Water engineer for basement water issues

[Anonymous]

Of course the best way to waterproof any below-grade assembly is from the exterior or the positive side — but what if you have to work from the interior or the negative side?

https://www.waterproofmag.com/2018/04/dos-and-donts-of-basement-drainage/

If you do interior it has to be done perfectly and you have to keep it clean and operating perfectly. But I can’t get over the fact that the water is still freely getting into your structure it’s just being whisked away after it’s gone through your walls or foundation. In fact you’re drawing it in and into the drain actively through the action of the sump pump.

You should consider increased moisture and humidity that is likely from the interior solution. It’s not clear to me how installing weep holes into your wall which then drain into the interior drain which then drains into a sump pump, even if perfect, prevents mold? The interior solution doesn’t stop the water ok the outside of your walls; it drains it into an interior channel. So 🤔

It strikes me as an idea we might come to regret; like the spray foam or EIFS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:JES are complete scam artists. Do not use them and believe the horrible reviews online. Call Mer Waterproofing in Lorton. They used to be Mer/Morrison and have been around since the 70s. They are old school pen and paper but they will get it done. If they can't, no one can.

It's a data point of one but, I had a very good experience with JES. It probably comes down to who you get but our inspector was not pushy at all and we went with them even though they were not the cheapest. Basement has been bone dry ever since and that was 6 years ago. They also give a life-time transferable warranty which is important to us as we do plan to sell in a few years when the last kid is done with college. I don't want the next owners dealing with the water issues that we struggled with.

Interior drain? Do you have mice, crickets or bugs? Genuine question

The interior drain is under the floor slab. I think mice, crickets and bugs (aren’t crickets bugs?) are perfectly happy coming in through doors, windows and holes. They can’t burrow under your house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The basement waterproofing business is full of charlatans. You don't want anyone who does a lot of marketing, if they wear a uniform or drive a truck with fancy logos steer clear.

The problem is that rainwater is running down the foundation and finding cracks to get in. The solution is first to keep that water away from the foundation in the first place, and then to give it a place to go where it can be disposed of safely. The exact details depend upon the site and how it was built. But if someone starts talking about "groundwater" or "water table" or similar mumbo-jumbo, cross them off your list.

Avoid interior perimeter solutions at all cost if you at all can. Go for external dig out and repair and slab repair. If you think about it interior sump pump and interior perimeter is making your walls into a water conduit. You don’t want water to come near or into your walls in the first place.

Not to mention pests, mice, crickets (black indoor ones). You’ll never get rid of these again. Pick your company on whether they’ll attempt exterior solution as the priority one.

It's rare that a house will be a good candidate for an external drain. It involves excavating all the way down to the foundation footings all around the house. If there are stoops, porches, decks, HVAC equipment, walkways, or anything else, it would have to be removed or demo'd. Then that dirt has to be piled well away from the house if there is room. Then the old clogged drain tile is replaced and the walls treated with a waterproof membrane. It's not even a possible solution for most houses or in most neighborhoods. Almost all water management solutions will be interior drains, tied to a sump pump, if not two. Because it works, is not anywhere near as disruptive or expensive as exterior drainage. I know you are that one holdout who still insists on doing that way but I'm sorry to let you know, we drive cars now and have smart phones. Times have changed. Try to keep up.

That’s ridiculous; it’s just harder and more expensive and a lower profit margin for the company. It can be done including where hard scape patios abut the house. It takes 2-4 days and is hard work, often done by hand, but you done have interior sump pumps, perimeter holes all inside, radon risks, pests, and just generally mold - the inside all dry but where’s the water coming from into your interior drains: your walls, floor etc.

Well if you are not stopping the water from getting into your walls and are instead draining it through them to the interior, your interior might be dry, but what do you think is the state of your walls? Not to mention the unseemly white plastic and trench all around your rooms etc.

Respectfully, what you’re saying makes no sense. Whether the drain is outside the wall or under the floor doesnt affect the walls. It’s just about where you can more easily access to place the drain. The drain itself is just shifting a few feet laterally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Of course the best way to waterproof any below-grade assembly is from the exterior or the positive side — but what if you have to work from the interior or the negative side?

https://www.waterproofmag.com/2018/04/dos-and-donts-of-basement-drainage/

If you do interior it has to be done perfectly and you have to keep it clean and operating perfectly. But I can’t get over the fact that the water is still freely getting into your structure it’s just being whisked away after it’s gone through your walls or foundation. In fact you’re drawing it in and into the drain actively through the action of the sump pump.

