Near half of MCPS full-time teacher voids fall within Special Education

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mcps is repugnant in its treatment of special needs students

I agree with this comment. It's particularly true for students who have special needs and enter the system as ESOL students. Their parents do not know their students' rights and these students' testing and potential placement are put on the back burner.

SpEd testing doesn’t usually happen until 3rd grade due to typical variance in student development.

Where do the PEP kids come from?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mcps is repugnant in its treatment of special needs students

I agree with this comment. It's particularly true for students who have special needs and enter the system as ESOL students. Their parents do not know their students' rights and these students' testing and potential placement are put on the back burner.

SpEd testing doesn’t usually happen until 3rd grade due to typical variance in student development.

Where on earth are you getting your logic from? I am an early childhood special educator and our department is growing exponentially every year. Below us, infants and toddlers is exploding. More and more children are being identified and evaluated for services earlier. Third grade is actually on the late side (and yes I have worked k-5 and seen that too)

PPs comment is probably a MCPS employee demonstrating their lack of understanding of the Child Find responsibility that public schools have. There are windows of opportunity that close as children age. To sit back and wait till 3rd greatly decreases the ability for some children to reach their potential. This leads to a lifetime of impact for an illegal practice of wait and see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mcps is repugnant in its treatment of special needs students

I agree with this comment. It's particularly true for students who have special needs and enter the system as ESOL students. Their parents do not know their students' rights and these students' testing and potential placement are put on the back burner.

SpEd testing doesn’t usually happen until 3rd grade due to typical variance in student development.

Where do the PEP kids come from?

Infants amd Toddlers (they've been receiving services for years), or their pediatrician sends them to Child Find where they are evaluated and sent to PEP (frequently to the wrong class, INC instead of autism for example, because either parents are in denial or autism is too full).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mcps is repugnant in its treatment of special needs students

I agree with this comment. It's particularly true for students who have special needs and enter the system as ESOL students. Their parents do not know their students' rights and these students' testing and potential placement are put on the back burner.

SpEd testing doesn’t usually happen until 3rd grade due to typical variance in student development.

Where on earth are you getting your logic from? I am an early childhood special educator and our department is growing exponentially every year. Below us, infants and toddlers is exploding. More and more children are being identified and evaluated for services earlier. Third grade is actually on the late side (and yes I have worked k-5 and seen that too)

NP here. At our ES, students are strongly discouraged from pursuing testing to determine IEP qualification until 3rd grade. This includes kids who received therapies from the Infants and Toddlers program.
"There won't be a discrepancy between their IQ and their grades until 3rd grade, so they won't qualify if we test now."
"Most kids catch up by 3rd grade, so let's see if your child is one of them and if not, we'll address your concerns then."
"We just don't see an issue at all. Your child is within the normal range. Please relax and it'll all work out."

Glad to hear that at your school, this nonsense wouldn't fly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mcps is repugnant in its treatment of special needs students

I agree with this comment. It's particularly true for students who have special needs and enter the system as ESOL students. Their parents do not know their students' rights and these students' testing and potential placement are put on the back burner.

SpEd testing doesn’t usually happen until 3rd grade due to typical variance in student development.

Where on earth are you getting your logic from? I am an early childhood special educator and our department is growing exponentially every year. Below us, infants and toddlers is exploding. More and more children are being identified and evaluated for services earlier. Third grade is actually on the late side (and yes I have worked k-5 and seen that too)

NP here. At our ES, students are strongly discouraged from pursuing testing to determine IEP qualification until 3rd grade. This includes kids who received therapies from the Infants and Toddlers program.
"There won't be a discrepancy between their IQ and their grades until 3rd grade, so they won't qualify if we test now."
"Most kids catch up by 3rd grade, so let's see if your child is one of them and if not, we'll address your concerns then."
"We just don't see an issue at all. Your child is within the normal range. Please relax and it'll all work out."

Glad to hear that at your school, this nonsense wouldn't fly.

That's disturbing. Are you willing to name the school?

[Anonymous]

There needs to be a reduction in paperwork. There was a proposal to have IEP meetings be every three years. The current state of overwhelming sped teachers with paperwork and meetings while at the same time as being required to have large caseloads and teach so many students is not possible. Something has to give.

Special education teachers are voting with their feet and leaving special education. I know two teachers who have special education credentials but won't teach special education. They left the district and one got hired at a private school and one as a general education teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There needs to be a reduction in paperwork. There was a proposal to have IEP meetings be every three years. The current state of overwhelming sped teachers with paperwork and meetings while at the same time as being required to have large caseloads and teach so many students is not possible. Something has to give.

