’t find out until after the fact that parent placement is the policy, and they initially just told us no. Then they agreed to reconsider after fall math testing (kid started in pre-algebra). After that, they moved him to algebra, where he had to make up a month’s worth of work in a short time, but it was well worth it.

I assume parent placement applies to classes open to kids in that grade, not a first grader taking pre-algebra.

I'm confused - if parent placement is the policy, why did they tell you "no" when you asked to place him into algebra? If you had know earlie, what would you have said / done differently to get hem to say "yes" instead?

I assume because they don’t want parents to know it’s the policy, so they can discourage parent placement? I don’t know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, they base math placement completely on test scores (& the cut-offs have changed multiple times over the years). They say they talk to the 5th grade math teacher, but I’m skeptical.
Just know that APS policy is that you CAN parent place, but they will not tell you this explicitly. We had to fight to get my kid into algebra in 7th (test scores weren’t quite what they wanted), and it went well. Kid is currently doing well in algebra II in 9th.
I don’t think extra math classes are necessary, but you could review some things with your child this summer if you’re concerned.

To what extent does parent placing apply? I assume you can't parent place a 1st grader into prealgebra. Also if parent placing is policy, why did you have to fight to get your kid into 7th grade algebra?

Because I didn’t find out until after the fact that parent placement is the policy, and they initially just told us no. Then they agreed to reconsider after fall math testing (kid started in pre-algebra). After that, they moved him to algebra, where he had to make up a month’s worth of work in a short time, but it was well worth it.

I assume parent placement applies to classes open to kids in that grade, not a first grader taking pre-algebra.

I'm confused - if parent placement is the policy, why did they tell you "no" when you asked to place him into algebra? If you had know earlie, what would you have said / done differently to get hem to say "yes" instead?

I assume because they don’t want parents to know it’s the policy, so they can discourage parent placement? I don’t know.

Me again… if I had known, I would have quoted their policy to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, they base math placement completely on test scores (& the cut-offs have changed multiple times over the years). They say they talk to the 5th grade math teacher, but I’m skeptical.
Just know that APS policy is that you CAN parent place, but they will not tell you this explicitly. We had to fight to get my kid into algebra in 7th (test scores weren’t quite what they wanted), and it went well. Kid is currently doing well in algebra II in 9th.
I don’t think extra math classes are necessary, but you could review some things with your child this summer if you’re concerned.

To what extent does parent placing apply? I assume you can't parent place a 1st grader into prealgebra. Also if parent placing is policy, why did you have to fight to get your kid into 7th grade algebra?

Because I didn’t find out until after the fact that parent placement is the policy, and they initially just told us no. Then they agreed to reconsider after fall math testing (kid started in pre-algebra). After that, they moved him to algebra, where he had to make up a month’s worth of work in a short time, but it was well worth it.

I assume parent placement applies to classes open to kids in that grade, not a first grader taking pre-algebra.

I'm confused - if parent placement is the policy, why did they tell you "no" when you asked to place him into algebra? If you had know earlie, what would you have said / done differently to get hem to say "yes" instead?

I assume because they don’t want parents to know it’s the policy, so they can discourage parent placement? I don’t know.

Me again… if I had known, I would have quoted their policy to them.

Can you help me find the relevant policy? It's not here: https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Admissions-Final.pdf

https://www.acsk-12.org/cms/lib/TN50010874/Centricity/Domain/11/AHS%20Program%20of%20Studies.pdf - this mentions overrides, but it's for the high school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, they base math placement completely on test scores (& the cut-offs have changed multiple times over the years). They say they talk to the 5th grade math teacher, but I’m skeptical.
Just know that APS policy is that you CAN parent place, but they will not tell you this explicitly. We had to fight to get my kid into algebra in 7th (test scores weren’t quite what they wanted), and it went well. Kid is currently doing well in algebra II in 9th.
I don’t think extra math classes are necessary, but you could review some things with your child this summer if you’re concerned.

To what extent does parent placing apply? I assume you can't parent place a 1st grader into prealgebra. Also if parent placing is policy, why did you have to fight to get your kid into 7th grade algebra?

Because I didn’t find out until after the fact that parent placement is the policy, and they initially just told us no. Then they agreed to reconsider after fall math testing (kid started in pre-algebra). After that, they moved him to algebra, where he had to make up a month’s worth of work in a short time, but it was well worth it.

I assume parent placement applies to classes open to kids in that grade, not a first grader taking pre-algebra.

I'm confused - if parent placement is the policy, why did they tell you "no" when you asked to place him into algebra? If you had know earlie, what would you have said / done differently to get hem to say "yes" instead?

I assume because they don’t want parents to know it’s the policy, so they can discourage parent placement? I don’t know.

Me again… if I had known, I would have quoted their policy to them.

Can you help me find the relevant policy? It's not here: https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Admissions-Final.pdf

https://www.acsk-12.org/cms/lib/TN50010874/Centricity/Domain/11/AHS%20Program%20of%20Studies.pdf - this mentions overrides, but it's for the high school

The secret with APS is that if you’re persistent you can get whatever you want, PIP or not.

[Anonymous]

Shouldn't be too hard to look back over many years of acceleration and see the results for these students, broken down by the performance on entrance tests to this pathway, SOL, MAP, COGAT, grades, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Shouldn't be too hard to look back over many years of acceleration and see the results for these students, broken down by the performance on entrance tests to this pathway, SOL, MAP, COGAT, grades, etc.

SOL data is public. The 7th grade accelerated cohort has much stronger SOL performance in Algebra 1, Geometry, and Algebra 2 than the 8th or 9th grade Algebra 1 cohorts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, they base math placement completely on test scores (& the cut-offs have changed multiple times over the years). They say they talk to the 5th grade math teacher, but I’m skeptical.
Just know that APS policy is that you CAN parent place, but they will not tell you this explicitly. We had to fight to get my kid into algebra in 7th (test scores weren’t quite what they wanted), and it went well. Kid is currently doing well in algebra II in 9th.
I don’t think extra math classes are necessary, but you could review some things with your child this summer if you’re concerned.

To what extent does parent placing apply? I assume you can't parent place a 1st grader into prealgebra. Also if parent placing is policy, why did you have to fight to get your kid into 7th grade algebra?

Because I didn’t find out until after the fact that parent placement is the policy, and they initially just told us no. Then they agreed to reconsider after fall math testing (kid started in pre-algebra). After that, they moved him to algebra, where he had to make up a month’s worth of work in a short time, but it was well worth it.

I assume parent placement applies to classes open to kids in that grade, not a first grader taking pre-algebra.

I'm confused - if parent placement is the policy, why did they tell you "no" when you asked to place him into algebra? If you had know earlie, what would you have said / done differently to get hem to say "yes" instead?

I assume because they don’t want parents to know it’s the policy, so they can discourage parent placement? I don’t know.

I don't think it is 100% guaranteed. I know people who tried to parent place and were refused. I think its a case by case basis.