TJ CASE UPDATE: Cert Petition Distributed for Conference

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you are Asian, you would feel disadvantaged. Many of us sacrificed a lot for our kids. We don’t need programs to put our children in a disadvantaged situation.





quote=Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Asian community who sacrificed a t lot for their kids don’t need a system that disadvantages them. A friend told me that he just voted one way for the first time bc of bias against Asians.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lol. Asians in the community feel that’s it is and there is data that proves it. But who cares about them. Let’s be inclusive except if it impacts th

Anonymous wrote:So this case hinges on perceived discrimination against Asians from a race-blind process that mostly admits Asians? I don't think even this wacky court would touch this nonsense.

SOME (rich, privileged) Asians “feel” that it is.

But other Asians - and the facts - don’t support it.

Asian families are not “disadvantaged” by the current process.

If it weren't for the fact that it's race-blind, I would think they were advantaged since the process mainly selects Asians at a much higher rate than any other group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you are Asian, you would feel disadvantaged. Many of us sacrificed a lot for our kids. We don’t need programs to put our children in a disadvantaged situation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian community who sacrificed a t lot for their kids don’t need a system that disadvantages them. A friend told me that he just voted one way for the first time bc of bias against Asians.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lol. Asians in the community feel that’s it is and there is data that proves it. But who cares about them. Let’s be inclusive except if it impacts th

Anonymous wrote:So this case hinges on perceived discrimination against Asians from a race-blind process that mostly admits Asians? I don't think even this wacky court would touch this nonsense.

SOME (rich, privileged) Asians “feel” that it is.

But other Asians - and the facts - don’t support it.

Asian families are not “disadvantaged” by the current process.

Why would you “feel” disadvantaged?

Asian students are admitted at the highest rate and make up the largest group at the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are Asian, you would feel disadvantaged. Many of us sacrificed a lot for our kids. We don’t need programs to put our children in a disadvantaged situation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian community who sacrificed a t lot for their kids don’t need a system that disadvantages them. A friend told me that he just voted one way for the first time bc of bias against Asians.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lol. Asians in the community feel that’s it is and there is data that proves it. But who cares about them. Let’s be inclusive except if it impacts th

Anonymous wrote:So this case hinges on perceived discrimination against Asians from a race-blind process that mostly admits Asians? I don't think even this wacky court would touch this nonsense.

SOME (rich, privileged) Asians “feel” that it is.

But other Asians - and the facts - don’t support it.

Asian families are not “disadvantaged” by the current process.

Why would you “feel” disadvantaged?

Asian students are admitted at the highest rate and make up the largest group at the school.

Because outcomes do not imply the lack of systemic bias. Scrips Spelling Bee is highly biased towards native English speakers who are children of native English speakers. The high concentration of Asians at the national competition suggests many overcame that bias.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are Asian, you would feel disadvantaged. Many of us sacrificed a lot for our kids. We don’t need programs to put our children in a disadvantaged situation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian community who sacrificed a t lot for their kids don’t need a system that disadvantages them. A friend told me that he just voted one way for the first time bc of bias against Asians.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lol. Asians in the community feel that’s it is and there is data that proves it. But who cares about them. Let’s be inclusive except if it impacts th

Anonymous wrote:So this case hinges on perceived discrimination against Asians from a race-blind process that mostly admits Asians? I don't think even this wacky court would touch this nonsense.

SOME (rich, privileged) Asians “feel” that it is.

But other Asians - and the facts - don’t support it.

Asian families are not “disadvantaged” by the current process.

Why would you “feel” disadvantaged?

Asian students are admitted at the highest rate and make up the largest group at the school.

I'd heard that's only because many other groups don't feel welcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are Asian, you would feel disadvantaged. Many of us sacrificed a lot for our kids. We don’t need programs to put our children in a disadvantaged situation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian community who sacrificed a t lot for their kids don’t need a system that disadvantages them. A friend told me that he just voted one way for the first time bc of bias against Asians.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lol. Asians in the community feel that’s it is and there is data that proves it. But who cares about them. Let’s be inclusive except if it impacts th

Anonymous wrote:So this case hinges on perceived discrimination against Asians from a race-blind process that mostly admits Asians? I don't think even this wacky court would touch this nonsense.

SOME (rich, privileged) Asians “feel” that it is.

But other Asians - and the facts - don’t support it.

Asian families are not “disadvantaged” by the current process.

Why would you “feel” disadvantaged?

Asian students are admitted at the highest rate and make up the largest group at the school.

Because outcomes do not imply the lack of systemic bias. Scrips Spelling Bee is highly biased towards native English speakers who are children of native English speakers. The high concentration of Asians at the national competition suggests many overcame that bias.

This is false. The single greatest weapon that many spellers have at their disposal to solve difficult words at the highest levels is language of origin. No American school does any kind of work to teach kids how to use language of origin to decode tough spelling problems. There's an argument to be made that students from immigrant families actually have an advantage in this area.

And besides, the Spelling Bee also rewards rote memorization, which is an outdated learning technique that is nevertheless still prized in Asian communities because of its relevance on exams like the gaokao.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are Asian, you would feel disadvantaged. Many of us sacrificed a lot for our kids. We don’t need programs to put our children in a disadvantaged situation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian community who sacrificed a t lot for their kids don’t need a system that disadvantages them. A friend told me that he just voted one way for the first time bc of bias against Asians.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lol. Asians in the community feel that’s it is and there is data that proves it. But who cares about them. Let’s be inclusive except if it impacts th

Anonymous wrote:So this case hinges on perceived discrimination against Asians from a race-blind process that mostly admits Asians? I don't think even this wacky court would touch this nonsense.

SOME (rich, privileged) Asians “feel” that it is.

But other Asians - and the facts - don’t support it.