Special education teachers are voting with their feet and leaving special education. I know two teachers who have special education credentials but won't teach special education. They left the district and one got hired at a private school and one as a general education teacher.

Every three years? That's absurd. No IEP could reasonably identify goals and objectives covering three years. Even one year is often absurd.

But I agree they absolutely need to bring in additional staff to help with the administrative processes and to reduce caseload.

[Anonymous]

Many sped teachers are fleeing to ESOL
You are still helping students but the work load is easier

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many sped teachers are fleeing to ESOL
You are still helping students but the work load is easier

There’s less paperwork, but many EMLs in MCPS are twice-exceptional. Last year, all but two of my EML students had an IEP and all but two of my IEP students were an EML. Often, it is unclear whether limited language proficiency or a LD is the cause of a failure to grasp a particular skill or piece of content. I was very happy to be the general educator.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m very curious how many employees in central office are certified teachers. Why are they not being sent back in the classrooms? PGCPS did this post pandemic.

They may be certified in the wrong subjects or the wrong levels. Someone with an ES cert can’t teach grades 7-12 or vice versa. An English cert won’t help if the vacancies are in math, science, and SPED.

Doesn't really matter...because anyone can teach outside of their cert for one year, so they absolutely could be bringing back central office employees to fill positions-they just don't want to.

Maybe because you shouldn’t force people who purposely left the classroom for another position to return to the classroom. Do you really want someone teaching your kids if they don’t want to be a teacher?

Plus, they probably don’t want to risk Central Office staff quitting rather than returning to the classroom.

Lol you sound like you work at Central.....who cares if central office staff start quitting? The majority of them arent doing much of anything all day ANYWAY...putting them in a classroom would require them to put forth some effort, so yeah, no wonder they dont want to.

No, I’m a classroom teacher and a parent. I don’t want colleagues who would rather be somewhere else (because then I have to pick up their slack) and I certainly don’t want someone responsible for my kids’ education who would rather not be in a classroom. In 2016, Central Office cut positions and people reluctantly returned to the classroom. Two ended up at my school. It was a disaster. Neither had taught in 10+ years. One called out regularly to use up years of saved sick leave. The other showed up in body only, but his mind was clearly elsewhere. I am very grateful those two weren’t in my children’s schools.

As a parent and former teacher, I'd rather have former teachers than a long term sub who hasnt been in a classroom before and is doing the job to make ends meet. I think you'd know better a classroom teacher.

As a classroom teacher, I know that most designated long-term subs in MCPS are former or aspiring teachers. They have current classroom experience unlike people who would be transferred from central office.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mcps is repugnant in its treatment of special needs students

I agree with this comment. It's particularly true for students who have special needs and enter the system as ESOL students. Their parents do not know their students' rights and these students' testing and potential placement are put on the back burner.

SpEd testing doesn’t usually happen until 3rd grade due to typical variance in student development.

Where on earth are you getting your logic from? I am an early childhood special educator and our department is growing exponentially every year. Below us, infants and toddlers is exploding. More and more children are being identified and evaluated for services earlier. Third grade is actually on the late side (and yes I have worked k-5 and seen that too)

NP here. At our ES, students are strongly discouraged from pursuing testing to determine IEP qualification until 3rd grade. This includes kids who received therapies from the Infants and Toddlers program.
"There won't be a discrepancy between their IQ and their grades until 3rd grade, so they won't qualify if we test now."
"Most kids catch up by 3rd grade, so let's see if your child is one of them and if not, we'll address your concerns then."
"We just don't see an issue at all. Your child is within the normal range. Please relax and it'll all work out."

Glad to hear that at your school, this nonsense wouldn't fly.

As a parent, I heard all of this from MCPS - the developmental range is so wide that they will not say your kid is “behind” until 3rd grade, and then they will just say that your kid isn’t “behind”, they’re just dumb or unmotivated and can’t do any better and you are a psychologically unsound parent who cannot come to terms with a child who isn’t a superstar.

They are basically hoping you will either 1)believe there isn’t a problem 2) become so exhausted from trying you give up or 3) believe that you, the parent, are the one with the problem.

Yes, MCPS has a “child find” obligation, but they do not give a crap about it unless they think you realistically have the resources - both financial and emotional- to take them to court and win.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mcps is repugnant in its treatment of special needs students

I agree with this comment. It's particularly true for students who have special needs and enter the system as ESOL students. Their parents do not know their students' rights and these students' testing and potential placement are put on the back burner.