You should consider increased moisture and humidity that is likely from the interior solution. It’s not clear to me how installing weep holes into your wall which then drain into the interior drain which then drains into a sump pump, even if perfect, prevents mold? The interior solution doesn’t stop the water ok the outside of your walls; it drains it into an interior channel. So 🤔

It strikes me as an idea we might come to regret; like the spray foam or EIFS

Fwiw, other posters, I have interior drains and what this guy is saying makes no sense. They’re under the floor. They work the same way as external drains as far as the walls. Exterior drains don’t “stop water” in a different way than interior drains. They’re not inside your house, they’re just inside the walls, horizontally.

[Anonymous]

We also used desert dry for a sump pump and have no issues since

Ask for don. He has been around forever and has seen everything

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:JES are complete scam artists. Do not use them and believe the horrible reviews online. Call Mer Waterproofing in Lorton. They used to be Mer/Morrison and have been around since the 70s. They are old school pen and paper but they will get it done. If they can't, no one can.

It's a data point of one but, I had a very good experience with JES. It probably comes down to who you get but our inspector was not pushy at all and we went with them even though they were not the cheapest. Basement has been bone dry ever since and that was 6 years ago. They also give a life-time transferable warranty which is important to us as we do plan to sell in a few years when the last kid is done with college. I don't want the next owners dealing with the water issues that we struggled with.

Interior drain? Do you have mice, crickets or bugs? Genuine question

The interior drain is under the floor slab. I think mice, crickets and bugs (aren’t crickets bugs?) are perfectly happy coming in through doors, windows and holes. They can’t burrow under your house.

And yet! Have you been to DC houses with interior drains? Ha!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course the best way to waterproof any below-grade assembly is from the exterior or the positive side — but what if you have to work from the interior or the negative side?

https://www.waterproofmag.com/2018/04/dos-and-donts-of-basement-drainage/

If you do interior it has to be done perfectly and you have to keep it clean and operating perfectly. But I can’t get over the fact that the water is still freely getting into your structure it’s just being whisked away after it’s gone through your walls or foundation. In fact you’re drawing it in and into the drain actively through the action of the sump pump.

You should consider increased moisture and humidity that is likely from the interior solution. It’s not clear to me how installing weep holes into your wall which then drain into the interior drain which then drains into a sump pump, even if perfect, prevents mold? The interior solution doesn’t stop the water ok the outside of your walls; it drains it into an interior channel. So 🤔

It strikes me as an idea we might come to regret; like the spray foam or EIFS

Fwiw, other posters, I have interior drains and what this guy is saying makes no sense. They’re under the floor. They work the same way as external drains as far as the walls. Exterior drains don’t “stop water” in a different way than interior drains. They’re not inside your house, they’re just inside the walls, horizontally.

What?! You have water coming in from the sides or under, right? So now I’m not going to do anything at all to fix that on the exterior. The water is still coming.

Now I do the interior drain. That involves drilling weep holes in the bottom of the walls which drain behind the interior perimeter assembly and into your interior drain. The water is still coming through the side walls and under but is getting suctioned away through the interior drain and into the sump pump. My space is dry. If I’m smart I’m using a dehumidifier because all that water (now enhanced flow due to pressure differential with the sump pump) is still in my walls or under my slab or in my crawlspace.

Still with me? How is that a better idea for the homeowner than exterior drain solution other than being a bit cheaper? It is better for the company: easier, quicker, less work.

[Anonymous]

From one of the installers: “Interior drainage systems work by collecting water from where the floor and wall meet. Subsequently, they also collect water from the walls themselves. This prevents it from draining to the center of the basement floor where it could pool and cause lasting damage. Interior drains work with Sump Pumps to effectively keep basements dry and protected from damage.”

How is that a good idea? If all the alternatives have been exhausted, sure, but as your preferred solution?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course the best way to waterproof any below-grade assembly is from the exterior or the positive side — but what if you have to work from the interior or the negative side?

https://www.waterproofmag.com/2018/04/dos-and-donts-of-basement-drainage/

If you do interior it has to be done perfectly and you have to keep it clean and operating perfectly. But I can’t get over the fact that the water is still freely getting into your structure it’s just being whisked away after it’s gone through your walls or foundation. In fact you’re drawing it in and into the drain actively through the action of the sump pump.

You should consider increased moisture and humidity that is likely from the interior solution. It’s not clear to me how installing weep holes into your wall which then drain into the interior drain which then drains into a sump pump, even if perfect, prevents mold? The interior solution doesn’t stop the water ok the outside of your walls; it drains it into an interior channel. So 🤔

It strikes me as an idea we might come to regret; like the spray foam or EIFS

Fwiw, other posters, I have interior drains and what this guy is saying makes no sense. They’re under the floor. They work the same way as external drains as far as the walls. Exterior drains don’t “stop water” in a different way than interior drains. They’re not inside your house, they’re just inside the walls, horizontally.

