APS new policy on remediation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got to say I really like the retake policy. My kid is in 6th and got his first poor grade ever (C+) on a test. He was beside himself (crying, saying how he was a failure, is not worth anything, is pathetic, and shouldn't even go to school). However, once he calmed down, he was able to email the teacher regarding a retake, recognize what he did wrong (in his case, misread the instructions) and is going to retake tomorrow.

So for kids like mine that experience academic stress (and yes we are seeking help) it is good that he knows that he has a chance to fix things if he makes a mistake.

A C+ isn't a poor grade. All of this grade inflation just makes it seem like it is.

I suppose. I (as a kid) would have been upset about another below a B in the 90s when I went to school. I mean I would probably be upset with anything below an A to be honest (when I was in school). I don't think this is new.

+1

I still remember being horrified by getting Bs on quarterly grades back in the 80s. And I’m still pissed that I got a 90.5 (B) as a final grade in one class. That’s how I lost my #1 rank.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year kids could retake to infinity. This is better

That’s not true. It depended on teacher/class.

Well, most implemented it the way it was explained to them, which was to infinity. Why study if you know you can retake a test again and again until you succeed? That’s what my kid “learned.” I am glad, especially for teachers.

Because there is a cost to each retake.

How many kids actually retook tests multiple times?

Retakes are great because they promote learning.

Right! I was talking to someone about this the other day. He said when he went to HS (the 90s) he was allowed retakes. He struggled in physics and retook those (after studying). He said that the ability to retake tests realy helped him learn concepts and when he got to college he was number one in his physics class because he actually learned it in HS.




Maybe they are okay for younger students but college bound students shouldn't be doing this. They don't have retakes in college. My son is a freshman in college and he says everyone in his classes are complaining that the teachers won't allow retakes. A semester is 15 weeks or so and a quarter is 10 weeks. There is a timeline to learning and kids in high school shouldn't be given all of these chances. They will fail miserably in college because they are trained to expect the same thing they've always had.

“All of these chances”? You overestimate the time/effort it takes to do retakes. And when retakes are even available.

Each of my college-bound kids has benefited from periodic retakes. It has helped them fill gaps/reinforce learning before moving on to the next level. Way better than just accepting a marginal grade and moving on to the next unit.

I’ll take learning over never having the chance to take a retake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year kids could retake to infinity. This is better

That’s not true. It depended on teacher/class.

Well, most implemented it the way it was explained to them, which was to infinity. Why study if you know you can retake a test again and again until you succeed? That’s what my kid “learned.” I am glad, especially for teachers.

Because there is a cost to each retake.

How many kids actually retook tests multiple times?

Retakes are great because they promote learning.

Maybe they are okay for younger students but college bound students shouldn't be doing this. They don't have retakes in college. My son is a freshman in college and he says everyone in his classes are complaining that the teachers won't allow retakes. A semester is 15 weeks or so and a quarter is 10 weeks. There is a timeline to learning and kids in high school shouldn't be given all of these chances. They will fail miserably in college because they are trained to expect the same thing they've always had.

“All of these chances”? You overestimate the time/effort it takes to do retakes. And when retakes are even available.

Each of my college-bound kids has benefited from periodic retakes. It has helped them fill gaps/reinforce learning before moving on to the next level. Way better than just accepting a marginal grade and moving on to the next unit.

I’ll take learning over never having the chance to take a retake.

Right! I was talking to someone about this the other day. He said when he went to HS (the 90s) he was allowed retakes. He struggled in physics and retook those (after studying). He said that the ability to retake tests realy helped him learn concepts and when he got to college he was number one in his physics class because he actually learned it in HS.

Exactly. The point here is learning. If there are gaps in learning this provides the opportunity for kids to go back to relearn/reinforce the material.

This isn't promoting poor study habits - there is a time/effort/schedule cost for retakes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is an issue at W-L… they shortened generals period and made some days no-travel days, so with all the required remediation steps, my kid is having to pick and choose what they can make up because there isn’t time to do more than maybe one a week. Taking rigorous classes and trying for As, so would be interested in making up a low B on a test or a C on any of quiz.

Can't they make an appointment with teachers before or after school? Shouldn't be mascot period only.

You mean outside of teacher’s contract hours? Not a solution to a wider problem. If APS wants to allow the retakes it needs to allow time in schedules to do the remediation required. Seems they still haven’t found balance for each.

Making after-school appointments with teachers has been a long-standing option. Many teachers do this. Don't be ridiculous. Maybe your kid should focus on needing to do less make-up and remediation work. If their workload is too rigorous, perhaps they should back off a bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is an issue at W-L… they shortened generals period and made some days no-travel days, so with all the required remediation steps, my kid is having to pick and choose what they can make up because there isn’t time to do more than maybe one a week. Taking rigorous classes and trying for As, so would be interested in making up a low B on a test or a C on any of quiz.

YHS has had 2 days of mascot period be no travel for several years. Is this something new at W-L and WHS?

Yes, it can be challenging, but some teachers also only offer retakes before or after school and that can also be hard. There are choices to be made. I do find the amount of extra work required before a retake to be prohibitive in some classes, but I'll keep my fingers crossed that it's not too necessary.

Yes, this is new at the other schools this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year kids could retake to infinity. This is better

That’s not true. It depended on teacher/class.

Well, most implemented it the way it was explained to them, which was to infinity. Why study if you know you can retake a test again and again until you succeed? That’s what my kid “learned.” I am glad, especially for teachers.