SpEd testing doesn’t usually happen until 3rd grade due to typical variance in student development.

Where on earth are you getting your logic from? I am an early childhood special educator and our department is growing exponentially every year. Below us, infants and toddlers is exploding. More and more children are being identified and evaluated for services earlier. Third grade is actually on the late side (and yes I have worked k-5 and seen that too)

NP here. At our ES, students are strongly discouraged from pursuing testing to determine IEP qualification until 3rd grade. This includes kids who received therapies from the Infants and Toddlers program.
"There won't be a discrepancy between their IQ and their grades until 3rd grade, so they won't qualify if we test now."
"Most kids catch up by 3rd grade, so let's see if your child is one of them and if not, we'll address your concerns then."
"We just don't see an issue at all. Your child is within the normal range. Please relax and it'll all work out."

Glad to hear that at your school, this nonsense wouldn't fly.

As a parent, I heard all of this from MCPS - the developmental range is so wide that they will not say your kid is “behind” until 3rd grade, and then they will just say that your kid isn’t “behind”, they’re just dumb or unmotivated and can’t do any better and you are a psychologically unsound parent who cannot come to terms with a child who isn’t a superstar.

They are basically hoping you will either 1)believe there isn’t a problem 2) become so exhausted from trying you give up or 3) believe that you, the parent, are the one with the problem.

Yes, MCPS has a “child find” obligation, but they do not give a crap about it unless they think you realistically have the resources - both financial and emotional- to take them to court and win.

It is this exactly. I am an mcps employee who then had the misfortune of dealing with this as a parent. It has made me despise my employer. I have always been a parent advocate and even more so, now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There needs to be a reduction in paperwork. There was a proposal to have IEP meetings be every three years. The current state of overwhelming sped teachers with paperwork and meetings while at the same time as being required to have large caseloads and teach so many students is not possible. Something has to give.

Special education teachers are voting with their feet and leaving special education. I know two teachers who have special education credentials but won't teach special education. They left the district and one got hired at a private school and one as a general education teacher.

Every three years? That's absurd. No IEP could reasonably identify goals and objectives covering three years. Even one year is often absurd.

But I agree they absolutely need to bring in additional staff to help with the administrative processes and to reduce caseload.

The special education teacher and parent could meet instead to figure out goals. No reason a general education teacher and principal need to be there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There needs to be a reduction in paperwork. There was a proposal to have IEP meetings be every three years. The current state of overwhelming sped teachers with paperwork and meetings while at the same time as being required to have large caseloads and teach so many students is not possible. Something has to give.

Special education teachers are voting with their feet and leaving special education. I know two teachers who have special education credentials but won't teach special education. They left the district and one got hired at a private school and one as a general education teacher.

Every three years? That's absurd. No IEP could reasonably identify goals and objectives covering three years. Even one year is often absurd.

But I agree they absolutely need to bring in additional staff to help with the administrative processes and to reduce caseload.

The special education teacher and parent could meet instead to figure out goals. No reason a general education teacher and principal need to be there.

Maybe not in ES, but in secondary school, I disagree. The special educators don’t know the curriculum and don’t know what on grade level performance looks like. The result is that goals can be very out of sync with the general education curriculum and learning environment. I’ll give one example: “Larla will write a complete sentence in 7 out of 10 opportunities.” Meanwhile, the curriculum asks students in Larla’s grade to write a paragraph with a thesis statement, two to three pieces of evidence to support the thesis, and reasoning. The general ed teacher can check the box that the mismatched goal was met quarterly and yet Larla still cannot write a thesis statement with an identifiable claim or explain how her evidence supports her claim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There needs to be a reduction in paperwork. There was a proposal to have IEP meetings be every three years. The current state of overwhelming sped teachers with paperwork and meetings while at the same time as being required to have large caseloads and teach so many students is not possible. Something has to give.

Special education teachers are voting with their feet and leaving special education. I know two teachers who have special education credentials but won't teach special education. They left the district and one got hired at a private school and one as a general education teacher.

Every three years? That's absurd. No IEP could reasonably identify goals and objectives covering three years. Even one year is often absurd.

But I agree they absolutely need to bring in additional staff to help with the administrative processes and to reduce caseload.

The special education teacher and parent could meet instead to figure out goals. No reason a general education teacher and principal need to be there.

For elementary, the general education teacher is often who is implementing the supports, and tracking progress on the goals. I don't know how you could have a meaningful discussion without the teacher.

And FWIW, the principal has never attended any of our IEP meetings.