What?! You have water coming in from the sides or under, right? So now I’m not going to do anything at all to fix that on the exterior. The water is still coming.

Now I do the interior drain. That involves drilling weep holes in the bottom of the walls which drain behind the interior perimeter assembly and into your interior drain. The water is still coming through the side walls and under but is getting suctioned away through the interior drain and into the sump pump. My space is dry. If I’m smart I’m using a dehumidifier because all that water (now enhanced flow due to pressure differential with the sump pump) is still in my walls or under my slab or in my crawlspace.

Still with me? How is that a better idea for the homeowner than exterior drain solution other than being a bit cheaper? It is better for the company: easier, quicker, less work.

Now there’s a drain under my floor slab. Before there was wet dirt. I don’t see the difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course the best way to waterproof any below-grade assembly is from the exterior or the positive side — but what if you have to work from the interior or the negative side?

https://www.waterproofmag.com/2018/04/dos-and-donts-of-basement-drainage/

If you do interior it has to be done perfectly and you have to keep it clean and operating perfectly. But I can’t get over the fact that the water is still freely getting into your structure it’s just being whisked away after it’s gone through your walls or foundation. In fact you’re drawing it in and into the drain actively through the action of the sump pump.

You should consider increased moisture and humidity that is likely from the interior solution. It’s not clear to me how installing weep holes into your wall which then drain into the interior drain which then drains into a sump pump, even if perfect, prevents mold? The interior solution doesn’t stop the water ok the outside of your walls; it drains it into an interior channel. So 🤔

It strikes me as an idea we might come to regret; like the spray foam or EIFS

Fwiw, other posters, I have interior drains and what this guy is saying makes no sense. They’re under the floor. They work the same way as external drains as far as the walls. Exterior drains don’t “stop water” in a different way than interior drains. They’re not inside your house, they’re just inside the walls, horizontally.

What?! You have water coming in from the sides or under, right? So now I’m not going to do anything at all to fix that on the exterior. The water is still coming.

Now I do the interior drain. That involves drilling weep holes in the bottom of the walls which drain behind the interior perimeter assembly and into your interior drain. The water is still coming through the side walls and under but is getting suctioned away through the interior drain and into the sump pump. My space is dry. If I’m smart I’m using a dehumidifier because all that water (now enhanced flow due to pressure differential with the sump pump) is still in my walls or under my slab or in my crawlspace.

Still with me? How is that a better idea for the homeowner than exterior drain solution other than being a bit cheaper? It is better for the company: easier, quicker, less work.

Suction? Are you high?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The basement waterproofing business is full of charlatans. You don't want anyone who does a lot of marketing, if they wear a uniform or drive a truck with fancy logos steer clear.

The problem is that rainwater is running down the foundation and finding cracks to get in. The solution is first to keep that water away from the foundation in the first place, and then to give it a place to go where it can be disposed of safely. The exact details depend upon the site and how it was built. But if someone starts talking about "groundwater" or "water table" or similar mumbo-jumbo, cross them off your list.

Avoid interior perimeter solutions at all cost if you at all can. Go for external dig out and repair and slab repair. If you think about it interior sump pump and interior perimeter is making your walls into a water conduit. You don’t want water to come near or into your walls in the first place.

Not to mention pests, mice, crickets (black indoor ones). You’ll never get rid of these again. Pick your company on whether they’ll attempt exterior solution as the priority one.

Avoid anyone who proposes excavating anything until all possibilities of handling runoff on the surface have been exhausted.

It's not a question of internal or external, it's a question of whether you need to dig at all.

This is fine but for the houses I’ve lived in in Maryland, I don’t think you can have a dry basement without functional perimeter drains. If your house is of the age where the original ones have failed, you can play with downspouts all you like and it may not solve the problem.

I have a 60some year old house in MoCo. We've had no water issues in our basement since we managed the surface flow shortly after purchasing almost 30 years ago, and doubling the size of the house 15 years ago.

Ground water isn't really an issue for us as we're on the side of hill. Location, location, location. I'd think twice before buying bottom land in the piedmont.

If you doubled the size of the house 15 years ago, those are new drains? I don’t understand what you mean.

We had a small bit of water getting into the basement during rain when we moved in 30 years ago, quickly fixed with improved downspout draining and a bit of sculpting of the yard. 15 years ago, we popped the top and bumped basement out a bit. We did usual construction on the foundation bump, but nothing to the original foundation - just continued careful surface flow management. We still have no water getting in.

Do you have reason to believe the original drains aren’t functioning?

What original drains? There was no evidence of anything beyond some gravel when we dug out the foundation for the bump.

Okay well I’m not an expert but I think all houses with basements would have had clay “tiles” or something like that depending on when they were built, so possibly you’re not an expert about this either.

