What do we think about this new HOPE scale?

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't care about whether AAP exists or not or whether centers are an option or not. I just want a system where kids who are above grade level in a subject can receive above grade level instruction in that subject.

AAP doesn't seem to work correctly in that manner, since a lot of kids who are above grade level aren't being admitted, and a lot of kids, even from the same school, who are on or below grade level are being admitted.

The HOPE scale seems like more proof that FCPS can't decide whether AAP is a gifted program, an above grade level instructional program, or a talent development program. It's trying to wear all 3 hats and is doing it quite poorly.


A lot of kids = a handful

I don't know exactly how it works now but before they changed everything, most kids were where you would expect them to be, the smart/bright/gifted kids in AAP and the regular kids in gen ed. It's only on DCUM where the gifted kids all get left out and the undeserving are admitted.

Wrong. Back in the day, when test scores mattered the most, your viewpoint would be correct. Now, when GBRS is 4 times more important than any test score, the above grade level kids with high cogats who are viewed by their second grade teacher as quite academically advanced but not especially creative or motivated don't get admitted to AAP.

The HOPE scale looks like a big improvement in this respect, since there are more academic categories and fewer fluff categories.


I appreciate that everyone dislikes standardized testing and I appreciate that standardized testing has its problems, but I still have yet to see a better system for evaluating students. In other words, standardized testing is like capitalism - there are a lot of bad incentives that it creates but it's the best of a bad bunch.

Introducing all these other factors (e.g., HOPE/GBRS), while well-intentioned, is muddying the waters. It is breeding resentment and suspicion and creating the conditions for a backlash, as the evaluation process becomes more and more indecipherable. At this point, no one can say with any certainty what the criteria are for getting admitted to AAP and so you have these long, convoluted discussion forums where frankly no one really knows anything. On top of that, the evaluation process is cloaked in so many committees and processes (e.g., school committee, centralized committee) so that no one can be held accountable.

I think everyone would be better off with having a simple and straightforward admissions process where anyone can get in, so long as they meet some objective, minimum standard. Having an objective, minimum standard will allow for anyone to get in, if they put in some effort. I know some will complain that that will water down AAP, which is a fair and correct criticism. However, AAP is already being watered down through this indecipherable evaluation process, so I don't think this really changes things. This also has the benefit of eliminating the anxiety and resentment of this admissions process and eliminating unnecessary workloads for teachers and administrators.


Very much agree with this. Just make the process simple and transparent. Additionally, get rid of the complicated center AAP program and make local level 4 AAP be available at all elementary schools. This further simplifies things for parents and students because it makes it easier for kids to switch in and/or out of an aap class if the teacher observes they are not doing well or not a good fit. This all or nothing attitude, i.e you either don't get in, or you're in through the end of middle school, is quite ridiculous and introduces many superficial areas of focus for both teachers and students/parents, cutting valuable time that could be used for learning.


The AAP cohort was life-changing for one of my DC's and good for the other. Why do you want to take that away from other kids?


The current school board wants to take away AAP in order to close the racial achievement gap from the top down.

It is easier to take away opportunities for advanced learners than to raise up the kids who underperform academiy.


I think only two want to remove aap - Anderson and Omeish. I haven’t heard the others saying that. Thankfully, Omeish is almost gone but unfortunately Anderson will remain.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't care about whether AAP exists or not or whether centers are an option or not. I just want a system where kids who are above grade level in a subject can receive above grade level instruction in that subject.

AAP doesn't seem to work correctly in that manner, since a lot of kids who are above grade level aren't being admitted, and a lot of kids, even from the same school, who are on or below grade level are being admitted.

The HOPE scale seems like more proof that FCPS can't decide whether AAP is a gifted program, an above grade level instructional program, or a talent development program. It's trying to wear all 3 hats and is doing it quite poorly.


A lot of kids = a handful

I don't know exactly how it works now but before they changed everything, most kids were where you would expect them to be, the smart/bright/gifted kids in AAP and the regular kids in gen ed. It's only on DCUM where the gifted kids all get left out and the undeserving are admitted.

Wrong. Back in the day, when test scores mattered the most, your viewpoint would be correct. Now, when GBRS is 4 times more important than any test score, the above grade level kids with high cogats who are viewed by their second grade teacher as quite academically advanced but not especially creative or motivated don't get admitted to AAP.

