CHIPS act is a disaster so far

[Anonymous]

Why is someone trying to derail this pretty good thread about the CHIPS act?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is someone trying to derail this pretty good thread about the CHIPS act?

Because Republicans don’t want people to know that Democrats put in the work and get results for Americans.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Republicans have the attention span of gnats. If they can't have instant gratification, they don't want it. Just no discipline at all.

You also don't just snap your fingers and make industrial policy happen. It takes years to develop industry and infrastructure of this magnitude. Just look at any major construction project in a city near you. Think how long those apartment buildings take to build (hint, it's usually 2-3 years). Now multiply that difficulty by like 100 to get to what is necessary for a semi-conductor plant. Just one spec of dust or shedding of skin cells can disrupt the semiconductor process. OP, truly is an idiot that believes all things can be solved with 30 second sound bites.

Not sure I follow. You're saying that the same folks who couldn't build a working Obamacare website, or a solar industry despite massive investments, or get our own weapons out of Afghanistan, or manage the border, or open public schools safely like so many other countries did.....you're saying those same people will now "make industrial policy happen" ... and industrial policy is something so difficult that you need to "multiply that difficulty by like 100 to get to what is necessary"?

+1. What we need to "get things done" is a fat, bloated, lying bullshitter. Someone who's a real "businessman" with multiple bankruptcies and a fifty-year history of cheating contractors and tradesmen. MAGA!

You don't get it, do you?

The economy boomed under Trump and the GOP because they largely didn't have those Soviet delusions you seem to share.

In contrast Biden and Dems, proven incompetent time and again, want to regulate the private sector to death Soviet-style because "they know best."

If we had competent policy-leaders and policy-implementers, like say China or France have, I might think otherwise. But we don't.

Look at the long term graphs. The economy under Trump was a continuation of what Obama started. Everything took a dip with COVID as Trump left office. Everything came back and more, because Biden's administration are adults who got the vaccines out, cleared the supply chain issues and generally have out performed every other country in the world.

You claim Biden is incompetent, and yet, our economy is the envy of the world and far superior on a month by month, a quarterly and annual basis than Trump's administration. This goes for GDP growth, unemployment, job creation, you name it.

Why are you lying about the economy under Trump as compared to Biden, or are you simply not aware of the facts?

Sorry, you're absolutely delusional.

So be it -- let's come back in say 10 years and see what unparalleled success (your bet) or expensive failure (mine) comes out of this.

So rather than actually looking at the long term graphs, you prefer to call someone else delusional?

Ok, don't look at facts and keep living in your alternate reality bubble.

Sweetie, I don't need to look into whatever graphs WaPo chose to share; I am an economist working in a major investment house. There are so many wrong points with your previous message, let's start with the first one: "The economy under Trump was a continuation of what Obama started."

This is FALSE. Every metric in 2015 and 2016 was showing a substantial slowing down, even likely recession, until the Trump election. Then everything changed.

You have no idea what you're talking about, so I was graciously giving you the benefit of the doubt with that "let's come back in say 10 years.'

So we can either believe 15 years of data or we can believe a rando anonymous poster with an opinion.

Or, you can actually look at the relevant data, without a partisan agenda.

"For the U.S. economy as a whole, 2016 was an off year. Economic growth slowed to a tepid 1.6% annual rate, which was a five-year low and a sharp drop from the 2.9% pace of 2015."

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1YM0HL/

Sure and that 1.6 that Obama had was "tepid" but when Trump had the same 1.6 it was described as "robust" or "sizziling" or "spectacular"

See the problem?

You're hallucinating. First, what matters is the change of trajectory. Obama's 2.9 turned 1.6 and was widely expected to become a recession -- 0 or negative. Read that Reuters article. Second, Trump not only helped avoid that but delivered solid growth well above 1.6.

See the problem when you just make things up?

Because the GOP was constantly undermining the Obama Administration with needless government shutdowns that harmed the GDP and costs trillions of dollars needless, just like they did in 2023 with the debt ceiling and they will do again in January.

And then people like you will claim that Biden is bad for the economy.

One thing at a time.

So know you recognize that your earlier claim was FALSE, and fully acknowledge that the economy in 2016 was weak and slowing down until Trump was election? (which you blame on the GOP). This is your revised position after reviewing the facts per Reuters article, correct?

If so, slowly as it may be, we're making some progress to unbrainwash you.

+ 2024

Happy New Year, may it bring us more facts and less brainwashing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Republicans have the attention span of gnats. If they can't have instant gratification, they don't want it. Just no discipline at all.

You also don't just snap your fingers and make industrial policy happen. It takes years to develop industry and infrastructure of this magnitude. Just look at any major construction project in a city near you. Think how long those apartment buildings take to build (hint, it's usually 2-3 years). Now multiply that difficulty by like 100 to get to what is necessary for a semi-conductor plant. Just one spec of dust or shedding of skin cells can disrupt the semiconductor process. OP, truly is an idiot that believes all things can be solved with 30 second sound bites.

