12th grade math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think the choice is AP Stats versus AP Calc. I think the choice we are talking about is AP stats instead of Multivariable.

Then it’s clearly AP Stats over Multivariable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand how a third of the senior class is in multivariable or otherwise in their second year of calc (having taken two years Calc AB and being in BC).

What is an ordinary bright non-STEM student supposed to do? I guess from the posts above AP Stats i the only option?

Stats is a great option for most kids

unless they want to attend anything other than community college

I’m not sure where the argument that AP stats is for kids weak in math is coming from, or that AP Calculus is the harder class. If you look through the contents of each course, AP stats is more about contextual application of concepts, arguably harder than the straightforward applications in calculus.

Another point, there are about half as many students getting a 5 in AP Stats than those getting a 5 in AP Calculus, so clearly it’s not a walk in the park.

I agree that if a student can take only one of them, it should be AP Calculus, particularly if interested in STEM, but I’m honestly puzzled on why AP Stats is considered easy, or that its meant for weaker kids in math. I think it’s a different way of thinking that can trip many “good” students, and it’s testing understanding deeper than any other math class in high school.

There are colleges who flat out will not accept your kid if their highest math level is AP Stats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand how a third of the senior class is in multivariable or otherwise in their second year of calc (having taken two years Calc AB and being in BC).

What is an ordinary bright non-STEM student supposed to do? I guess from the posts above AP Stats i the only option?

Stats is a great option for most kids

unless they want to attend anything other than community college

I’m not sure where the argument that AP stats is for kids weak in math is coming from, or that AP Calculus is the harder class. If you look through the contents of each course, AP stats is more about contextual application of concepts, arguably harder than the straightforward applications in calculus.

Another point, there are about half as many students getting a 5 in AP Stats than those getting a 5 in AP Calculus, so clearly it’s not a walk in the park.

I agree that if a student can take only one of them, it should be AP Calculus, particularly if interested in STEM, but I’m honestly puzzled on why AP Stats is considered easy, or that its meant for weaker kids in math. I think it’s a different way of thinking that can trip many “good” students, and it’s testing understanding deeper than any other math class in high school.

There are colleges who flat out will not accept your kid if their highest math level is AP Stats.

Serious question. So is Calculus pretty much required these days to get into let's say UMD?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand how a third of the senior class is in multivariable or otherwise in their second year of calc (having taken two years Calc AB and being in BC).

What is an ordinary bright non-STEM student supposed to do? I guess from the posts above AP Stats i the only option?

Stats is a great option for most kids

unless they want to attend anything other than community college

I’m not sure where the argument that AP stats is for kids weak in math is coming from, or that AP Calculus is the harder class. If you look through the contents of each course, AP stats is more about contextual application of concepts, arguably harder than the straightforward applications in calculus.

Another point, there are about half as many students getting a 5 in AP Stats than those getting a 5 in AP Calculus, so clearly it’s not a walk in the park.

I agree that if a student can take only one of them, it should be AP Calculus, particularly if interested in STEM, but I’m honestly puzzled on why AP Stats is considered easy, or that its meant for weaker kids in math. I think it’s a different way of thinking that can trip many “good” students, and it’s testing understanding deeper than any other math class in high school.

There are colleges who flat out will not accept your kid if their highest math level is AP Stats.

Serious question. So is Calculus pretty much required these days to get into let's say UMD?

In general, these you must take Calc BC types of posts are about STEM/CS majors in the top colleges. there is some sort of MoCo competitiveness factor at UMD, but the requirements for UMD Math are:

¨4 Years of math, including Algebra I, Geometry & Algebra II

If you complete Algebra II prior to your final year, you must complete the 4-year math requirement by taking a course that utilizes non-trivial algebra, such as Trigonometry, Precalculus, Calculus, Statistics, College Algebra.¨

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand how a third of the senior class is in multivariable or otherwise in their second year of calc (having taken two years Calc AB and being in BC).

What is an ordinary bright non-STEM student supposed to do? I guess from the posts above AP Stats i the only option?