The HOPE scale looks like a big improvement in this respect, since there are more academic categories and fewer fluff categories.


I appreciate that everyone dislikes standardized testing and I appreciate that standardized testing has its problems, but I still have yet to see a better system for evaluating students. In other words, standardized testing is like capitalism - there are a lot of bad incentives that it creates but it's the best of a bad bunch.

Introducing all these other factors (e.g., HOPE/GBRS), while well-intentioned, is muddying the waters. It is breeding resentment and suspicion and creating the conditions for a backlash, as the evaluation process becomes more and more indecipherable. At this point, no one can say with any certainty what the criteria are for getting admitted to AAP and so you have these long, convoluted discussion forums where frankly no one really knows anything. On top of that, the evaluation process is cloaked in so many committees and processes (e.g., school committee, centralized committee) so that no one can be held accountable.

I think everyone would be better off with having a simple and straightforward admissions process where anyone can get in, so long as they meet some objective, minimum standard. Having an objective, minimum standard will allow for anyone to get in, if they put in some effort. I know some will complain that that will water down AAP, which is a fair and correct criticism. However, AAP is already being watered down through this indecipherable evaluation process, so I don't think this really changes things. This also has the benefit of eliminating the anxiety and resentment of this admissions process and eliminating unnecessary workloads for teachers and administrators.


Very much agree with this. Just make the process simple and transparent. Additionally, get rid of the complicated center AAP program and make local level 4 AAP be available at all elementary schools. This further simplifies things for parents and students because it makes it easier for kids to switch in and/or out of an aap class if the teacher observes they are not doing well or not a good fit. This all or nothing attitude, i.e you either don't get in, or you're in through the end of middle school, is quite ridiculous and introduces many superficial areas of focus for both teachers and students/parents, cutting valuable time that could be used for learning.


The AAP cohort was life-changing for one of my DC's and good for the other. Why do you want to take that away from other kids?


The current school board wants to take away AAP in order to close the racial achievement gap from the top down.

It is easier to take away opportunities for advanced learners than to raise up the kids who underperform academiy.


True, but this won't since AAP isn't a gifted program. It's just a way to segregate students based on whether families prioritize education.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't care about whether AAP exists or not or whether centers are an option or not. I just want a system where kids who are above grade level in a subject can receive above grade level instruction in that subject.

AAP doesn't seem to work correctly in that manner, since a lot of kids who are above grade level aren't being admitted, and a lot of kids, even from the same school, who are on or below grade level are being admitted.

The HOPE scale seems like more proof that FCPS can't decide whether AAP is a gifted program, an above grade level instructional program, or a talent development program. It's trying to wear all 3 hats and is doing it quite poorly.


A lot of kids = a handful

I don't know exactly how it works now but before they changed everything, most kids were where you would expect them to be, the smart/bright/gifted kids in AAP and the regular kids in gen ed. It's only on DCUM where the gifted kids all get left out and the undeserving are admitted.

Wrong. Back in the day, when test scores mattered the most, your viewpoint would be correct. Now, when GBRS is 4 times more important than any test score, the above grade level kids with high cogats who are viewed by their second grade teacher as quite academically advanced but not especially creative or motivated don't get admitted to AAP.

The HOPE scale looks like a big improvement in this respect, since there are more academic categories and fewer fluff categories.


I appreciate that everyone dislikes standardized testing and I appreciate that standardized testing has its problems, but I still have yet to see a better system for evaluating students. In other words, standardized testing is like capitalism - there are a lot of bad incentives that it creates but it's the best of a bad bunch.

Introducing all these other factors (e.g., HOPE/GBRS), while well-intentioned, is muddying the waters. It is breeding resentment and suspicion and creating the conditions for a backlash, as the evaluation process becomes more and more indecipherable. At this point, no one can say with any certainty what the criteria are for getting admitted to AAP and so you have these long, convoluted discussion forums where frankly no one really knows anything. On top of that, the evaluation process is cloaked in so many committees and processes (e.g., school committee, centralized committee) so that no one can be held accountable.

