Test optional is total BS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fully agreed

Respect to Georgetown for not following suit

+1

[Anonymous]

@19:55 my daughter was one of those one and done 36 ACT. Kahn academy and the free sites were not getting her where she wanted to be so we paid for private tutoring. She is in the middle of the pack grade wise at a non big 3 all girls school in Md with a 93 unweighted average.

So yes there is grade inflation and the standardized tests do benefit those with means. We will be fine with the college outcome and everyone complaining about test optional need to STFU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test optional (unless you are a white, Indian, or Asian kid in which case 1500+ or get the f*** out)

No, it’s very clear that white and Asian and Indian kids also get admitted test optional.

Not to the most selective schools unless legacy, child of major donor, recruited athlete, etc.

Which are predominantly white kids....

Yeah, so the unhooked white kids need sky high scores if they want a chance.

Yes, but the majority of white kids at these schools are hooked!

Yes, because they are the majority of legacies, donors, athletes. And because the schools want a racially balanced class there aren’t a lot of spots for unhooked white kits. The unhooked white kids are probably at the biggest disadvantage.

[Anonymous]

More schools starting to get away from TO. Georgia, Florida schools, Texas schoos, TN to name a few.

[Anonymous]

My kid tended to aim for a 90% in his classes (did minimal work, didn't study) and got about 90-91% correct on the SAT and ACT without doing any prep (which translated to a 1490 and a 34). For him, it was an accurate reflection of his abilities.

He had a good grasp of high school math and his native language, no test anxiety (he didn't particularly care) and kind of liked the monotony of a standardized test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am reading so many posts about kids with amazing GPAs and mediocre SAT/ACT scores. In this day and age of hugely inflated GPAs it makes more sense to me me that schools would require standardized test scores to at least see how these kids perform under that sort of pressure. College is not for the faint of heart (at least not at the top 20) and kids that can’t “cut it” with decent standardized scores really are doing themselves a disservice by attending and then not performing well on the exams and evaluations. So many people saying “Billy has a 5.0 GPA and all As and 10,000 AP classes but got a 1200 on the SAT…. Should we submit that to Stanford?” It’s driving me nuts. Not to mention that the only kids submitting scores are the ones who knock it out of the park which in turn just raises the average scores of those admitted. It’s a vicious cycle.

Well, your comments are predicted on your belief that SAT scores are indicative of intelligence and/or doing well under pressure. Others believe SAT scores are more indicative of family income (i.e. ability to afford test prep; better quality schools, etc.) or simply test-taking ability (some people who are intelligent suck at test taking). That said, SAT’s are not necessarily a predictor or college success, and I think your belief about “grade inflation” is overblown. My DD did not do test prep for the SAT and got a 1350 on it. She did not wish to re-take the test because she had other things to do. Since the SAT average at her school wears high, she chose to go TO because, compared to her peers, she was below average. That said, she had a high gpa and got 5s on her hardest (i.e. STEM) AP exams. Do you believe APs are inflated, too? If so, then why not SATs? FWIW, she’s rockin’ college right now, so that supposed grade inflation is moot.

Blah blah blah.

SAT scores reflect family income... because family income reflects intelligence and doing well under pressure, and therefore SAT score reflects intelligence and doing well under pressure.

SAT scores are the strongest predictor of college success that we have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:More schools starting to get away from TO. Georgia, Florida schools, Texas schoos, TN to name a few.

All in conservative leaning states. Doesn’t mean liberal states will follow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know that the percentage of students earning a 36 on the ACT is 17x higher today than 20 years ago? If grade inflation is such a problem, than this is, too.

https://www.applerouth.com/blog/2017/12/12/a-concerning-trend-continues-more-students-getting-perfect-36s-on-act/

GPA inflation: In 2023, it's not uncommon to have 10% or more of a graduating class with a 4.00 U/W GPAs.

ACT inflation: Even at 17x (or even 20 - 30x in 2023, prospectively), an ACT score of 36 is achieved by around 1/2 of 1% of test takers. A 36 in one-and-done fashion? Probably 1/8th of 1% of test takers.

0.100 vs. 0.001 ... now do you understand the absurdity of the comparison?

Our Arlington public high school had 200 valedictorians. You just had to be 4.0 minimum weighted.