Stats is a great option for most kids

unless they want to attend anything other than community college

I’m not sure where the argument that AP stats is for kids weak in math is coming from, or that AP Calculus is the harder class. If you look through the contents of each course, AP stats is more about contextual application of concepts, arguably harder than the straightforward applications in calculus.

Another point, there are about half as many students getting a 5 in AP Stats than those getting a 5 in AP Calculus, so clearly it’s not a walk in the park.

I agree that if a student can take only one of them, it should be AP Calculus, particularly if interested in STEM, but I’m honestly puzzled on why AP Stats is considered easy, or that its meant for weaker kids in math. I think it’s a different way of thinking that can trip many “good” students, and it’s testing understanding deeper than any other math class in high school.

There are colleges who flat out will not accept your kid if their highest math level is AP Stats.

Can you name them? Please point to that school that doesn’t have Calculus as an undergraduate offering because all incoming freshmen students took it.

You didn’t read my post carefully, I agree one should choose Calculus if only able to take one of them, mostly because it is a prerequisite for many other classes and degrees.

That doesn’t mean it’s “harder” than Statistics or that Statistics is for students weak in math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand how a third of the senior class is in multivariable or otherwise in their second year of calc (having taken two years Calc AB and being in BC).

What is an ordinary bright non-STEM student supposed to do? I guess from the posts above AP Stats i the only option?

Stats is a great option for most kids

unless they want to attend anything other than community college

I’m not sure where the argument that AP stats is for kids weak in math is coming from, or that AP Calculus is the harder class. If you look through the contents of each course, AP stats is more about contextual application of concepts, arguably harder than the straightforward applications in calculus.

Another point, there are about half as many students getting a 5 in AP Stats than those getting a 5 in AP Calculus, so clearly it’s not a walk in the park.

I agree that if a student can take only one of them, it should be AP Calculus, particularly if interested in STEM, but I’m honestly puzzled on why AP Stats is considered easy, or that its meant for weaker kids in math. I think it’s a different way of thinking that can trip many “good” students, and it’s testing understanding deeper than any other math class in high school.

There are colleges who flat out will not accept your kid if their highest math level is AP Stats.

What do colleges think of a child who takes AP CAlc B/C and then stats? The highest level would still be Calc BC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand how a third of the senior class is in multivariable or otherwise in their second year of calc (having taken two years Calc AB and being in BC).

What is an ordinary bright non-STEM student supposed to do? I guess from the posts above AP Stats i the only option?

Stats is a great option for most kids

unless they want to attend anything other than community college

I’m not sure where the argument that AP stats is for kids weak in math is coming from, or that AP Calculus is the harder class. If you look through the contents of each course, AP stats is more about contextual application of concepts, arguably harder than the straightforward applications in calculus.

Another point, there are about half as many students getting a 5 in AP Stats than those getting a 5 in AP Calculus, so clearly it’s not a walk in the park.

I agree that if a student can take only one of them, it should be AP Calculus, particularly if interested in STEM, but I’m honestly puzzled on why AP Stats is considered easy, or that its meant for weaker kids in math. I think it’s a different way of thinking that can trip many “good” students, and it’s testing understanding deeper than any other math class in high school.

There are colleges who flat out will not accept your kid if their highest math level is AP Stats.

Serious question. So is Calculus pretty much required these days to get into let's say UMD?

In general, these you must take Calc BC types of posts are about STEM/CS majors in the top colleges. there is some sort of MoCo competitiveness factor at UMD, but the requirements for UMD Math are:

¨4 Years of math, including Algebra I, Geometry & Algebra II

If you complete Algebra II prior to your final year, you must complete the 4-year math requirement by taking a course that utilizes non-trivial algebra, such as Trigonometry, Precalculus, Calculus, Statistics, College Algebra.¨

Thanks. Is there a sequence one would recommend for a non stem student who will likely major in business? Kid is taking precalculus as a sophomore and she doesn't enjoy it at all. I was wondering if its reasonable to do AP statistics junior yr and then AP calc senior year or some other class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand how a third of the senior class is in multivariable or otherwise in their second year of calc (having taken two years Calc AB and being in BC).

What is an ordinary bright non-STEM student supposed to do? I guess from the posts above AP Stats i the only option?