I think everyone would be better off with having a simple and straightforward admissions process where anyone can get in, so long as they meet some objective, minimum standard. Having an objective, minimum standard will allow for anyone to get in, if they put in some effort. I know some will complain that that will water down AAP, which is a fair and correct criticism. However, AAP is already being watered down through this indecipherable evaluation process, so I don't think this really changes things. This also has the benefit of eliminating the anxiety and resentment of this admissions process and eliminating unnecessary workloads for teachers and administrators.


Very much agree with this. Just make the process simple and transparent. Additionally, get rid of the complicated center AAP program and make local level 4 AAP be available at all elementary schools. This further simplifies things for parents and students because it makes it easier for kids to switch in and/or out of an aap class if the teacher observes they are not doing well or not a good fit. This all or nothing attitude, i.e you either don't get in, or you're in through the end of middle school, is quite ridiculous and introduces many superficial areas of focus for both teachers and students/parents, cutting valuable time that could be used for learning.


The AAP cohort was life-changing for one of my DC's and good for the other. Why do you want to take that away from other kids?


The current school board wants to take away AAP in order to close the racial achievement gap from the top down.

It is easier to take away opportunities for advanced learners than to raise up the kids who underperform academiy.


I think only two want to remove aap - Anderson and Omeish. I haven’t heard the others saying that. Thankfully, Omeish is almost gone but unfortunately Anderson will remain.

Equity idiots rallied Omeish as the best for past four years, and suddenly dump her for she is unpopular today, when she has been the same back then as she is today. Who cares about anderson and omeish, the entire democratic board is against anything merit, especially AAP.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't care about whether AAP exists or not or whether centers are an option or not. I just want a system where kids who are above grade level in a subject can receive above grade level instruction in that subject.

AAP doesn't seem to work correctly in that manner, since a lot of kids who are above grade level aren't being admitted, and a lot of kids, even from the same school, who are on or below grade level are being admitted.

The HOPE scale seems like more proof that FCPS can't decide whether AAP is a gifted program, an above grade level instructional program, or a talent development program. It's trying to wear all 3 hats and is doing it quite poorly.


A lot of kids = a handful

I don't know exactly how it works now but before they changed everything, most kids were where you would expect them to be, the smart/bright/gifted kids in AAP and the regular kids in gen ed. It's only on DCUM where the gifted kids all get left out and the undeserving are admitted.

Wrong. Back in the day, when test scores mattered the most, your viewpoint would be correct. Now, when GBRS is 4 times more important than any test score, the above grade level kids with high cogats who are viewed by their second grade teacher as quite academically advanced but not especially creative or motivated don't get admitted to AAP.

The HOPE scale looks like a big improvement in this respect, since there are more academic categories and fewer fluff categories.


I appreciate that everyone dislikes standardized testing and I appreciate that standardized testing has its problems, but I still have yet to see a better system for evaluating students. In other words, standardized testing is like capitalism - there are a lot of bad incentives that it creates but it's the best of a bad bunch.

Introducing all these other factors (e.g., HOPE/GBRS), while well-intentioned, is muddying the waters. It is breeding resentment and suspicion and creating the conditions for a backlash, as the evaluation process becomes more and more indecipherable. At this point, no one can say with any certainty what the criteria are for getting admitted to AAP and so you have these long, convoluted discussion forums where frankly no one really knows anything. On top of that, the evaluation process is cloaked in so many committees and processes (e.g., school committee, centralized committee) so that no one can be held accountable.

I think everyone would be better off with having a simple and straightforward admissions process where anyone can get in, so long as they meet some objective, minimum standard. Having an objective, minimum standard will allow for anyone to get in, if they put in some effort. I know some will complain that that will water down AAP, which is a fair and correct criticism. However, AAP is already being watered down through this indecipherable evaluation process, so I don't think this really changes things. This also has the benefit of eliminating the anxiety and resentment of this admissions process and eliminating unnecessary workloads for teachers and administrators.


Very much agree with this. Just make the process simple and transparent. Additionally, get rid of the complicated center AAP program and make local level 4 AAP be available at all elementary schools. This further simplifies things for parents and students because it makes it easier for kids to switch in and/or out of an aap class if the teacher observes they are not doing well or not a good fit. This all or nothing attitude, i.e you either don't get in, or you're in through the end of middle school, is quite ridiculous and introduces many superficial areas of focus for both teachers and students/parents, cutting valuable time that could be used for learning.


