WaPo -- New cars out of reach for many

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article depressed me. The big takeaway for me is that car manufacturers are doing away with entry level models. DD is graduating college and will need to purchase a car. She’s been saving for a down payment but she will never be able to afford something new at these prices and interest rates. DH has spent months looking for a safe and reliable used car for her but those prices are insane and forget about financing it.

They're not doing away with entry level models. However, while supply chains remain constrained, and they can only manufacture a certain number, they need to focus on the most profitable ones for now.

Maybe you haven’t paid attention in the last couple of years. They are actually doing away with entry level models.
Ford and GM used to sell small and cheap entry level cars like the Ford Focus or Chevy Cruze. They have been discontinued.
The entry level Ford is now the Ford Escape, an SUV.
Japanese brands will soon follow. The Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla will be discontinued in the US and replaced with their SUV-like versions.
Manufacturers figure that they can take a car, make it slightly bigger and raise the ground clearance, and sell if for $10k more.

Volkswagen Jetta $20k
Hyundai Elantra $20k
Nissan Kicks $20k
Nissan Sentra $19k
Kia Soul $19k
Subaru Impreza $19k
Kia Forte $19k
Hyundai Venue $19k
Kia Rio $16k
Mitsubishi Mirage $16k
Hyundai Accent $16k
Nissan Versa $15k

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/advice/cheapest-cars-on-the-market?slide=3

When half of that list is from Hyundai/Kia I think you are sort of proving PP's point

How is that proving her point? Those are decent, inexpensive cars, and widely available. There's also Mitsubishi, Nissan, and VW, which is the largest automaker in the world.

It's no secret that Detroit's Big Three make their profits in full sized trucks. The F-150 has been the best selling vehicle in the United States for over 40 years. The Silverado and the Ram are 2nd and 3rd behind it, respectively. This is the result of the chicken tax from the 1960s.

But PPs was that there are no inexpensive cars available, and that's demonstrably false.

Of the top 6-10 automakers in the world there is precisely one model on that list. I think that supports OPs point that automakers in general are moving away from entry level models. I didn't take the point to be that no inexpensive car is available at all, but that the options and competition in that space have narrowed a lot.

[Anonymous]

I dunno, caravans just offered me $16K for a car I paid $28K for six years ago. And that’s a lowball from what I’ve read. That seems like a pretty good deal to me for 6 years of use.

[Anonymous]

The other reason car makers are getting away from cars is that SUVs and trucks don’t have to meeting same fuel efficiency standards. Even small SUVs are considered light trucks.

[Anonymous]

In most countries cars appreciate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article depressed me. The big takeaway for me is that car manufacturers are doing away with entry level models. DD is graduating college and will need to purchase a car. She’s been saving for a down payment but she will never be able to afford something new at these prices and interest rates. DH has spent months looking for a safe and reliable used car for her but those prices are insane and forget about financing it.

They're not doing away with entry level models. However, while supply chains remain constrained, and they can only manufacture a certain number, they need to focus on the most profitable ones for now.

Maybe you haven’t paid attention in the last couple of years. They are actually doing away with entry level models.
Ford and GM used to sell small and cheap entry level cars like the Ford Focus or Chevy Cruze. They have been discontinued.
The entry level Ford is now the Ford Escape, an SUV.
Japanese brands will soon follow. The Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla will be discontinued in the US and replaced with their SUV-like versions.
Manufacturers figure that they can take a car, make it slightly bigger and raise the ground clearance, and sell if for $10k more.

Volkswagen Jetta $20k
Hyundai Elantra $20k
Nissan Kicks $20k
Nissan Sentra $19k
Kia Soul $19k
Subaru Impreza $19k
Kia Forte $19k
Hyundai Venue $19k
Kia Rio $16k
Mitsubishi Mirage $16k
Hyundai Accent $16k
Nissan Versa $15k

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/advice/cheapest-cars-on-the-market?slide=3

When half of that list is from Hyundai/Kia I think you are sort of proving PP's point

How is that proving her point? Those are decent, inexpensive cars, and widely available. There's also Mitsubishi, Nissan, and VW, which is the largest automaker in the world.

It's no secret that Detroit's Big Three make their profits in full sized trucks. The F-150 has been the best selling vehicle in the United States for over 40 years. The Silverado and the Ram are 2nd and 3rd behind it, respectively. This is the result of the chicken tax from the 1960s.

But PPs was that there are no inexpensive cars available, and that's demonstrably false.

I'm the PP you are talking about. I never said that there was zero inexpensive entry level car available today.
I was making the point that they are disappearing year after year. It's a trend. The domestic car manufacturers have already ditched them all. Yes you would still find a few models from foreign manufacturers, but that list get shorter and shorter. You named 12 models on your list. Within the next five years, you won't be able to name 6.