Asian families are not “disadvantaged” by the current process.

Why would you “feel” disadvantaged?

Asian students are admitted at the highest rate and make up the largest group at the school.

They "feel" disadvantaged because the old process was favorable to their preferred model of education. They are mischaracterizing the removal of an advantage as the introduction of a disadvantage because they felt as though they deserved the advantage that the old process granted them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are Asian, you would feel disadvantaged. Many of us sacrificed a lot for our kids. We don’t need programs to put our children in a disadvantaged situation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian community who sacrificed a t lot for their kids don’t need a system that disadvantages them. A friend told me that he just voted one way for the first time bc of bias against Asians.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lol. Asians in the community feel that’s it is and there is data that proves it. But who cares about them. Let’s be inclusive except if it impacts th

Anonymous wrote:So this case hinges on perceived discrimination against Asians from a race-blind process that mostly admits Asians? I don't think even this wacky court would touch this nonsense.

SOME (rich, privileged) Asians “feel” that it is.

But other Asians - and the facts - don’t support it.

Asian families are not “disadvantaged” by the current process.

Why would you “feel” disadvantaged?

Asian students are admitted at the highest rate and make up the largest group at the school.

Because outcomes do not imply the lack of systemic bias. Scrips Spelling Bee is highly biased towards native English speakers who are children of native English speakers. The high concentration of Asians at the national competition suggests many overcame that bias.

If there is any “systemic bias”, it’s working to benefit Asian students based on their high rate of acceptance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you started this thread to follow the cert petition, not for people to rehash the same old arguments. Do you have an update? Otherwise, I suggest this thread be locked.

OP here. Whether or not you are correct, I don't appreciate being told why I started a thread. I do think there is value in folks diving into the links that I provided and actually reading the competing briefs submitted by the legal teams, even though they large do "rehash the same old arguments" at a much higher level.

The consensus among folks who have actually read the briefs seems to be that the School Board's is significantly stronger and that the Coalition's only chance of having the case heard is a desire from SCOTUS to try to leverage the case to make policy. Their arguments, however, are narrowly tailored to the specific TJ admissions situation and thus don't seem to offer an avenue for broader application. The more I think about it, the more I feel that it's likely that the petition is denied, especially in light of the fact that by the time the case was decided, four classes would have been likely to be selected by that process and a brand new School Board and Superintendent are in place anyway. Even if SCOTUS wanted to rule on a case so narrow, it's difficult to see what the real impact would be aside from the Coalition being able to celebrate on the steps of the Court and take a few pictures.

The new School Board would simply take the ruling back to FCPS's legal team and come up with a way to achieve the same goals in a different way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you started this thread to follow the cert petition, not for people to rehash the same old arguments. Do you have an update? Otherwise, I suggest this thread be locked.

OP here. Whether or not you are correct, I don't appreciate being told why I started a thread. I do think there is value in folks diving into the links that I provided and actually reading the competing briefs submitted by the legal teams, even though they large do "rehash the same old arguments" at a much higher level.

The consensus among folks who have actually read the briefs seems to be that the School Board's is significantly stronger and that the Coalition's only chance of having the case heard is a desire from SCOTUS to try to leverage the case to make policy. Their arguments, however, are narrowly tailored to the specific TJ admissions situation and thus don't seem to offer an avenue for broader application. The more I think about it, the more I feel that it's likely that the petition is denied, especially in light of the fact that by the time the case was decided, four classes would have been likely to be selected by that process and a brand new School Board and Superintendent are in place anyway. Even if SCOTUS wanted to rule on a case so narrow, it's difficult to see what the real impact would be aside from the Coalition being able to celebrate on the steps of the Court and take a few pictures.

The new School Board would simply take the ruling back to FCPS's legal team and come up with a way to achieve the same goals in a different way.

NP. Actually, I think this level of minutiae, "cert petition distributed for conference" is nuts. I've never heard of anyone following any potential court case so closely. Just ridiculous.

If the Supreme Court were to take it up and make a ruling, then we could delve into the merits. As is it is, we're basically discussing vaporware.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you started this thread to follow the cert petition, not for people to rehash the same old arguments. Do you have an update? Otherwise, I suggest this thread be locked.

OP here. Whether or not you are correct, I don't appreciate being told why I started a thread. I do think there is value in folks diving into the links that I provided and actually reading the competing briefs submitted by the legal teams, even though they large do "rehash the same old arguments" at a much higher level.

The consensus among folks who have actually read the briefs seems to be that the School Board's is significantly stronger and that the Coalition's only chance of having the case heard is a desire from SCOTUS to try to leverage the case to make policy. Their arguments, however, are narrowly tailored to the specific TJ admissions situation and thus don't seem to offer an avenue for broader application. The more I think about it, the more I feel that it's likely that the petition is denied, especially in light of the fact that by the time the case was decided, four classes would have been likely to be selected by that process and a brand new School Board and Superintendent are in place anyway. Even if SCOTUS wanted to rule on a case so narrow, it's difficult to see what the real impact would be aside from the Coalition being able to celebrate on the steps of the Court and take a few pictures.

The new School Board would simply take the ruling back to FCPS's legal team and come up with a way to achieve the same goals in a different way.

NP. Actually, I think this level of minutiae, "cert petition distributed for conference" is nuts. I've never heard of anyone following any potential court case so closely. Just ridiculous.

If the Supreme Court were to take it up and make a ruling, then we could delve into the merits. As is it is, we're basically discussing vaporware.

OP. You're more than welcome to exit the thread rather than pass judgment on whether or not it's worth discussing. All you did is give it further engagement and a bump up the pecking order in the AAP forum.

There are plenty of people who have been asking when/if the case will be taken up by the Court because they have a high degree of interest in its outcome. I'm trying to provide a service to those people.