Special Needs Trust out of money?

[Anonymous]

OP again. He was on Medicaid and living at home for years until his mother died then the house was sold and his proceeds (1/3, he had two siblings) were pit in a checking account that was already made with the name Special Needs Trust for the benefit of ______.

[Anonymous]

Perhaps the uncle made poor investments

[Anonymous]

That’s terrible, and certainly not what his mother intended (and my worst nightmare as the parent of a SN child).

I don’t know if Adult Protective Services investigates things like this, although the money is already gone so it’s not like their oversight would do much now).

Hopefully your uncle will still provide oversight now that there are no funds; it sounds like your family member will still need help utilizing his SNAP benefits, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again. He was on Medicaid and living at home for years until his mother died then the house was sold and his proceeds (1/3, he had two siblings) were pit in a checking account that was already made with the name Special Needs Trust for the benefit of ______.

It’s really hard to shield money from Medicaid. If the money was for his care and there were no limits on how it was spent (like he was given $10k per year or something like that), then it’s not surprising that the money went fast. Even if there were limits, Medicaid would have required it to be spent for his care and Medicaid would have reduced its payment for the apartment and services. That might have been worse for all of you. It sounds like you all want him to have things beyond what public funds pay for and you would have had to pay for them yourselves if the trust had annual limits which would have to go for the cost of his care. You have to remember that Medicaid is for the destitute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That’s terrible, and certainly not what his mother intended (and my worst nightmare as the parent of a SN child).

I don’t know if Adult Protective Services investigates things like this, although the money is already gone so it’s not like their oversight would do much now).

Hopefully your uncle will still provide oversight now that there are no funds; it sounds like your family member will still need help utilizing his SNAP benefits, etc.

Adult Protective Services barely does much in truly dire situations, so I highly doubt they would be much help with this. It's simple enough. The first step is to see the accounting. The uncle has to provide this. You could see if a free legal consulting place could get involved on the brother's behalf and write an official letter or if you can just write a letter and send it certified mail to start if he won't answer requests. Before you jump to anything just see where the money went. It's not good that it wasn't invested. The money can go fast, but I am unclear about how medical expenses worked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. He was on Medicaid and living at home for years until his mother died then the house was sold and his proceeds (1/3, he had two siblings) were pit in a checking account that was already made with the name Special Needs Trust for the benefit of ______.

It’s really hard to shield money from Medicaid. If the money was for his care and there were no limits on how it was spent (like he was given $10k per year or something like that), then it’s not surprising that the money went fast. Even if there were limits, Medicaid would have required it to be spent for his care and Medicaid would have reduced its payment for the apartment and services. That might have been worse for all of you. It sounds like you all want him to have things beyond what public funds pay for and you would have had to pay for them yourselves if the trust had annual limits which would have to go for the cost of his care. You have to remember that Medicaid is for the destitute.

This. If he was already on Medicaid before his mother died, Medicaid has rules on how an inheritance is handled and used. He would be required to spend down the inheritance before Medicaid resumes paying for his needs.

You can read up on Medicaid rules online but the family may want to see an attorney on how to best handle any possible future financial gifts and bequests to him because Medicaid rules will apply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. It was money from house sales, no interest bearing securities or a well crafted portfolio, just money in a parked checking account as far as I can tell. I was told the Trust pays for any legal fees or accounting related to it, which is especially outrageous when there’s no money to even do this. I don’t have the resources to hire a lawyer to get blood from a stone. I just want to know if it really is common, in people’s experience, to have money in an SNT go so fast. Thank you everyone.

Everything depends on how it was structured. If the money was your BILs but accessed through a trustee, Medicaid has spend down provisions which would deplete the money extremely fast. And those provisions would not allow him to continue receiving Medicaid if you tried to limit immediate access to money. It’s not easy to be a trustee under these circumstances.

I think there may be a way to structure trusts to prevent this but it can’t be done with the Medicaid recipient’s own money after the Medicaid placement is established.

Honestly you all are in a great position given that he has a Medicaid placement. You have no idea how hard they can be to get. I know there are things you all will want to pay for but the placement should be providing for all needs.

It was a SNT. The attorney would know the state’s Medicaid regulations and fund it accordingly. It’s meant to pay for extras that he can’t afford. It’s not meant to take the place of Medicaid. Unless he is in some downhome red state and is disabled Medicaid is a given.

