Compared Against Peers - T20 Admissions

[Anonymous]

This is a great thread - in a few months parents will be freaking because their 1500 plus 4.5 student (or whatever) is shut out of the top 20. Having been through this process a few times at both public and private high schools, it is clear that class rank is the number one indicator of admission all other things being about equal - it's not guaranteed of course, and does not apply for URM or Athletic admissions - but lots of high stats kids are in the top 10 percent of the class, but well below the top 10 candidates in the ranking. You need to have a good grasp of your rank AND your competition to choose ED and RD wisely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not only does our HS limit apps to avoid a kid grabbing too much, they’ll have a sit down w kid and parents if you even think about applying to more schools after SCEA acceptance. If one more far reach, maybe. But not a lot. If it’s for financial reasons, that’s different

but if it's financial reasons, then wouldn't the SCEA admit take care of that? Are there SCEA admits that do not meet full need?

I think it's because when a college says they meet full need it doesn't mean a family can actually afford the tuition.
We have a HHI of $400 and Harvard would likely say we have no need but it doesn't mean we have $90K to pay for Harvard each year.

Of course then the question becomes, why would I allow my kid to apply to Harvard in the first place if I wasn't willing and able to pay that $90K? Personally I would not and I have not. If I allow them to apply to a school like Harvard I'm saying I'm 100% committed to sticker price if they get in. But I think some families do apply SCEA and then say, "uh, never mind. I think we'll try for a cheaper option in RD."

Yes but a cheaper option will NOT be found at the non SCEA ivies, MIT. will instead have to look for the rare full ride (or close) merit in T20ish schools (Vandy, Duke, WashU..not sure if there are any others) or expand to T50? So there’s no reason to run the table and apply to the other ivies+ if you got into SCEA/REA school.

Agreed. I'm not sure why a kid would need to apply beyond the SCEA outside of pride so it's kind of obnoxious when they do.
A 4.0 kid did it a few years ago at another Big3 and basically shut everyone else out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What colleges consider full need is not always the same as what families consider, esp for middle class families in high coa areas

That is true. But the SCEA/REA school will give the most need based aid. Dartmouth, Cornell, UPenn, Brown, Columbia will be lower. They MAY match HYPS but that’s not a guarantee. And probably none would choose lower ivy over HYPS Although I do know of a TJ girl who got into Yale SCEA and in the end chose UPenn M&T program (which she could have applied to ED)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sure would be nice if the CC at our top DMV private would give kids an idea where they stand relative to their peers for specific colleges. This is where college counseling at a school could really make a difference in outcomes. Ours just makes sure you have a safety on your list and that’s the extent of it!!

I'm guessing you're at Sidwell.

May private CCs DO try to guide their students in certain directions based off the confidential info they know about other students and then their parents flip their shit. It's why so many of them pay for private CC outside of school.

OP, my understanding has been review starts at the micro level - peers from the same school - before moving on to a region.

[Anonymous]

Is there an agreed upon list of the top 20 that everyone is referring to here?

[Anonymous]

This thread is horrifying…..

[Anonymous]

Anyone have first hand experience with Burke college counseling? I know they have a range of kids so not everyone is competing for top schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is horrifying…..

How so?

[Anonymous]

I think it is really about recommendations from the counselor and teachers, and how the recommendations present the students.

[Anonymous]

Different and probably unpopular perspective about top stats kid applying SCEA and then to other universities RD. It is possible that a SCEA applicant may apply to, say Stanford, because they have the highest chance of acceptance there (think double legacy, super smart twin applying, and/or other connections to the university). Student might prefer Princeton and Brown, but the chances of getting in to those schools are also really low so the best strategy is to try SCEA at Stanford and then apply at Princeton and Brown with, hopefully, a Stanford acceptance in their pocket.

How is this different than students who apply to a rolling school they have no intention of attending but use it as insurance while they apply to their top choices? Do we say that those kids are taking away spots from others?

In both cases, the application strategy seems reasonable and sensible. Rolling admissions and SCEA provide for that kind of flexibility. I do agree that if, after being accepted SCEA, someone applies to every T10 school simply for bragging rights, that's obnoxious, but if they really are amazing enough to be accepted at all of those places, then congrats to them!

For what it's worth, my DC was on the receiving end of this situation. Someone in his small private school graduating class did this. I never once felt like this student "took a spot away" from my DC who ended up at a T10 school as well (but not his first choice where the other student turned down an admissions offer was accepted).

[Anonymous]

1 1/2 pages through this thread and not a single mention of test scores. Just GPA. Or rank, which is derivative of GPA. A little nod to rigor, which can be very subjective, too. But nothing about test scores.

How embarrassing. What a flawed system, regardless the type of class a college is trying to build through admissions.

[Anonymous]

It will be interesting to see. My DD is up against a few kids from her school for ED. She took all the hardest classes, has a 3.9+. One of the other girls has a 4.0 and took all the easiest classes. My DD has better ECs but all else being equal I’m interested in the outcome. There is a significant difference between the easy classes and the hard ones at our school. I know she was very protective of her GPA and her choices were deliberate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1 1/2 pages through this thread and not a single mention of test scores. Just GPA. Or rank, which is derivative of GPA. A little nod to rigor, which can be very subjective, too. But nothing about test scores.

How embarrassing. What a flawed system, regardless the type of class a college is trying to build through admissions.

Everybody’s got a 34; 35 or 36. That really does not make a difference to admissions officers. Hate to break it to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It will be interesting to see. My DD is up against a few kids from her school for ED. She took all the hardest classes, has a 3.9+. One of the other girls has a 4.0 and took all the easiest classes. My DD has better ECs but all else being equal I’m interested in the outcome. There is a significant difference between the easy classes and the hard ones at our school. I know she was very protective of her GPA and her choices were deliberate.

It is possible that all of them or none of them will get into their "top" choices.

It is a lottery for 3% admission schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They definitely compare kids from one school. I was looking through the SCIOR data for my kid's school and I think it's best for everyone when the academic outliers ED successfully.

In several recent years an academic superstar (4.0 or a hair below) has run the table during regular decision and basically shut everyone else out. The schools don't have quotas per say but an exceptionally strong kid can seemingly hurt the chances of the 3.8s or low 3.9s.

So the kid didn’t ED?

I'm not PP but at our school last year, we know of someone who got in SCEA to their dream school but proceeded to run the table in RD for kicks (and was successful at running the table) but then (no surprise) went to the dream school from SCEA. That was crummy and I can't believe the parents and CCO thought it was ok.

this is brutal but I’ll one up you - valedictorian at DCs private was accepted ED at Ivy and then kept all RD apps open - then during various end of year ceremonies she made sure to include and have announced all the other admits she garnered - we were flabbergasted to say the least. This at a top private