The AAP cohort was life-changing for one of my DC's and good for the other. Why do you want to take that away from other kids?


The current school board wants to take away AAP in order to close the racial achievement gap from the top down.

It is easier to take away opportunities for advanced learners than to raise up the kids who underperform academiy.


True, but this won't since AAP isn't a gifted program. It's just a way to segregate students based on whether families prioritize education.


You're thinking of charter schools. That's not what AAP is.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Very much agree with this. Just make the process simple and transparent. Additionally, get rid of the complicated center AAP program and make local level 4 AAP be available at all elementary schools. This further simplifies things for parents and students because it makes it easier for kids to switch in and/or out of an aap class if the teacher observes they are not doing well or not a good fit. This all or nothing attitude, i.e you either don't get in, or you're in through the end of middle school, is quite ridiculous and introduces many superficial areas of focus for both teachers and students/parents, cutting valuable time that could be used for learning.

But the optics of physical proximity of two classrooms one for level 4 aap and other for gen ed would be a problem, especially with equity looneys walking around with a racial lens. They'll walk into the advanced level 4 math class and take a count of students by race, and pull out the race card when majority of students in their view are the wrong kind of minority. Right next door, would be the gen ed class filled with kids who they claim are forcefully being kept out of advanced class next door. To reiterate the racial case, they draw parallels to decades old photos of separate water fountains placed next to each other.

racial lens is the root cause of the division but politicians love it, and lazy like the victimhood message
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't care about whether AAP exists or not or whether centers are an option or not. I just want a system where kids who are above grade level in a subject can receive above grade level instruction in that subject.

AAP doesn't seem to work correctly in that manner, since a lot of kids who are above grade level aren't being admitted, and a lot of kids, even from the same school, who are on or below grade level are being admitted.

The HOPE scale seems like more proof that FCPS can't decide whether AAP is a gifted program, an above grade level instructional program, or a talent development program. It's trying to wear all 3 hats and is doing it quite poorly.


A lot of kids = a handful

I don't know exactly how it works now but before they changed everything, most kids were where you would expect them to be, the smart/bright/gifted kids in AAP and the regular kids in gen ed. It's only on DCUM where the gifted kids all get left out and the undeserving are admitted.

Wrong. Back in the day, when test scores mattered the most, your viewpoint would be correct. Now, when GBRS is 4 times more important than any test score, the above grade level kids with high cogats who are viewed by their second grade teacher as quite academically advanced but not especially creative or motivated don't get admitted to AAP.

The HOPE scale looks like a big improvement in this respect, since there are more academic categories and fewer fluff categories.


I appreciate that everyone dislikes standardized testing and I appreciate that standardized testing has its problems, but I still have yet to see a better system for evaluating students. In other words, standardized testing is like capitalism - there are a lot of bad incentives that it creates but it's the best of a bad bunch.

Introducing all these other factors (e.g., HOPE/GBRS), while well-intentioned, is muddying the waters. It is breeding resentment and suspicion and creating the conditions for a backlash, as the evaluation process becomes more and more indecipherable. At this point, no one can say with any certainty what the criteria are for getting admitted to AAP and so you have these long, convoluted discussion forums where frankly no one really knows anything. On top of that, the evaluation process is cloaked in so many committees and processes (e.g., school committee, centralized committee) so that no one can be held accountable.

I think everyone would be better off with having a simple and straightforward admissions process where anyone can get in, so long as they meet some objective, minimum standard. Having an objective, minimum standard will allow for anyone to get in, if they put in some effort. I know some will complain that that will water down AAP, which is a fair and correct criticism. However, AAP is already being watered down through this indecipherable evaluation process, so I don't think this really changes things. This also has the benefit of eliminating the anxiety and resentment of this admissions process and eliminating unnecessary workloads for teachers and administrators.


Very much agree with this. Just make the process simple and transparent. Additionally, get rid of the complicated center AAP program and make local level 4 AAP be available at all elementary schools. This further simplifies things for parents and students because it makes it easier for kids to switch in and/or out of an aap class if the teacher observes they are not doing well or not a good fit. This all or nothing attitude, i.e you either don't get in, or you're in through the end of middle school, is quite ridiculous and introduces many superficial areas of focus for both teachers and students/parents, cutting valuable time that could be used for learning.