Because there is a cost to each retake.

How many kids actually retook tests multiple times?

Retakes are great because they promote learning.

Maybe they are okay for younger students but college bound students shouldn't be doing this. They don't have retakes in college. My son is a freshman in college and he says everyone in his classes are complaining that the teachers won't allow retakes. A semester is 15 weeks or so and a quarter is 10 weeks. There is a timeline to learning and kids in high school shouldn't be given all of these chances. They will fail miserably in college because they are trained to expect the same thing they've always had.

“All of these chances”? You overestimate the time/effort it takes to do retakes. And when retakes are even available.

Each of my college-bound kids has benefited from periodic retakes. It has helped them fill gaps/reinforce learning before moving on to the next level. Way better than just accepting a marginal grade and moving on to the next unit.

I’ll take learning over never having the chance to take a retake.

Right! I was talking to someone about this the other day. He said when he went to HS (the 90s) he was allowed retakes. He struggled in physics and retook those (after studying). He said that the ability to retake tests realy helped him learn concepts and when he got to college he was number one in his physics class because he actually learned it in HS.

Exactly. The point here is learning. If there are gaps in learning this provides the opportunity for kids to go back to relearn/reinforce the material.

This isn't promoting poor study habits - there is a time/effort/schedule cost for retakes.

I understand the benefits. But when do students learn that they don't always get a do-over? Is it really right to let them leave high school and go to college without learning how to manage without do-overs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I understand the benefits. But when do students learn that they don't always get a do-over? Is it really right to let them leave high school and go to college without learning how to manage without do-overs?

Partly I think like you that it's not teaching kids to focus and get it right the first time. It's an issue, no doubt. OTOH it's giving kids the incentive to go back and learn the material, so hopefully they end up having mastered the content. The chance to improve the grade is the incentive to study it again. My child has a re-take next week and intends to spend the weekend studying. No way would he do that just for the sake of knowledge, so hopefully he comes out understanding the material better than his initial test grade would indicate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I understand the benefits. But when do students learn that they don't always get a do-over? Is it really right to let them leave high school and go to college without learning how to manage without do-overs?

Partly I think like you that it's not teaching kids to focus and get it right the first time. It's an issue, no doubt. OTOH it's giving kids the incentive to go back and learn the material, so hopefully they end up having mastered the content. The chance to improve the grade is the incentive to study it again. My child has a re-take next week and intends to spend the weekend studying. No way would he do that just for the sake of knowledge, so hopefully he comes out understanding the material better than his initial test grade would indicate.

Maybe the retake policy needs to wean away as the kids get older. Perhaps allow students 3 retakes (one each of the first 3 quarters) and only for a C+ or lower. If students know they can't retake every quiz and exam if they don't like their grade, maybe they'll be more judicious with their retake and be better prepared the first time.

Or, they have to correct the questions they missed and demonstrate they understand what they did wrong before they can take the next quiz. They won't be able to raise their grade on the quiz/test; but they'd still have to do the "learning" before moving on to the next.

[Anonymous]

I am a supporter of the retake policy. My HSer usually bombs the first math test every year, then plays catchup the rest of the semester. This year he bombed, the teacher went over corrections with him, and he got a high B on the retake. Now he's getting A's the first take. This year he says math is his favorite class. I'll take it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:8:33 your child isn't alone. This is to me also an outcome of elementary schools not sufficiently challenging some kids so when they get to their first hard class they are completely unprepared for facing setbacks in the classroom.

Thanks for the kind words. Yes, his teacher sent an email to all of the parents saying how a lot of kids do bad on the first couple of tests before they realize that middle school requires a bit more effort (or focus). DS is a smart kid but tends to rush or be sloppy. At least I think he learned his lesson on that (we went over how to slow down and re-read questions).

I do hope we can at least come to a point where his immediate inclination is not to melt down if he doesn't do well at something.

Just as a follow up! My kid retook the test and brought his grade from a C+ to am A!

That's great news, PP! It likely means he's now learned the material. One of DC's teachers has not returned the original retakes, telling the kids it isn't a priority so they'll get them at the end of the quarter so it's interim and they have no idea what their grades are.

Well yeah, I think retakes are a double-edged sword. On the one hand its great that kids get more opportunities to learn the materials. But it is literally doubling the teacher's work. Of course it is going to take awhile to grade extra assignments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a supporter of the retake policy. My HSer usually bombs the first math test every year, then plays catchup the rest of the semester. This year he bombed, the teacher went over corrections with him, and he got a high B on the retake. Now he's getting A's the first take. This year he says math is his favorite class. I'll take it.

+1

I think the chance of recovery is worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thoughts on the new intensive process for remediation and retakes? Last year the kids were able to do corrections to demonstrate and move on. This year they have to fill out a multi-page form about why they made mistakes and what they'll do next time. Then they have to do the corrections and meet with the teacher. Then they have to retake the entire test.

I get the point that they want to make sure the kids learn the material, but DC is now stuck in a hole trying to study for the next unit while doing all this extra stuff for the last test. Does anyone have kids who are also overwhelmed by this new process? As a parent, do you have any suggestions or strategies to support your students? I'm concerned DC is simply going to give up since it will feel like there's no way to get caught up.

So you are mad bc the teacher won’t just give him an easy A

Imagine they used to just give you a grade on the test and that was it. There was no retake. I think it needs to go back to that.