Condo fees are ridiculous

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a lot of complaints about condo living but the condo fee isn't one of them. Before buying a condo, you should get copies of the condos last financials for at least the last few years. This will pretty instantly give you an idea of whether the fees are reasonable or not, plus will give you a good idea of whether the building issues a lot of special assessments and what their approach to maintenance is. There is zero reason to be surprised or confused about condo fees.

Actually, one of my complaints about owning a condo is how often other owners are totally clueless about the purpose of fees and want to do dumb things with the condo's money because they see the amount of money in the condo general fund and think it's time for a spending spree. Our building always has exactly one owner who wants to spend money on random projects that are not necessary and will not enhance the value of anyone's unit, because they have no concept of how money works.

I remember one condo board meeting where the owners of one unit were suggesting doing a 14k landscaping project to "beautify" a small strip of property that people used as a pass through to our parking area. When it was pointed out that not only would suck up our entire condo fund but would also create a maintenance need going forward that wasn't within the budget of our current fee structure, this person literally said "who cares, it's just money." They were young owners who likely had bought with a down payment provided by parents and I don't think understood the concept of ROI. Fortunately the majority of owners in the building have always gotten this and we've never had to acquiesce to the idiotic demands of the less practical owners, but fighting with them over stuff that honestly shouldn't even be a question is the worst part of owning a condo and the main reason I look forward to seeing ours in a couple years time.

But condo fees themselves are fine. Ours pay for things we'd otherwise have to pay for ourselves, and it's honestly much easier to just pay one set fee to the building once a month than to have to deal with things like water and bulk trash and landscapers individually.

ok, this is nothing. it's like a round error for big buildings. your condo fees are likely less than $500. condo fees can be in the thousands.

Right, but I live in a small building with low fees. That's the whole point -- small building, few amenities, reasonable fees that go to cover things you'd have to pay for yourself in a townhouse, like water, landscaping, trash. This is why OP's statement that condo fess are "ridiculous" is incorrect. It depends on the building and how it is managed.

Btw, 14k is nothing for a large building with hundreds of units, but for our small, 6-unit building, it's enough to undertake major projects. We were able to do a major repair to an exterior staircase for just 8k because the building was small and we had a good relationship with the company that did the repair (they are our usual contractor and numerous owners have used them for interior renovations, so they gave us a very fair rate in order to maintain that relationship, which has been lucrative for them).

Yes, a large building can have repairs in the millions. Though even with that, if you have 200 owners, that cost is spread across all units and may not be as onerous. The main reason I prefer small buildings is that they tend to have owner-run boards rather than outsourcing to management companies, which you really have to watch to prevent them from nickel and diming you over everything. I also don't want to pay for front desk staff, elevators, pools, or gyms, all of which can push your fees up very high.

But it's a choice. No one is required to buy a condo in a large building with high fees.

I live in a 150 unit complex of condos, we have a board consisting of elected owners with new elections every year and we also have a management company that implements many of the board's decisions. It's not typically an either or scenario.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depending on the county part of the fees have to go in a reserve fund that has to have thousands in it. They have to have enough to pay the management company, taxes to the county, roof repairs, insurance etc.

Just curious...which counties have this regulation?

The state is Maryland now requires all condos to fully fund their reserves. The amount is determined by the reserve study which has to be done by a qualified reserve specialist. Reserves are for the replacement of the physical components of a building usually over $5000. You cannot use reserves to pay management fees, taxes or insurance. Those are operating expenses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Insurance is super cheap on condos compared to townhouses

The individual unit policies can be inexpensive.

The master policies for the buildings are not. Those costs are built into the assessments.

[Anonymous]

It feels like a scam , the fees never add up to the real maintenance cost it's always way over

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It feels like a scam , the fees never add up to the real maintenance cost it's always way over

Who would be perpetrating this scam? Where do you think the dollars are going? Every penny is accounted for in annual budget statements and reports to the owners, and a board of owners (that could include you if you volunteered) is running things. If the board doesn’t like the management company they have hired to implement things like distribution of parking passes, they can switch to a different company.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It feels like a scam , the fees never add up to the real maintenance cost it's always way over

Who would be perpetrating this scam? Where do you think the dollars are going? Every penny is accounted for in annual budget statements and reports to the owners, and a board of owners (that could include you if you volunteered) is running things. If the board doesn’t like the management company they have hired to implement things like distribution of parking passes, they can switch to a different company.

They are often going to useless projects or unnecessary or counterproductive repairs. It's not literally a scam. However, those fees are often exorbitant, they can be several thousand dollars each month.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It feels like a scam , the fees never add up to the real maintenance cost it's always way over

Who would be perpetrating this scam? Where do you think the dollars are going? Every penny is accounted for in annual budget statements and reports to the owners, and a board of owners (that could include you if you volunteered) is running things. If the board doesn’t like the management company they have hired to implement things like distribution of parking passes, they can switch to a different company.

