If Fenty Loses ...

[Anonymous]

Of course there are - but Fenty has nothing to do with that. If you care about that even a little bit, then you owe your thanks to Tony Williams.

That wasn't a shout-out to Fenty (though he gets credit for not reversing the gains), rather an explanation of why, regardless of whether Fenty wins or loses, DCPS will continue to improve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's a schedule of improvements to various schools you can actually download from DCPS. It will show that the money actually gets spent pretty equitably.

Not.

http://realeducationreformdc.blogspot.com/2010/06/wash-post-article-gets-it-wrong-on.html

[Anonymous]

Let me try to summarize the Fenty/Rhee school improvement plan expressed on this thread:

DCPS has some good schools where the test scores are high. There are also a lot of bad schools where the test scores are low.

To improve DCPS we will convince more affluent families to send their children to our schools.

These affluent children score higher on standardized tests, so the more affluent kids we enroll, the higher the scores will be.

Eventually, there will be more schools with higher test scores, which means there will be more good schools.

Have I got that right?

Because this doesn't address what's actually happening inside schools.

Have any of you actually spent a day inside a school?
Have you read any of the DC standards?
Have you examined any of the textbooks?
Are you satisfied with the quality of the instruction?

Are you convinced that the learning activities in the "good schools" are superior to what's taking place in the "bad" schools?

And if there were no test scores, would you be able to explain the difference between a “good school” and a “bad school”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let me try to summarize the Fenty/Rhee school improvement plan expressed on this thread:

DCPS has some good schools where the test scores are high. There are also a lot of bad schools where the test scores are low.

To improve DCPS we will convince more affluent families to send their children to our schools.

These affluent children score higher on standardized tests, so the more affluent kids we enroll, the higher the scores will be.

Eventually, there will be more schools with higher test scores, which means there will be more good schools.

Have I got that right?

Because this doesn't address what's actually happening inside schools.

Have any of you actually spent a day inside a school?
Have you read any of the DC standards?
Have you examined any of the textbooks?
Are you satisfied with the quality of the instruction?

Are you convinced that the learning activities in the "good schools" are superior to what's taking place in the "bad" schools?

And if there were no test scores, would you be able to explain the difference between a “good school” and a “bad school”?

This is an extremely good question to put to any Mayoral Candidate. Thank you. I really like it.
We had a good talk with a Fenty cavasser in our neighborhood who was pushing what Fenty has 'done for public education'. Did not seem informed however on what Fenty has not done for charters (also public education). Our family supports public and public charter. We cannot support Fenty for this reason as I politely explained to the canvasser.

[Anonymous]

Caveat--I also am alarmed at what he has 'done for public education' (DCPS). Lots and lots and lots of unhappiness with his vision of school reform.

[Anonymous]

And if there were no test scores, would you be able to explain the difference between a “good school” and a “bad school”?

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You're saying there's no difference between JKLMs of DCPS and the most dysfunctional schools? Other than test scores?
Don't think you'd get many to agree with you here. In fact, that's a bit nutso.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're saying there's no difference between JKLMs of DCPS and the most dysfunctional schools? Other than test scores?
Don't think you'd get many to agree with you here. In fact, that's a bit nutso.

Well, let's hear it?

Leaving test scores (and neighborhood affluence) aside, what is the difference between the quality of of the educational opportunities offered at JKLM and the other DCPS elementary schools?

[Anonymous]

My child is in a JKLM, used to be in a non-JKLM but still a public with more affluent parents than the average DCPS ES.
I think the teachers in JKLM schools are equal to teachers in DCPS as a whole. The curriculum is the same. The difference comes when teachers in JKLMs have faith that a substantial number of children in their class will score proficient on the DC CAS no matter what the teacher does and therefore seem to be more creative and less focused on test prep. These teachers can focus on critical thinking activities and not performance on standard test questions. JKLMs seem to be most at risk of not making AYP due to their disabled populations not meeting goals.
My child's JKLM does what I feel is a ridiculous amount of test prep despite the likelihood that the kids in that school, for the most part, will do just fine regardless. Test prep must be just awful in school's that worry about larger portions of their student body.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child is in a JKLM, used to be in a non-JKLM but still a public with more affluent parents than the average DCPS ES.
I think the teachers in JKLM schools are equal to teachers in DCPS as a whole. The curriculum is the same. The difference comes when teachers in JKLMs have faith that a substantial number of children in their class will score proficient on the DC CAS no matter what the teacher does and therefore seem to be more creative and less focused on test prep. These teachers can focus on critical thinking activities and not performance on standard test questions. JKLMs seem to be most at risk of not making AYP due to their disabled populations not meeting goals.
My child's JKLM does what I feel is a ridiculous amount of test prep despite the likelihood that the kids in that school, for the most part, will do just fine regardless. Test prep must be just awful in school's that worry about larger portions of their student body.