Yeah, I mean, the avalanche of evidence that grade inflation is THE PROBLEM is undeniable. It's not a popular position to take, but this capitulation w/r/t to standardized testing is resulting in a self-inflicted wound for the UC and CSU systems, and any other institutions around the country equally frightened off by standardized testing litigation.

Except people have been talking about the crisis of grade inflation for literally a century.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know that the percentage of students earning a 36 on the ACT is 17x higher today than 20 years ago? If grade inflation is such a problem, than this is, too.

https://www.applerouth.com/blog/2017/12/12/a-concerning-trend-continues-more-students-getting-perfect-36s-on-act/

GPA inflation: In 2023, it's not uncommon to have 10% or more of a graduating class with a 4.00 U/W GPAs.

ACT inflation: Even at 17x (or even 20 - 30x in 2023, prospectively), an ACT score of 36 is achieved by around 1/2 of 1% of test takers. A 36 in one-and-done fashion? Probably 1/8th of 1% of test takers.

0.100 vs. 0.001 ... now do you understand the absurdity of the comparison?

Our Arlington public high school had 200 valedictorians. You just had to be 4.0 minimum weighted.

Yeah, I mean, the avalanche of evidence that grade inflation is THE PROBLEM is undeniable. It's not a popular position to take, but this capitulation w/r/t to standardized testing is resulting in a self-inflicted wound for the UC and CSU systems, and any other institutions around the country equally frightened off by standardized testing litigation.

Except people have been talking about the crisis of grade inflation for literally a century.

Yeah, not really. There was a reasonable distribution of grades through the late 1990s. Thereafter, a runaway train of grade inflation that has accelerated immensely over the past 4 - 6 years. Nevertheless, if you view less than 25 years as "literally a century", have at it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Totally agree. And there are plenty of free resources for studying now if a student is motivated. Scores might not indicate everything, but they sure as heck indicate enough to make them worthwhile.

This is true.

I am convinced SATs are more equitable than stacking up impressive electives and writing flawless essays. The money being poured into college apps and college consulting is jaw dropping.

But SATs - which you can prep for with Khan and gobs of free resources - are bring eliminated. Hmm. Wonder why?

Because it helps dumb rich kids get in!!!

You know the DCUM crowd doesn't use Khan Academy. Thousands of dollars are spent on test prep and tutoring. Then taking the test 2-3 times for superscoriing.

Stop it.

Nope we do Khan

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forget college if you can't even handle SAT

Hmmm. I was about 80th percentile on the SAT. Top 5% of my college (a T20).

Looks like you “handled” the SAT just fine so what’s your point?

[Anonymous]

The reality is that vast majority of intelligent kids can do the work at these schools and suggesting only a small fraction can is silly. But that’s The system we have.

So much wrong with college admissions but what’s most of all wrong is the notion that a handful of select schools are somehow getting the best and the brightest.

And it feels like the same poster here is trashing TA over and over

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forget college if you can't even handle SAT

Hmmm. I was about 80th percentile on the SAT. Top 5% of my college (a T20).

Majoring in gender study? theater? something like that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am reading so many posts about kids with amazing GPAs and mediocre SAT/ACT scores. In this day and age of hugely inflated GPAs it makes more sense to me me that schools would require standardized test scores to at least see how these kids perform under that sort of pressure. College is not for the faint of heart (at least not at the top 20) and kids that can’t “cut it” with decent standardized scores really are doing themselves a disservice by attending and then not performing well on the exams and evaluations. So many people saying “Billy has a 5.0 GPA and all As and 10,000 AP classes but got a 1200 on the SAT…. Should we submit that to Stanford?” It’s driving me nuts. Not to mention that the only kids submitting scores are the ones who knock it out of the park which in turn just raises the average scores of those admitted. It’s a vicious cycle.

You know the classic saying: "My DC doesn't test well".

Another one and this one is deployed against TJ: "You are only good at knowing how to test well"

Lastly: "Harvard can fill many freshmen classes with perfect scores and perfect gpas - scores are not the end all be all everybody claims."

[Anonymous]

Teat optional is BS. I’ve called a few admission offices and been able to get the 2023 admit rates for TO vs T. TO overwhelmingly had Lowe admit rates. Schools say that it has no bearing on admission acceptance, but that’s not what the numbers show. I called one school and they only had a 8% acceptance rate for their engineering school for TO kids. This is a state school in Alabama and I will leave it at that.