Not sure I follow. You're saying that the same folks who couldn't build a working Obamacare website, or a solar industry despite massive investments, or get our own weapons out of Afghanistan, or manage the border, or open public schools safely like so many other countries did.....you're saying those same people will now "make industrial policy happen" ... and industrial policy is something so difficult that you need to "multiply that difficulty by like 100 to get to what is necessary"?

+1. What we need to "get things done" is a fat, bloated, lying bullshitter. Someone who's a real "businessman" with multiple bankruptcies and a fifty-year history of cheating contractors and tradesmen. MAGA!

You don't get it, do you?

The economy boomed under Trump and the GOP because they largely didn't have those Soviet delusions you seem to share.

In contrast Biden and Dems, proven incompetent time and again, want to regulate the private sector to death Soviet-style because "they know best."

If we had competent policy-leaders and policy-implementers, like say China or France have, I might think otherwise. But we don't.

Look at the long term graphs. The economy under Trump was a continuation of what Obama started. Everything took a dip with COVID as Trump left office. Everything came back and more, because Biden's administration are adults who got the vaccines out, cleared the supply chain issues and generally have out performed every other country in the world.

You claim Biden is incompetent, and yet, our economy is the envy of the world and far superior on a month by month, a quarterly and annual basis than Trump's administration. This goes for GDP growth, unemployment, job creation, you name it.

Why are you lying about the economy under Trump as compared to Biden, or are you simply not aware of the facts?

Sorry, you're absolutely delusional.

So be it -- let's come back in say 10 years and see what unparalleled success (your bet) or expensive failure (mine) comes out of this.

So rather than actually looking at the long term graphs, you prefer to call someone else delusional?

Ok, don't look at facts and keep living in your alternate reality bubble.

Sweetie, I don't need to look into whatever graphs WaPo chose to share; I am an economist working in a major investment house. There are so many wrong points with your previous message, let's start with the first one: "The economy under Trump was a continuation of what Obama started."

This is FALSE. Every metric in 2015 and 2016 was showing a substantial slowing down, even likely recession, until the Trump election. Then everything changed.

You have no idea what you're talking about, so I was graciously giving you the benefit of the doubt with that "let's come back in say 10 years.'

So we can either believe 15 years of data or we can believe a rando anonymous poster with an opinion.

Or, you can actually look at the relevant data, without a partisan agenda.

"For the U.S. economy as a whole, 2016 was an off year. Economic growth slowed to a tepid 1.6% annual rate, which was a five-year low and a sharp drop from the 2.9% pace of 2015."

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1YM0HL/

Sure and that 1.6 that Obama had was "tepid" but when Trump had the same 1.6 it was described as "robust" or "sizziling" or "spectacular"

See the problem?

You're hallucinating. First, what matters is the change of trajectory. Obama's 2.9 turned 1.6 and was widely expected to become a recession -- 0 or negative. Read that Reuters article. Second, Trump not only helped avoid that but delivered solid growth well above 1.6.

See the problem when you just make things up?

Because the GOP was constantly undermining the Obama Administration with needless government shutdowns that harmed the GDP and costs trillions of dollars needless, just like they did in 2023 with the debt ceiling and they will do again in January.

And then people like you will claim that Biden is bad for the economy.

One thing at a time.

So know you recognize that your earlier claim was FALSE, and fully acknowledge that the economy in 2016 was weak and slowing down until Trump was election? (which you blame on the GOP). This is your revised position after reviewing the facts per Reuters article, correct?

If so, slowly as it may be, we're making some progress to unbrainwash you.

Here is the thing. In 2016, the unemployment and GDP numbers were roughly the same as they were in 2017 and 2018 and yet, under Obama, the numbers were anemic and under Trump they were sizzling. Exact. Same. Numbers.

During the campaign, Trump promised the GDP would grow to "4, 5, 6 even 7 percent" and yet he never saw anything more than about what Obama produced, and that was with Obama facing the 2008 meltdown that happened under Bush and Trump inheriting a steadily growing economy.

Do you know who has actually produced a GDP of over 4%?

Biden.

And that is in the face of inheriting an economic dumpster fire and having to fight republicans on things like debt ceiling and keeping the government open - things that cost the US treasury and US jobs.

[Anonymous]

Compare the charts

GDP
https://www.statista.com/statistics/188185/percent-change-from-preceding-period-in-real-gdp-in-the-us/


Unenployment
https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-unemployment-rate.htm

Jobsless Claims
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/jobless-claims

You can see on these three leading metrics what the trends were from W to Obama to Trump to Biden.