Stats is a great option for most kids

unless they want to attend anything other than community college

I’m not sure where the argument that AP stats is for kids weak in math is coming from, or that AP Calculus is the harder class. If you look through the contents of each course, AP stats is more about contextual application of concepts, arguably harder than the straightforward applications in calculus.

Another point, there are about half as many students getting a 5 in AP Stats than those getting a 5 in AP Calculus, so clearly it’s not a walk in the park.

I agree that if a student can take only one of them, it should be AP Calculus, particularly if interested in STEM, but I’m honestly puzzled on why AP Stats is considered easy, or that its meant for weaker kids in math. I think it’s a different way of thinking that can trip many “good” students, and it’s testing understanding deeper than any other math class in high school.

There are colleges who flat out will not accept your kid if their highest math level is AP Stats.

Serious question. So is Calculus pretty much required these days to get into let's say UMD?

In general, these you must take Calc BC types of posts are about STEM/CS majors in the top colleges. there is some sort of MoCo competitiveness factor at UMD, but the requirements for UMD Math are:

¨4 Years of math, including Algebra I, Geometry & Algebra II

If you complete Algebra II prior to your final year, you must complete the 4-year math requirement by taking a course that utilizes non-trivial algebra, such as Trigonometry, Precalculus, Calculus, Statistics, College Algebra.¨

Thanks. Is there a sequence one would recommend for a non stem student who will likely major in business? Kid is taking precalculus as a sophomore and she doesn't enjoy it at all. I was wondering if its reasonable to do AP statistics junior yr and then AP calc senior year or some other class.

I think it is probably not the best course to separate Precalc from Calc because important material may be forgotten. Our school also has calc with applications (non-AP calculus class). Maybe that is a fine fit, and follow-up with AP Stat in senior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand how a third of the senior class is in multivariable or otherwise in their second year of calc (having taken two years Calc AB and being in BC).

What is an ordinary bright non-STEM student supposed to do? I guess from the posts above AP Stats i the only option?

Stats is a great option for most kids

unless they want to attend anything other than community college

I’m not sure where the argument that AP stats is for kids weak in math is coming from, or that AP Calculus is the harder class. If you look through the contents of each course, AP stats is more about contextual application of concepts, arguably harder than the straightforward applications in calculus.

Another point, there are about half as many students getting a 5 in AP Stats than those getting a 5 in AP Calculus, so clearly it’s not a walk in the park.

I agree that if a student can take only one of them, it should be AP Calculus, particularly if interested in STEM, but I’m honestly puzzled on why AP Stats is considered easy, or that its meant for weaker kids in math. I think it’s a different way of thinking that can trip many “good” students, and it’s testing understanding deeper than any other math class in high school.

There are colleges who flat out will not accept your kid if their highest math level is AP Stats.

OK, maybe CalTech or MIT. But those kids aren't stopping at AP Stats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand how a third of the senior class is in multivariable or otherwise in their second year of calc (having taken two years Calc AB and being in BC).

What is an ordinary bright non-STEM student supposed to do? I guess from the posts above AP Stats i the only option?

Stats is a great option for most kids

unless they want to attend anything other than community college

I’m not sure where the argument that AP stats is for kids weak in math is coming from, or that AP Calculus is the harder class. If you look through the contents of each course, AP stats is more about contextual application of concepts, arguably harder than the straightforward applications in calculus.

Another point, there are about half as many students getting a 5 in AP Stats than those getting a 5 in AP Calculus, so clearly it’s not a walk in the park.

I agree that if a student can take only one of them, it should be AP Calculus, particularly if interested in STEM, but I’m honestly puzzled on why AP Stats is considered easy, or that its meant for weaker kids in math. I think it’s a different way of thinking that can trip many “good” students, and it’s testing understanding deeper than any other math class in high school.

There are colleges who flat out will not accept your kid if their highest math level is AP Stats.

Yeah, not really. People make these claims but in reality are clueless.

Stanford: four years of rigorous mathematics incorporating a solid grounding in fundamental skills (algebra, geometry, trigonometry). We also welcome additional mathematical preparation, including calculus and statistics.

