Algebra I freshman year and selective colleges

[Anonymous]

I know this is an “old” experience but I graduated in 2005 without calculus (I took ap stats) and without a 4th year of science and got into uva, Hopkins, and Georgetown, among others. Went to hs in a highly ranked college oriented public district with great guidance counselors. Grades and sats were in avg ranges for the schools I applied to but I had a strong demonstrated interest in languages and humanities and a “narrative arc”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DD took Algebra 1 freshman year at a DC private. Before entering freshman year, you could test into Geometry, otherwise you are placed in Alegebra 1. We didn’t want to overload her freshman year as she struggles with anxiety. She got an A in the class and is on track for an A in Geometry. She wants a humanities degree. Will she be shut out of selective schools like William and Mary because of this? I’m wondering if she should take math this summer to move up, though I really, really don’t want to do this as she works very hard during the year. She’s a straight A student but I know that is hardly enough these days for some of these schools.

Do NOT have your DD take ALG2 as a Summer course!!! Want to ramp up the anxiety and ensure she doesn't have time to fully learn the material (to success for the next level math courses), then have her take a full 8 month course in 6-8 weeks over the summer, I can assure you it will also ramp up her anxiety to levels you likely have not seen.

Step back, let her progress at the level she is at, and find schools that are the right fit for her---and several safeties as well.

[Anonymous]

Not every kid is freaked out by some summer math. DC took AP calc online of his own volition for six weeks over the summer, with two or three hours a day of work and no anxiety involved. Took multivariable the next year and was later admitted to several Ivies. Cue the haters, but there are different experiences and perspectives on this matter.

[Anonymous]

There are plenty of school for which straight A's is indeed enough. Probably the vast majority of them.

[Anonymous]

Interesting. My sense is that you need to get to at least BC Calc by senior year, as a humanities major, to have a chance at the top schools, and it's still a total crapshoot. Realistically, OP, your DD should target schools other than the top 20--so many kids who have the grades, the rigor, the advanced classes, etc., and still don't get in, that I would try to be very realistic. If she is high anxiety, why force the top 20? She can get a great education a lot of places, why force the math?

-- college professor at a non-top 20 school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know this is an “old” experience but I graduated in 2005 without calculus (I took ap stats) and without a 4th year of science and got into uva, Hopkins, and Georgetown, among others. Went to hs in a highly ranked college oriented public district with great guidance counselors. Grades and sats were in avg ranges for the schools I applied to but I had a strong demonstrated interest in languages and humanities and a “narrative arc”

This might as well say "graduated in 1905" for all the relevance it has now. Completely different landscape.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. My sense is that you need to get to at least BC Calc by senior year, as a humanities major, to have a chance at the top schools, and it's still a total crapshoot. Realistically, OP, your DD should target schools other than the top 20--so many kids who have the grades, the rigor, the advanced classes, etc., and still don't get in, that I would try to be very realistic. If she is high anxiety, why force the top 20? She can get a great education a lot of places, why force the math?

-- college professor at a non-top 20 school

Not at all AP Calc AB is far enough- even at Ivies fur a non-stem major.

[Anonymous]

My kid started in Algebra I in 9th grade but wanted to "catch up" so took both Geometry and Algebra II in 10th grade. Basically, they opted for a second math class where they'd normally have an elective. This seems more sane than cramming a year-long course into the summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid started in Algebra I in 9th grade but wanted to "catch up" so took both Geometry and Algebra II in 10th grade. Basically, they opted for a second math class where they'd normally have an elective. This seems more sane than cramming a year-long course into the summer.

This wouldn’t be possible in most curriculums today. Geometry is no longer a distinct subject taught for a full year, it’s a few topics rolled into what is otherwise an algebra class. It should all just be renamed because, algebra 1, geometry, algebra 2, is really a three year algebra sequence taught on a spiral. Each with review and new topics. Really this means taking one in summer is fine, the new material is reinforced the following year. As long as it’s self motivated, there shouldn’t be anxiety. May even boost confidence.

But to OPs question, the current trajectory will be fine, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child at UVA and from what I’ve seen, they admit students who took calculus (either AB or BC) senior year in the Arts & Sciences college. Your child can take precalculus at community college perhaps. I think summer is a good time to take a hard math class because they can focus on just one subject although it will move fast.

Are you trying to say that UVA denies students who did not have calculus in high school?