If you cannot accept that the economy was moving in the right direction under Obama and that Trump (and the media) crowed about how much better things were, when they were really pretty much the same and that is despite the GOP passing a tax cut that ballooned the US debt by 7+ trillion dollars with no appreciable positive impact to the country at large, then no, we cannot accept the basic facts together.

[Anonymous]

Job creation under the latter parts of Obama's term were better than at any time under trump

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Compare the charts

GDP
https://www.statista.com/statistics/188185/percent-change-from-preceding-period-in-real-gdp-in-the-us/


Unenployment
https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-unemployment-rate.htm

Jobsless Claims
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/jobless-claims

You can see on these three leading metrics what the trends were from W to Obama to Trump to Biden.

If you cannot accept that the economy was moving in the right direction under Obama and that Trump (and the media) crowed about how much better things were, when they were really pretty much the same and that is despite the GOP passing a tax cut that ballooned the US debt by 7+ trillion dollars with no appreciable positive impact to the country at large, then no, we cannot accept the basic facts together.

Blahblahblah you refute the facts in the Reuters article because blahblahblah. Sorry, your credibility is zero.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Compare the charts

GDP
https://www.statista.com/statistics/188185/percent-change-from-preceding-period-in-real-gdp-in-the-us/


Unenployment
https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-unemployment-rate.htm

Jobsless Claims
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/jobless-claims

You can see on these three leading metrics what the trends were from W to Obama to Trump to Biden.

If you cannot accept that the economy was moving in the right direction under Obama and that Trump (and the media) crowed about how much better things were, when they were really pretty much the same and that is despite the GOP passing a tax cut that ballooned the US debt by 7+ trillion dollars with no appreciable positive impact to the country at large, then no, we cannot accept the basic facts together.

Blahblahblah you refute the facts in the Reuters article because blahblahblah. Sorry, your credibility is zero.

I provided several independent links that confirm my assertion. You can 'blah blah blah" all you want but it doesn't bolster your argument or make you right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Republicans have the attention span of gnats. If they can't have instant gratification, they don't want it. Just no discipline at all.

You also don't just snap your fingers and make industrial policy happen. It takes years to develop industry and infrastructure of this magnitude. Just look at any major construction project in a city near you. Think how long those apartment buildings take to build (hint, it's usually 2-3 years). Now multiply that difficulty by like 100 to get to what is necessary for a semi-conductor plant. Just one spec of dust or shedding of skin cells can disrupt the semiconductor process. OP, truly is an idiot that believes all things can be solved with 30 second sound bites.

Not sure I follow. You're saying that the same folks who couldn't build a working Obamacare website, or a solar industry despite massive investments, or get our own weapons out of Afghanistan, or manage the border, or open public schools safely like so many other countries did.....you're saying those same people will now "make industrial policy happen" ... and industrial policy is something so difficult that you need to "multiply that difficulty by like 100 to get to what is necessary"?

+1. What we need to "get things done" is a fat, bloated, lying bullshitter. Someone who's a real "businessman" with multiple bankruptcies and a fifty-year history of cheating contractors and tradesmen. MAGA!

You don't get it, do you?

The economy boomed under Trump and the GOP because they largely didn't have those Soviet delusions you seem to share.

In contrast Biden and Dems, proven incompetent time and again, want to regulate the private sector to death Soviet-style because "they know best."

If we had competent policy-leaders and policy-implementers, like say China or France have, I might think otherwise. But we don't.

Look at the long term graphs. The economy under Trump was a continuation of what Obama started. Everything took a dip with COVID as Trump left office. Everything came back and more, because Biden's administration are adults who got the vaccines out, cleared the supply chain issues and generally have out performed every other country in the world.

You claim Biden is incompetent, and yet, our economy is the envy of the world and far superior on a month by month, a quarterly and annual basis than Trump's administration. This goes for GDP growth, unemployment, job creation, you name it.

Why are you lying about the economy under Trump as compared to Biden, or are you simply not aware of the facts?

Sorry, you're absolutely delusional.

So be it -- let's come back in say 10 years and see what unparalleled success (your bet) or expensive failure (mine) comes out of this.

So rather than actually looking at the long term graphs, you prefer to call someone else delusional?

Ok, don't look at facts and keep living in your alternate reality bubble.

Sweetie, I don't need to look into whatever graphs WaPo chose to share; I am an economist working in a major investment house. There are so many wrong points with your previous message, let's start with the first one: "The economy under Trump was a continuation of what Obama started."

This is FALSE. Every metric in 2015 and 2016 was showing a substantial slowing down, even likely recession, until the Trump election. Then everything changed.

You have no idea what you're talking about, so I was graciously giving you the benefit of the doubt with that "let's come back in say 10 years.'

So we can either believe 15 years of data or we can believe a rando anonymous poster with an opinion.

Or, you can actually look at the relevant data, without a partisan agenda.