[Anonymous]

I disagree that it is seen as failing not to have a new car. Of the folks I know, no one would ever purchase a new car off the lot due to the rapid depreciation. Some might buy close to new, but never brand new. In my circles it'd be seen a foolish to purchase a new car. My family has always bought used Toyota's with about 30K miles on them. Our current car has nearly 100K miles on it and I hope to be driving it at least another ten years or more. In the meantime, we put a little money away each month so that we can pay for our next used car in cash. We theoretically could afford a new car, but why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I disagree that it is seen as failing not to have a new car. Of the folks I know, no one would ever purchase a new car off the lot due to the rapid depreciation. Some might buy close to new, but never brand new. In my circles it'd be seen a foolish to purchase a new car. My family has always bought used Toyota's with about 30K miles on them. Our current car has nearly 100K miles on it and I hope to be driving it at least another ten years or more. In the meantime, we put a little money away each month so that we can pay for our next used car in cash. We theoretically could afford a new car, but why?

When I was looking at cars last year, I was convinced I would buy a newer used car. I was pretty shocked to find out there’s not really a savings anymore, so I just got a néw car for a quite nominal price difference. You can get better financing on a new car, too, and you know exactly what you are getting. It’s no longer cut and dried.

[Anonymous]

People in the US have no idea how good they have it! Every time I read some whining about someone being oppressed or not able to afford something - except basic room and board, healthcare, and education - I roll my eyes.

[Anonymous]

The Chevy Trailblazer and Chevy Trax are now two cheapest Chevys.

Chevy just discontinued Spark and already discontinued Cruze.

The Chevy Malibu is also on way out. That is a great family friendly sedan at a good price.

My Chevy dealership used to have deals 5 years ago with zero percent down and zero percent financing.

My 2017 Chevy Cruze for instance brand new they were doing 7 year loans for $190 a month with zero down.

I recall he also had base model 2017 Sparks that was 14k.Chevy ran a 20 percent off year end sale which was $11,200. And he was doing $149 7 years loans. He said he was selling then all day long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In most countries cars appreciate

In Argentina, maybe with the rampant inflation. Otherwise, cars appreciating in value over time is not the norm. Doesn't make sense either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People in the US have no idea how good they have it! Every time I read some whining about someone being oppressed or not able to afford something - except basic room and board, healthcare, and education - I roll my eyes.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a little aggravated by this article (or at least the headline). Yes, a new car was part of the American "dream" -- but by definition that meant it was always out of reach for many. I remember the first time my parents bought a new car (in the 1970s) and how thrilled they were -- they were almost 50 and had decent jobs. People in the 1960s, and 70s bought used cars and fixed them up or made do. Then everything got exported to cheaper countries, and financing became ridiculously cheap, and all of a sudden you had new cars become the norm for teenagers and 20-somethings. Unfortunately, during that time period, people became really snotty about cars, so now it's considered failing not to have a nice new car. I recall in the 70s, it was not uncommon for someone to have a car up on blocks in their driveway, even in a middle class neighborhood. Now that's the kind of thing that would have you on the HOA list.
I'm 50, so I guess that's old to some people, but I have a recurring pet peeve that people seem to not realize that the consumer opulence of the past several decades was an anomaly and probably due for a course correction.

(And none of this takes away from the fact that the depression of American wages for the working and middle class over the past several decades is an awful thing for our country. But the two are rather connected -- we exported good manufacturing jobs to cheaper countries in order to get cheap consumer goods, but in the process hollowed out our working/middle class.)

You're ignoring regional influence. One of my siblings lived in the rust belt for decades and when spouse and I moved to this area my sibling was stunned by the number of new shiny expensive cars here. It looks very different if you drive around different areas of the country. Where my mom lives, you still see mostly American modest cars.

It always amazes me the sheer ignorance of the typical affluent urban poster on this site. We have a house in the mountains and NOBDODY and I mean NOBODY buys new cars. This “travesty” of shiny new cars that is unaffordable is a symptom of affluenza. My in-laws live in South Carolina in a fixed income and my FIL still drives the same car he bought the year DH and I got married in 2004. He simply works on it himself. He’s kept that running for minimal amounts of money.

The average DCUM poster is a caricature you’d expect read for fun about in the Onion.

[Anonymous]

I read the article thinking about how my recent car purchase doesn’t fit with the article’s premise. I bought a Hyundai Kona, a small SUV. I got the base model, on which a bunch of safety features are standard, and added AWD. It was $23,000.