Harvard: There is no single academic path we expect all students to follow, but the strongest applicants take the most rigorous secondary school curricula available to them. We receive many questions specifically about what type of math courses students should take. Applicants to Harvard should excel in a challenging high school math sequence corresponding to their educational interests and aspirations. Rigorous and relevant data science, computer science, statistics, mathematical modeling, calculus, and other advanced math classes are given equal consideration in the application process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multivariable if it is available - that's the end of the line

General education math classes include (introductory) statistics, linear algebra, differential equations, and (maybe) discrete math.

Needless to say, these classes are not the end of the line for anything.

Yes they are sweety

You may call me Dr. until we’re on friendlier terms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand how a third of the senior class is in multivariable or otherwise in their second year of calc (having taken two years Calc AB and being in BC).

What is an ordinary bright non-STEM student supposed to do? I guess from the posts above AP Stats i the only option?

Stats is a great option for most kids

unless they want to attend anything other than community college

I’m not sure where the argument that AP stats is for kids weak in math is coming from, or that AP Calculus is the harder class. If you look through the contents of each course, AP stats is more about contextual application of concepts, arguably harder than the straightforward applications in calculus.

Another point, there are about half as many students getting a 5 in AP Stats than those getting a 5 in AP Calculus, so clearly it’s not a walk in the park.

I agree that if a student can take only one of them, it should be AP Calculus, particularly if interested in STEM, but I’m honestly puzzled on why AP Stats is considered easy, or that its meant for weaker kids in math. I think it’s a different way of thinking that can trip many “good” students, and it’s testing understanding deeper than any other math class in high school.

There are colleges who flat out will not accept your kid if their highest math level is AP Stats.

OK, maybe CalTech or MIT. But those kids aren't stopping at AP Stats.

Not Caltech:

https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/caltech-admissions-drops-requirements-for-calculus-physics-chemistry-courses/

[Anonymous]

Mine is taking AP callc bc and AP stats. She did calh ab last year so we figured cal bc would be pretty easy at least for the first semester. At the time she wanted to apply in tech fields but has now changed her mind so it probably wasn’t necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand how a third of the senior class is in multivariable or otherwise in their second year of calc (having taken two years Calc AB and being in BC).

What is an ordinary bright non-STEM student supposed to do? I guess from the posts above AP Stats i the only option?

Stats is a great option for most kids

unless they want to attend anything other than community college

I’m not sure where the argument that AP stats is for kids weak in math is coming from, or that AP Calculus is the harder class. If you look through the contents of each course, AP stats is more about contextual application of concepts, arguably harder than the straightforward applications in calculus.

Another point, there are about half as many students getting a 5 in AP Stats than those getting a 5 in AP Calculus, so clearly it’s not a walk in the park.

I agree that if a student can take only one of them, it should be AP Calculus, particularly if interested in STEM, but I’m honestly puzzled on why AP Stats is considered easy, or that its meant for weaker kids in math. I think it’s a different way of thinking that can trip many “good” students, and it’s testing understanding deeper than any other math class in high school.

There are colleges who flat out will not accept your kid if their highest math level is AP Stats.

What do colleges think of a child who takes AP CAlc B/C and then stats? The highest level would still be Calc BC

It’s fine to take AP calc BC then AP Stats, or take them in reverse order. There’s zero evidence that multivariable confers any advantage over AP stats, or that AP stats is “easy” or an off ramp.

[Anonymous]

The colleges aren’t generally requiring calculus. It’s whether it’s a factor in admissions. It has been a bit a bit of a litmus test at some places but I think that’s changing and colleges are increasingly seeing the value of Stats for non-Stem majors. But it’s silly and misleading to point to the minimum requirements for a place like Harvard and pretend calc doesn’t matter. BC will likely tell you they want Calc while BU says Stats is fine. But we don’t know whether Calc will still look better than Stats at BU. Wesleyan still brags about percentage of entering class who took calc (and all three core sciences).
This is a hot button issue in admissions and raises equity concerns (half of US high schools don’t even offer calculus!).

https://feed.georgetown.edu/access-affordability/the-case-for-de-emphasizing-calculus-in-college-admissions/#:~:text=Author%20Jeffrey%20Selingo%2C%20who%20wrote,for%20students%20who%20challenge%20themselves.”