They are often going to useless projects or unnecessary or counterproductive repairs. It's not literally a scam. However, those fees are often exorbitant, they can be several thousand dollars each month.

Owners get the budgets to review before they are approved. Speak up if think there are useless projects. The equipment in buildings is much harder to maintain than in the past and parts are more expensive.

[Anonymous]

My coop fee is $1,100/month.

Includes water, heat, gas, property taxes, and building upkeep.

I've never had to pay for: gardening/ landscape services, tree maintenance, a roof, a water heater, an electrical repair or wiring upgrade, anything but minor plumbing, repair or maintenance to a driveway or external building structures.

I think the costs are more visible in a condo/coop, but I'm not sure if they are actually smaller. How much per year do you budget for housing maintenance if you have to do it yourself?

[Anonymous]

If condo needs a new roof or new landscaping or new fence is needed, its divided between all units. In my single family home, its all my responsibility.

[Anonymous]

To each, its own. Pick what suits you. However, its good to have different options available for different lifestyles, budgets, phases of life etc.

A young adult in their 20's or a busy couple in their 30's may need a low maintenance and small space near work and urban attractions. In their 40's, they may need a bigger home in a top school district. In their middle age, they may become empty nesters who want to have a small home with some space for college kids to crash during summers. In their retirement they may want to be back in their urban condo and have everything nearby. Housing needs and budgets change several times during a life span.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It feels like a scam , the fees never add up to the real maintenance cost it's always way over

Who would be perpetrating this scam? Where do you think the dollars are going? Every penny is accounted for in annual budget statements and reports to the owners, and a board of owners (that could include you if you volunteered) is running things. If the board doesn’t like the management company they have hired to implement things like distribution of parking passes, they can switch to a different company.

They are often going to useless projects or unnecessary or counterproductive repairs. It's not literally a scam. However, those fees are often exorbitant, they can be several thousand dollars each month.

Owners get the budgets to review before they are approved. Speak up if think there are useless projects. The equipment in buildings is much harder to maintain than in the past and parts are more expensive.

you obviously sit on a HOA board. people speak up at those meetings all the time. but the board does their thing anyways. yes, if you don't like it, you can run for a seat etc. but that is a lot of hassle and the question, why is all that necessary? why are board prone to waste and poor decision-making? no wonder only a very small fraction of americans (less than 10%) owns a condo (compared to SFH and townhouse). people hate this crap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My coop fee is $1,100/month.

Includes water, heat, gas, property taxes, and building upkeep.

I've never had to pay for: gardening/ landscape services, tree maintenance, a roof, a water heater, an electrical repair or wiring upgrade, anything but minor plumbing, repair or maintenance to a driveway or external building structures.

I think the costs are more visible in a condo/coop, but I'm not sure if they are actually smaller. How much per year do you budget for housing maintenance if you have to do it yourself?

Massive difference between a co-op and a condo. Massive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It feels like a scam , the fees never add up to the real maintenance cost it's always way over

Who would be perpetrating this scam? Where do you think the dollars are going? Every penny is accounted for in annual budget statements and reports to the owners, and a board of owners (that could include you if you volunteered) is running things. If the board doesn’t like the management company they have hired to implement things like distribution of parking passes, they can switch to a different company.

They are often going to useless projects or unnecessary or counterproductive repairs. It's not literally a scam. However, those fees are often exorbitant, they can be several thousand dollars each month.

Owners get the budgets to review before they are approved. Speak up if think there are useless projects. The equipment in buildings is much harder to maintain than in the past and parts are more expensive.

you obviously sit on a HOA board. people speak up at those meetings all the time. but the board does their thing anyways. yes, if you don't like it, you can run for a seat etc. but that is a lot of hassle and the question, why is all that necessary? why are board prone to waste and poor decision-making? no wonder only a very small fraction of americans (less than 10%) owns a condo (compared to SFH and townhouse). people hate this crap.

Np. Or it’s someone who’s familiar with the actual costs of hiring licensed and insured companies for maintenance work, having additional parts purchased and on hand due to ongoing delays and shortages, and obtaining good insurance due to the current climate. If you neglect any of these—and they are expensive—the association and residents will likely end up dealing with a much more complicated situation down the line, and then the special assessments could become burdensome and even untenable.

[Anonymous]

It seems that far and away the biggest reason that condo fees might look high relative to amenities/expenses would be that there was an attempt underway to build up adequate reserves. That’s why you want to buy in a condo complex that has plenty of reserves: it’s highly unlikely that you will find yourself paying for reserves to be built up over the course of years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If condo needs a new roof or new landscaping or new fence is needed, its divided between all units. In my single family home, its all my responsibility.

How does the exterior maintenance/repair/replacement work on townhouses? Is the owner responsible?