Fairfax County police to expand use of automated license plate readers this spring

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good. I hope they crack down on the paper tags that are EVERYWHERE.

You might consider how well an automated plate reader works on a fake paper tag.

An automated plate reader that can't pick up a fake tag would be a fail in my book. That, and the bogus "Sovereign Citizen" plates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would be the concern?

+1 Obey laws and.no.concerns.

I mean, why don’t we just have a cop personally follow you around all day to watch just in case you break any laws? If you obey the law, what possible objection could you have?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would be the concern?

+1 Obey laws and.no.concerns.

I mean, why don’t we just have a cop personally follow you around all day to watch just in case you break any laws? If you obey the law, what possible objection could you have?

? That's an inapt analogy -- the license plate readers at fixed locations on the public roadways aren't "following you around." I'm starting to wonder where you are going on the public roadways that you don't want anyone to know about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good. I hope they crack down on the paper tags that are EVERYWHERE.

You might consider how well an automated plate reader works on a fake paper tag.

An automated plate reader that can't pick up a fake tag would be a fail in my book. That, and the bogus "Sovereign Citizen" plates.

You might want to think about this for a second. It's a fake tag. It doesn't link to anything. You would still need an officer to stop the car at some point. Since these are automated plate readers, no officer stands around waiting to pull someone over. It will only catch the people who bother to have valid plates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clear invasion of privacy.

Really, we have a right to the privacy of our license plate number? I don't think so. Of course, I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but I'm fairly certain you don't.

Having a log file mapping your daily movements creates a potential source of serious abuse. That kind of information is very powerful and should not be left open to abuse by loosely regulated and secretive groups of people.

Exactly. Anyone who thinks this is a good idea should visit China to see how it feels to be tracked.

Yes. Fairfax is China. That’s it.

Increasingly, yes.

China and North Korea love mass surveillance programs like this to make sure their citizens stay inline.

Why do you like that kind of model for society?

Exactly. They have no guaranteed God-given freedoms like we do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good. I hope they crack down on the paper tags that are EVERYWHERE.

You might consider how well an automated plate reader works on a fake paper tag.

An automated plate reader that can't pick up a fake tag would be a fail in my book. That, and the bogus "Sovereign Citizen" plates.

You might want to think about this for a second. It's a fake tag. It doesn't link to anything. You would still need an officer to stop the car at some point. Since these are automated plate readers, no officer stands around waiting to pull someone over. It will only catch the people who bother to have valid plates.

Hard disagree.

A lot of people are printing out these fake tags from images they find online, or buying them from sketchy vendors et cetera. The patterns of things should be able to be programmed into automated plate readers, along with being able to flag something that looks like a plate but comes up erroneous or problematic, like a disfigured or obscured plate. ALL of that should in theory be detected by an automated plate reader. If it doesn't then the police should be finding a different vendor whose product can do that. And frankly any vendor who isn't thinking about those scenarios shouldn't be in the automated license plate reader business to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clear invasion of privacy.

Really, we have a right to the privacy of our license plate number? I don't think so. Of course, I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but I'm fairly certain you don't.

Having a log file mapping your daily movements creates a potential source of serious abuse. That kind of information is very powerful and should not be left open to abuse by loosely regulated and secretive groups of people.

Exactly. Anyone who thinks this is a good idea should visit China to see how it feels to be tracked.

Yes. Fairfax is China. That’s it.

Increasingly, yes.

China and North Korea love mass surveillance programs like this to make sure their citizens stay inline.

Why do you like that kind of model for society?

Exactly. They have no guaranteed God-given freedoms like we do.

Wrong. We don't have guaranteed God given freedoms. Not even the ones in the Bill of Rights. For example any random US citizen can't own a full auto M-60 machine gun. You don't have the right to make false statements about products and services. You don't have the right to threaten to harm or kill someone.

And likewise you have no expectation of privacy if you commit crimes in public, including traffic crimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good. I hope they crack down on the paper tags that are EVERYWHERE.

You might consider how well an automated plate reader works on a fake paper tag.

An automated plate reader that can't pick up a fake tag would be a fail in my book. That, and the bogus "Sovereign Citizen" plates.

You might want to think about this for a second. It's a fake tag. It doesn't link to anything. You would still need an officer to stop the car at some point. Since these are automated plate readers, no officer stands around waiting to pull someone over. It will only catch the people who bother to have valid plates.

Sounds like that stupid gun argument

No. It reads the tag. If the tag is fake, stolen, paper or missing it reads, records and sends an alert. The alerts are sent to police in the area. These are not dumb non linked programs. The reader can identify the color, model and make of the car. Some they also have facial recognition.