I would have to agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child is in a JKLM, used to be in a non-JKLM but still a public with more affluent parents than the average DCPS ES.
I think the teachers in JKLM schools are equal to teachers in DCPS as a whole. The curriculum is the same. The difference comes when teachers in JKLMs have faith that a substantial number of children in their class will score proficient on the DC CAS no matter what the teacher does and therefore seem to be more creative and less focused on test prep. These teachers can focus on critical thinking activities and not performance on standard test questions. JKLMs seem to be most at risk of not making AYP due to their disabled populations not meeting goals.
My child's JKLM does what I feel is a ridiculous amount of test prep despite the likelihood that the kids in that school, for the most part, will do just fine regardless. Test prep must be just awful in school's that worry about larger portions of their student body.

Makes sense. Unfortunately, when Rhee and her acolytes get involved the creative teachers get squashed. Look what happened to Mr. Reiner at Wilson (from the thread "DCPS loses another great teacher"). He taught AP classes and because he was confident his students could meet all their testing goals (including the AP, btw which is obviously a substantially higher achievement than the DC-CAS) he was very creative in the classroom. And now he's gone. DCPS is NOT interested in quality individuals on the teaching staff, it is interested in plug-and-play widgets.

Having bled that out, I still agree with you at the elementary level. Unless your school has the economic demographics of JKLM it's going to be drill 'n kill all the way.

[Anonymous]

Therein lies the sad inequity. The students who need the rich content, creative pedagogy, and talented teachers the most are given more test prep.

[Anonymous]

I think the Rhee-haters would be more persuaxive if they could come up with a coherent narrative. Half the folks in the thread hate her because she's taking all the "good stuff" from the poor schools and giving it to the rich schools. The other half hate her because she's making all schools the same. Y'all need to get together and figure it out.

Anyway, for most of DCPS, schools are ovrflowing with kids that can't read, who can't add two and two and get four. There may be a certain amount of "teaching to the test" but that's only because the test covers the bare rudiments of an education.

Once we get more than half our students reading on level, and able to do simple math, we can move on.

[Anonymous]

The problem is, teaching to the test doesn't really address the lack of literacy and numeracy. If you have students that are 2 and 3 years below grade level, trying to prepare them for the grade-level test simply doesn't address their needs.

We've been doing this testing, shaming, blaming, closing schools, firing principals, reconstituting/restructuring routine in DC for years now. Rhee has simply upped the ante by threatening and firing teachers.

And the results are:
• a lot of chaos and disruption,
• multiple changes in leadership,
• multiple reconstitutions and restructuring,
• competition and hostility among teachers,
• lots of disatisfied parents, and
• lower test scores

Does this seem to be working?

[Anonymous]

And this is different than the past 40 years, how?

[Anonymous]

The problem is, teaching to the test doesn't really address the lack of literacy and numeracy. If you have students that are 2 and 3 years below grade level, trying to prepare them for the grade-level test simply doesn't address their needs.

I agree that it's an intractable problem. The *only* solution is to change the demographic mix of the system. The only way you do that is by a) showing test score gains; b) cleaning up the facilities; c) getting middle-class parents into the system.

The fact that there are lots of dissatisfied parents doesn't mean anything. There are also a lot of very happy parents, and people get dissatisfied about all sort of things (c.f. the PP angry that JKLM is stealing all the good stuff, "because gentrifiers don't care if poor kids die in the gutter", etc...).

The one constant in life is that change pisses people off. The thing that the deeply entrenched interests embedded in DCPS can't seem to wrap their head around is that stasis is NOT AN OPTION.