The AAP cohort was life-changing for one of my DC's and good for the other. Why do you want to take that away from other kids?


The current school board wants to take away AAP in order to close the racial achievement gap from the top down.

It is easier to take away opportunities for advanced learners than to raise up the kids who underperform academiy.


I think only two want to remove aap - Anderson and Omeish. I haven’t heard the others saying that. Thankfully, Omeish is almost gone but unfortunately Anderson will remain.


Are they both democrats?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't care about whether AAP exists or not or whether centers are an option or not. I just want a system where kids who are above grade level in a subject can receive above grade level instruction in that subject.

AAP doesn't seem to work correctly in that manner, since a lot of kids who are above grade level aren't being admitted, and a lot of kids, even from the same school, who are on or below grade level are being admitted.

The HOPE scale seems like more proof that FCPS can't decide whether AAP is a gifted program, an above grade level instructional program, or a talent development program. It's trying to wear all 3 hats and is doing it quite poorly.


A lot of kids = a handful

I don't know exactly how it works now but before they changed everything, most kids were where you would expect them to be, the smart/bright/gifted kids in AAP and the regular kids in gen ed. It's only on DCUM where the gifted kids all get left out and the undeserving are admitted.

Wrong. Back in the day, when test scores mattered the most, your viewpoint would be correct. Now, when GBRS is 4 times more important than any test score, the above grade level kids with high cogats who are viewed by their second grade teacher as quite academically advanced but not especially creative or motivated don't get admitted to AAP.

The HOPE scale looks like a big improvement in this respect, since there are more academic categories and fewer fluff categories.


I appreciate that everyone dislikes standardized testing and I appreciate that standardized testing has its problems, but I still have yet to see a better system for evaluating students. In other words, standardized testing is like capitalism - there are a lot of bad incentives that it creates but it's the best of a bad bunch.

Introducing all these other factors (e.g., HOPE/GBRS), while well-intentioned, is muddying the waters. It is breeding resentment and suspicion and creating the conditions for a backlash, as the evaluation process becomes more and more indecipherable. At this point, no one can say with any certainty what the criteria are for getting admitted to AAP and so you have these long, convoluted discussion forums where frankly no one really knows anything. On top of that, the evaluation process is cloaked in so many committees and processes (e.g., school committee, centralized committee) so that no one can be held accountable.

I think everyone would be better off with having a simple and straightforward admissions process where anyone can get in, so long as they meet some objective, minimum standard. Having an objective, minimum standard will allow for anyone to get in, if they put in some effort. I know some will complain that that will water down AAP, which is a fair and correct criticism. However, AAP is already being watered down through this indecipherable evaluation process, so I don't think this really changes things. This also has the benefit of eliminating the anxiety and resentment of this admissions process and eliminating unnecessary workloads for teachers and administrators.


Very much agree with this. Just make the process simple and transparent. Additionally, get rid of the complicated center AAP program and make local level 4 AAP be available at all elementary schools. This further simplifies things for parents and students because it makes it easier for kids to switch in and/or out of an aap class if the teacher observes they are not doing well or not a good fit. This all or nothing attitude, i.e you either don't get in, or you're in through the end of middle school, is quite ridiculous and introduces many superficial areas of focus for both teachers and students/parents, cutting valuable time that could be used for learning.


The AAP cohort was life-changing for one of my DC's and good for the other. Why do you want to take that away from other kids?


The current school board wants to take away AAP in order to close the racial achievement gap from the top down.

It is easier to take away opportunities for advanced learners than to raise up the kids who underperform academiy.


I think only two want to remove aap - Anderson and Omeish. I haven’t heard the others saying that. Thankfully, Omeish is almost gone but unfortunately Anderson will remain.


This new HOPE scale appears to be a major effort to water-down AAP, and I doubt only 2 BMs support it).
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Seems like a way to weed out 2E students.


Nope it sounds like a good way to weed out kids whose parents put them in Mathnasium/RSM/Kumon and do test prep for NNAT and CoGAT.
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