I traded in a 10-year old Honda Civic for over $10,000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article depressed me. The big takeaway for me is that car manufacturers are doing away with entry level models. DD is graduating college and will need to purchase a car. She’s been saving for a down payment but she will never be able to afford something new at these prices and interest rates. DH has spent months looking for a safe and reliable used car for her but those prices are insane and forget about financing it.

They're not doing away with entry level models. However, while supply chains remain constrained, and they can only manufacture a certain number, they need to focus on the most profitable ones for now.

Maybe you haven’t paid attention in the last couple of years. They are actually doing away with entry level models.
Ford and GM used to sell small and cheap entry level cars like the Ford Focus or Chevy Cruze. They have been discontinued.
The entry level Ford is now the Ford Escape, an SUV.
Japanese brands will soon follow. The Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla will be discontinued in the US and replaced with their SUV-like versions.
Manufacturers figure that they can take a car, make it slightly bigger and raise the ground clearance, and sell if for $10k more.

Volkswagen Jetta $20k
Hyundai Elantra $20k
Nissan Kicks $20k
Nissan Sentra $19k
Kia Soul $19k
Subaru Impreza $19k
Kia Forte $19k
Hyundai Venue $19k
Kia Rio $16k
Mitsubishi Mirage $16k
Hyundai Accent $16k
Nissan Versa $15k

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/advice/cheapest-cars-on-the-market?slide=3

When half of that list is from Hyundai/Kia I think you are sort of proving PP's point

How is that proving her point? Those are decent, inexpensive cars, and widely available. There's also Mitsubishi, Nissan, and VW, which is the largest automaker in the world.

It's no secret that Detroit's Big Three make their profits in full sized trucks. The F-150 has been the best selling vehicle in the United States for over 40 years. The Silverado and the Ram are 2nd and 3rd behind it, respectively. This is the result of the chicken tax from the 1960s.

But PPs was that there are no inexpensive cars available, and that's demonstrably false.

I'm the PP you are talking about. I never said that there was zero inexpensive entry level car available today.
I was making the point that they are disappearing year after year. It's a trend. The domestic car manufacturers have already ditched them all. Yes you would still find a few models from foreign manufacturers, but that list get shorter and shorter. You named 12 models on your list. Within the next five years, you won't be able to name 6.

Agree. My first car was ford Focus- great entry level car! My next was a Subaru Impreza, which I considered a nice upgrade and we still own it. The new Imprezas are bigger than mine. The Subarus all get bigger and more expensive every year. Put a new Forester next to a 15yo one and it's shocking. There was a time when it was a nice little wagon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a little aggravated by this article (or at least the headline). Yes, a new car was part of the American "dream" -- but by definition that meant it was always out of reach for many. I remember the first time my parents bought a new car (in the 1970s) and how thrilled they were -- they were almost 50 and had decent jobs. People in the 1960s, and 70s bought used cars and fixed them up or made do. Then everything got exported to cheaper countries, and financing became ridiculously cheap, and all of a sudden you had new cars become the norm for teenagers and 20-somethings. Unfortunately, during that time period, people became really snotty about cars, so now it's considered failing not to have a nice new car. I recall in the 70s, it was not uncommon for someone to have a car up on blocks in their driveway, even in a middle class neighborhood. Now that's the kind of thing that would have you on the HOA list.
I'm 50, so I guess that's old to some people, but I have a recurring pet peeve that people seem to not realize that the consumer opulence of the past several decades was an anomaly and probably due for a course correction.

(And none of this takes away from the fact that the depression of American wages for the working and middle class over the past several decades is an awful thing for our country. But the two are rather connected -- we exported good manufacturing jobs to cheaper countries in order to get cheap consumer goods, but in the process hollowed out our working/middle class.)

You're ignoring regional influence. One of my siblings lived in the rust belt for decades and when spouse and I moved to this area my sibling was stunned by the number of new shiny expensive cars here. It looks very different if you drive around different areas of the country. Where my mom lives, you still see mostly American modest cars.

It always amazes me the sheer ignorance of the typical affluent urban poster on this site. We have a house in the mountains and NOBDODY and I mean NOBODY buys new cars. This “travesty” of shiny new cars that is unaffordable is a symptom of affluenza. My in-laws live in South Carolina in a fixed income and my FIL still drives the same car he bought the year DH and I got married in 2004. He simply works on it himself. He’s kept that running for minimal amounts of money.

The average DCUM poster is a caricature you’d expect read for fun about in the Onion.

Old cars make a lot of sense when you can work on them yourselves. For the rest of us non-handy people they eventually become a money pit.