"For the U.S. economy as a whole, 2016 was an off year. Economic growth slowed to a tepid 1.6% annual rate, which was a five-year low and a sharp drop from the 2.9% pace of 2015."

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1YM0HL/

Sure and that 1.6 that Obama had was "tepid" but when Trump had the same 1.6 it was described as "robust" or "sizziling" or "spectacular"

See the problem?

You're hallucinating. First, what matters is the change of trajectory. Obama's 2.9 turned 1.6 and was widely expected to become a recession -- 0 or negative. Read that Reuters article. Second, Trump not only helped avoid that but delivered solid growth well above 1.6.

See the problem when you just make things up?

Because the GOP was constantly undermining the Obama Administration with needless government shutdowns that harmed the GDP and costs trillions of dollars needless, just like they did in 2023 with the debt ceiling and they will do again in January.

And then people like you will claim that Biden is bad for the economy.

One thing at a time.

So know you recognize that your earlier claim was FALSE, and fully acknowledge that the economy in 2016 was weak and slowing down until Trump was election? (which you blame on the GOP). This is your revised position after reviewing the facts per Reuters article, correct?

If so, slowly as it may be, we're making some progress to unbrainwash you.

DP... That's a BS claim. It's an absolute fact that Trump inherited a booming economy from Obama. In the data, whether unemployment, stock market, other economic growth metrics, et cetera there is NO noticeable inflection point demonstrating much of any upturn at all that can be attributed to Trump. What happened under Trump was nothing but a continuation of things already in motion and momentum from Obama.







And to counter the phony "uhh those unemployment numbers are fake, people just stopped looking for jobs" job creation was higher under Obama too.



Many economic figures got worse under Trump, like the trade deficit

[Anonymous]

It's amazing how a Democrat and a Republican can somehow look at the exact same graphs and charts, and the Democrat points out the obvious fact that the trend line is going up, yet the Republican will still try to argue that it's going down. And vice versa. It's almost as though Republicans don't know how to read charts and graphs, or don't know what numbers actually mean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing how a Democrat and a Republican can somehow look at the exact same graphs and charts, and the Democrat points out the obvious fact that the trend line is going up, yet the Republican will still try to argue that it's going down. And vice versa. It's almost as though Republicans don't know how to read charts and graphs, or don't know what numbers actually mean.

Trump did say that he if he ever ran for president, it would be as a republican because republican voters are dumb.

The last page of this thread proves his point.

[Anonymous]

TIL: Dems can't read even basic English.

"For the U.S. economy as a whole, 2016 was an off year. Economic growth slowed to a tepid 1.6% annual rate, which was a five-year low and a sharp drop from the 2.9% pace of 2015."

https://www.reuters.com/a...KBN1YM0HL/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing how a Democrat and a Republican can somehow look at the exact same graphs and charts, and the Democrat points out the obvious fact that the trend line is going up, yet the Republican will still try to argue that it's going down. And vice versa. It's almost as though Republicans don't know how to read charts and graphs, or don't know what numbers actually mean.

Sweetie, you think Reuters is "Repiblicans"?

"For the U.S. economy as a whole, 2016 was an off year. Economic growth slowed to a tepid 1.6% annual rate, which was a five-year low and a sharp drop from the 2.9% pace of 2015."

https://www.reuters.com/a...KBN1YM0HL/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It takes a while to get implemented.

From the White House:

In the one year since CHIPS was signed into law, companies have announced over $166 billion in manufacturing in semiconductors and electronics, and at least 50 community colleges in 19 states have announced new or expanded programming to help American workers access good-paying jobs in the semiconductor industry.

From the Semiconductor Association:

companies in the semiconductor ecosystem have already announced dozens of new projects in the U.S.—totaling hundreds of billions of dollars in private investment—in anticipation of CHIPS incentives. Now, with CHIPS on track to deliver massive benefits to our country, it’s critical for leaders in Washington to advance policies that enhance this historic accomplishment. Next steps should include continuing to implement the new law in a timely manner and in close collaboration with industry experts, addressing the significant shortage of STEM workers facing the semiconductor sector and the entire U.S. economy, and ensuring the chip industry has open access to global markets.

In other words, you can't turn a ship in an hour. But the education and manufacturing foundation is being laid. Americans will be feeling the positive impact of this legislation for decades.

We may not have a while. The whole reason this is being done is China is getting ready to attack Taiwan.

Now shake a leg!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-26/samsung-delays-production-at-new-us-factory-to-2025-daily-says

More than a year after Biden signed the Chips Act into law, promising $100 billion in support to new semiconductor plants in the US, his government has made one grant of only $35 million to the American subsidiary of British aerospace firm BAE Systems Plc.

———

TSMC delayed in so far in az due to lack of quality workers

Samsung in Texas now delayed

Intel concerned about funds being disbursed

——

Nice job Joe!

How is a lack of qualified workers The President's fault?