In most jurisdictions that use readers, the readers are on every police cars. They are expanding that to include buses(public and school), parking enforcement, emergency vehicles and all major roads. You can actually track a tags travel history back to a neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would be the concern?

+1 Obey laws and.no.concerns.

I mean, why don’t we just have a cop personally follow you around all day to watch just in case you break any laws? If you obey the law, what possible objection could you have?

Bad analogy. License plate readers are for dealing with people who already broke the law and already refused to pay the consequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good. I hope they crack down on the paper tags that are EVERYWHERE.

You might consider how well an automated plate reader works on a fake paper tag.

An automated plate reader that can't pick up a fake tag would be a fail in my book. That, and the bogus "Sovereign Citizen" plates.

You might want to think about this for a second. It's a fake tag. It doesn't link to anything. You would still need an officer to stop the car at some point. Since these are automated plate readers, no officer stands around waiting to pull someone over. It will only catch the people who bother to have valid plates.

Sounds like that stupid gun argument

No. It reads the tag. If the tag is fake, stolen, paper or missing it reads, records and sends an alert. The alerts are sent to police in the area. These are not dumb non linked programs. The reader can identify the color, model and make of the car. Some they also have facial recognition.

In most jurisdictions that use readers, the readers are on every police cars. They are expanding that to include buses(public and school), parking enforcement, emergency vehicles and all major roads. You can actually track a tags travel history back to a neighborhood.

They should also pull in violations from all adjoining jurisdictions in the DMV to include not just VA but MD and DC.

[Anonymous]

Caught these guys coming from Maryland. Most likely taking the car to a chop shop in Fairfax Co.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Caught these guys coming from Maryland. Most likely taking the car to a chop shop in Fairfax Co.

But muh freedumb!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good. I hope they crack down on the paper tags that are EVERYWHERE.

You might consider how well an automated plate reader works on a fake paper tag.

An automated plate reader that can't pick up a fake tag would be a fail in my book. That, and the bogus "Sovereign Citizen" plates.

You might want to think about this for a second. It's a fake tag. It doesn't link to anything. You would still need an officer to stop the car at some point. Since these are automated plate readers, no officer stands around waiting to pull someone over. It will only catch the people who bother to have valid plates.

Sounds like that stupid gun argument

No. It reads the tag. If the tag is fake, stolen, paper or missing it reads, records and sends an alert. The alerts are sent to police in the area. These are not dumb non linked programs. The reader can identify the color, model and make of the car. Some they also have facial recognition.

In most jurisdictions that use readers, the readers are on every police cars. They are expanding that to include buses(public and school), parking enforcement, emergency vehicles and all major roads. You can actually track a tags travel history back to a neighborhood.

I have been targeted by automated plate readers before. If you search on my first name and last name, you will find plenty of outstanding warrants. Last time the cops told me I need to change my name.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clear invasion of privacy.

Really, we have a right to the privacy of our license plate number? I don't think so. Of course, I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but I'm fairly certain you don't.

Having a log file mapping your daily movements creates a potential source of serious abuse. That kind of information is very powerful and should not be left open to abuse by loosely regulated and secretive groups of people.

DP here. Who are the loosely regulated and secretive people? I’m wondering how you think this information could be used.

FlockSafety, a private third party, will provide the cameras and systems. Very little regulation exists about the collection of these types of data by non-governmental agencies.

Wikipedia is a terrible source, but it's a starting point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flock_Safety FlockSafety claims to have installations in 1500 cities. That's a reasonably large surveillance network. So what is their retention policy for the collected data? To whom do they sell the data? They claim the customer owns all the data, which expires after 30 days. Of course, Facebook has made similar claims about protecting data. FlockSafety can't ignore a valid warrant for specific information from any federal or local agencies.

FCPD plans to install the plate readers in high-crime areas. That's "broken window" policing which hasn't gone over very well in the past or present. DC is still struggling to explain why the speed cameras appear to be concentrated in lower-income, i.e., minority, neighborhoods. Can FCPD explain why they suspect that more felons are driving around in high-crime neighborhoods without examining the actual crimes causing the high-crime rate? Does excessive graffiti count as high-crime? High crime areas are a dubious metric given the undefined nature of the specific types of crime being targeted.

Blah blah blah
Keep people safe, including poor minorities who live in the neighborhoods with cameras
Common sense has gone out the window
Everything has to be explained and justified so as not to offend
-DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would be the concern?

+1 Obey laws and.no.concerns.

I mean, why don’t we just have a cop personally follow you around all day to watch just in case you break any laws? If you obey the law, what possible objection could you have?

Frankly, it would not bother me at all. I'm sure a shock to you, but most people are going about their business of working, taking care of their families, etc. They aren't breaking laws.