Failed attempt at sarcasm. The original drains were long since silted up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course the best way to waterproof any below-grade assembly is from the exterior or the positive side — but what if you have to work from the interior or the negative side?

https://www.waterproofmag.com/2018/04/dos-and-donts-of-basement-drainage/

If you do interior it has to be done perfectly and you have to keep it clean and operating perfectly. But I can’t get over the fact that the water is still freely getting into your structure it’s just being whisked away after it’s gone through your walls or foundation. In fact you’re drawing it in and into the drain actively through the action of the sump pump.

You should consider increased moisture and humidity that is likely from the interior solution. It’s not clear to me how installing weep holes into your wall which then drain into the interior drain which then drains into a sump pump, even if perfect, prevents mold? The interior solution doesn’t stop the water ok the outside of your walls; it drains it into an interior channel. So 🤔

It strikes me as an idea we might come to regret; like the spray foam or EIFS

Fwiw, other posters, I have interior drains and what this guy is saying makes no sense. They’re under the floor. They work the same way as external drains as far as the walls. Exterior drains don’t “stop water” in a different way than interior drains. They’re not inside your house, they’re just inside the walls, horizontally.

What?! You have water coming in from the sides or under, right? So now I’m not going to do anything at all to fix that on the exterior. The water is still coming.

Now I do the interior drain. That involves drilling weep holes in the bottom of the walls which drain behind the interior perimeter assembly and into your interior drain. The water is still coming through the side walls and under but is getting suctioned away through the interior drain and into the sump pump. My space is dry. If I’m smart I’m using a dehumidifier because all that water (now enhanced flow due to pressure differential with the sump pump) is still in my walls or under my slab or in my crawlspace.

Still with me? How is that a better idea for the homeowner than exterior drain solution other than being a bit cheaper? It is better for the company: easier, quicker, less work.

Now there’s a drain under my floor slab. Before there was wet dirt. I don’t see the difference.

You don’t “see” the difference. But if you had water in your walls before, you still have the water in your walls. So maybe check for mold spores in your air? Or in your wall? Just a thought

[Anonymous]

Sounds like a lot of foundation/remediation contractors drumming up business in this discussion.

[Anonymous]

It’s nearly impossible to find companies that do exterior drainage. That’s because interior is cheaper quicker and more profitable but it’s not better for the homeowner

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The basement waterproofing business is full of charlatans. You don't want anyone who does a lot of marketing, if they wear a uniform or drive a truck with fancy logos steer clear.

The problem is that rainwater is running down the foundation and finding cracks to get in. The solution is first to keep that water away from the foundation in the first place, and then to give it a place to go where it can be disposed of safely. The exact details depend upon the site and how it was built. But if someone starts talking about "groundwater" or "water table" or similar mumbo-jumbo, cross them off your list.

Avoid interior perimeter solutions at all cost if you at all can. Go for external dig out and repair and slab repair. If you think about it interior sump pump and interior perimeter is making your walls into a water conduit. You don’t want water to come near or into your walls in the first place.

Not to mention pests, mice, crickets (black indoor ones). You’ll never get rid of these again. Pick your company on whether they’ll attempt exterior solution as the priority one.

Avoid anyone who proposes excavating anything until all possibilities of handling runoff on the surface have been exhausted.

It's not a question of internal or external, it's a question of whether you need to dig at all.

This is fine but for the houses I’ve lived in in Maryland, I don’t think you can have a dry basement without functional perimeter drains. If your house is of the age where the original ones have failed, you can play with downspouts all you like and it may not solve the problem.

I have a 60some year old house in MoCo. We've had no water issues in our basement since we managed the surface flow shortly after purchasing almost 30 years ago, and doubling the size of the house 15 years ago.

Ground water isn't really an issue for us as we're on the side of hill. Location, location, location. I'd think twice before buying bottom land in the piedmont.

If you doubled the size of the house 15 years ago, those are new drains? I don’t understand what you mean.

We had a small bit of water getting into the basement during rain when we moved in 30 years ago, quickly fixed with improved downspout draining and a bit of sculpting of the yard. 15 years ago, we popped the top and bumped basement out a bit. We did usual construction on the foundation bump, but nothing to the original foundation - just continued careful surface flow management. We still have no water getting in.

Do you have reason to believe the original drains aren’t functioning?

What original drains? There was no evidence of anything beyond some gravel when we dug out the foundation for the bump.

Okay well I’m not an expert but I think all houses with basements would have had clay “tiles” or something like that depending on when they were built, so possibly you’re not an expert about this either.

Failed attempt at sarcasm. The original drains were long since silted up.

What?? That wouldn’t make them disappear.