Pretty much all top 30 schools will require Calculus AB or BC in order to be admitted. Otherwise, the student will need an extraordinary hook. I'm sure there are some exceptions for the pure humanities student, but not many. So for kids in 8th or 9th grade who might have an interest in Duke or Brown or UCLA or Michigan, I'd plan accordingly

"Require" is an overstatement. This is not as categorically true as it sounds in this post. Colleges are well aware that the middle school math track determines whether a student has the opportunity to take calc. Colleges do not dock students for not taking courses they did not have the opportunity to take due to a middle school math placement.

It is true that many students at top schools had some calc in high school, but correlation is not causation.

It's not the case that universities 'require' calc for admission. My kid is a peer advisor at an Ivy and this year has two kids who didn't take calc in HS. It does put them behind in their intended major, but they were admitted. She thinks (the kids said) that calc wasn't available in their HS. So this doesn't necessarily translate to your case. But it does happen. (That said, I'd concur with a PP who said that admissions officer compare your kids with others in the school so if your kid is the only one a year behind, it would stand out.)

It is pretty common for kids to take geometry in the summer. I'd strongly recommend they not try the other courses in the summer, as the algebra/pre-calc courses are pretty foundational. But geometry works ok in the summer. See if your kid would allow them to take geometry over summer-- it is offered various places, but your school may not allow math credits to transfer in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What did others at the school do? And how early could she have started it but didn’t? Is it honors or regular algebra, if your school has a choice n

This is OP. That’s the problem, I’d say more than half of the school took Geometry. She is at a Private so they don’t do honors and only offer a handful of APs.

I don’t know. In my mind, math is one case where this doesn’t make as much sense. The decision to approve kids to take algebra in 7th happens in 6th grade! Are they really saying that anyone who didn’t make that cut as a 11 year old and then didn’t choose to accelerate by taking a summer class is at a huge disadvantage? I am sure they are at the very best engineering schools. But I really don’t see even top 30 schools caring that much. I don’t have data on this, but it just doesn’t make sense to me at all that someone would get such a bump by being a year ahead in math.

People shouldn’t be penalized for something decided so long ago. It’s not the same as choosing to take cal AB vs BC or not taking a science AP when it’s offered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid started in Algebra I in 9th grade but wanted to "catch up" so took both Geometry and Algebra II in 10th grade. Basically, they opted for a second math class where they'd normally have an elective. This seems more sane than cramming a year-long course into the summer.

This wouldn’t be possible in most curriculums today. Geometry is no longer a distinct subject taught for a full year, it’s a few topics rolled into what is otherwise an algebra class. It should all just be renamed because, algebra 1, geometry, algebra 2, is really a three year algebra sequence taught on a spiral. Each with review and new topics. Really this means taking one in summer is fine, the new material is reinforced the following year. As long as it’s self motivated, there shouldn’t be anxiety. May even boost confidence.

But to OPs question, the current trajectory will be fine, too.

They are actually doing this now. I know IB curriculum integrates algebra and geometry more officially, but my kid was allowed to do this and isn't having any difficulty at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What did others at the school do? And how early could she have started it but didn’t? Is it honors or regular algebra, if your school has a choice n

This is OP. That’s the problem, I’d say more than half of the school took Geometry. She is at a Private so they don’t do honors and only offer a handful of APs.

I don’t know. In my mind, math is one case where this doesn’t make as much sense. The decision to approve kids to take algebra in 7th happens in 6th grade! Are they really saying that anyone who didn’t make that cut as a 11 year old and then didn’t choose to accelerate by taking a summer class is at a huge disadvantage? I am sure they are at the very best engineering schools. But I really don’t see even top 30 schools caring that much. I don’t have data on this, but it just doesn’t make sense to me at all that someone would get such a bump by being a year ahead in math.

People shouldn’t be penalized for something decided so long ago. It’s not the same as choosing to take cal AB vs BC or not taking a science AP when it’s offered.

This isn't about accelerating into Algebra in 6th or 7th, but about having not taken Algebra in 8th. My experience is that more than half the grade has taken Algebra by the end of 8th. That puts OP's daughter in the bottom half of her class, at least as to her math level.

[Anonymous]

FWIW, the students in the top math track at our school are not the ones going to the top colleges (that may be because that teacher torpedos their GPAs though).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. My sense is that you need to get to at least BC Calc by senior year, as a humanities major, to have a chance at the top schools, and it's still a total crapshoot. Realistically, OP, your DD should target schools other than the top 20--so many kids who have the grades, the rigor, the advanced classes, etc., and still don't get in, that I would try to be very realistic. If she is high anxiety, why force the top 20? She can get a great education a lot of places, why force the math?

-- college professor at a non-top 20 school

Not at all AP Calc AB is far enough- even at Ivies fur a non-stem major.

+1 this is not required.