The money should have been in a mutual fund with an attached checking account. Something safe but making money too. There should be nonprofit agencies that could help see if funds were stolen.

[Anonymous]

Of course the uncle helped the money to go faster than normal. No doubt about it.
How are you involved in this? Is he asking you for money?
I would just stay far far away. He has food and shelter. Uncle can get him extra help.
You won’t be able to change anything, you will just be wasting your nerves

[Anonymous]

I parked in social service for 20 years and I can tell you 400,000 does not get you far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. It was money from house sales, no interest bearing securities or a well crafted portfolio, just money in a parked checking account as far as I can tell. I was told the Trust pays for any legal fees or accounting related to it, which is especially outrageous when there’s no money to even do this. I don’t have the resources to hire a lawyer to get blood from a stone. I just want to know if it really is common, in people’s experience, to have money in an SNT go so fast. Thank you everyone.

Everything depends on how it was structured. If the money was your BILs but accessed through a trustee, Medicaid has spend down provisions which would deplete the money extremely fast. And those provisions would not allow him to continue receiving Medicaid if you tried to limit immediate access to money. It’s not easy to be a trustee under these circumstances.

I think there may be a way to structure trusts to prevent this but it can’t be done with the Medicaid recipient’s own money after the Medicaid placement is established.

Honestly you all are in a great position given that he has a Medicaid placement. You have no idea how hard they can be to get. I know there are things you all will want to pay for but the placement should be providing for all needs.

It was a SNT. The attorney would know the state’s Medicaid regulations and fund it accordingly. It’s meant to pay for extras that he can’t afford. It’s not meant to take the place of Medicaid. Unless he is in some downhome red state and is disabled Medicaid is a given.

The money should have been in a mutual fund with an attached checking account. Something safe but making money too. There should be nonprofit agencies that could help see if funds were stolen.

It’s not clear from anything that OP posted that there is an actual trust. OP says that his share of the inheritance was put in a checking account called special needs trust. Calling something a trust doesn’t make it one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. It was money from house sales, no interest bearing securities or a well crafted portfolio, just money in a parked checking account as far as I can tell. I was told the Trust pays for any legal fees or accounting related to it, which is especially outrageous when there’s no money to even do this. I don’t have the resources to hire a lawyer to get blood from a stone. I just want to know if it really is common, in people’s experience, to have money in an SNT go so fast. Thank you everyone.

Everything depends on how it was structured. If the money was your BILs but accessed through a trustee, Medicaid has spend down provisions which would deplete the money extremely fast. And those provisions would not allow him to continue receiving Medicaid if you tried to limit immediate access to money. It’s not easy to be a trustee under these circumstances.

I think there may be a way to structure trusts to prevent this but it can’t be done with the Medicaid recipient’s own money after the Medicaid placement is established.

Honestly you all are in a great position given that he has a Medicaid placement. You have no idea how hard they can be to get. I know there are things you all will want to pay for but the placement should be providing for all needs.

It was a SNT. The attorney would know the state’s Medicaid regulations and fund it accordingly. It’s meant to pay for extras that he can’t afford. It’s not meant to take the place of Medicaid. Unless he is in some downhome red state and is disabled Medicaid is a given.

The money should have been in a mutual fund with an attached checking account. Something safe but making money too. There should be nonprofit agencies that could help see if funds were stolen.

It’s not clear from anything that OP posted that there is an actual trust. OP says that his share of the inheritance was put in a checking account called special needs trust. Calling something a trust doesn’t make it one.

Also Medicaid has a five year look back period even for trusts. So for money received after Medicaid services began, the look back period can’t be satisfied and the money likely went to pay for the program itself, which Medicaid will pick up again after assets are depleted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. It was money from house sales, no interest bearing securities or a well crafted portfolio, just money in a parked checking account as far as I can tell. I was told the Trust pays for any legal fees or accounting related to it, which is especially outrageous when there’s no money to even do this. I don’t have the resources to hire a lawyer to get blood from a stone. I just want to know if it really is common, in people’s experience, to have money in an SNT go so fast. Thank you everyone.

Everything depends on how it was structured. If the money was your BILs but accessed through a trustee, Medicaid has spend down provisions which would deplete the money extremely fast. And those provisions would not allow him to continue receiving Medicaid if you tried to limit immediate access to money. It’s not easy to be a trustee under these circumstances.

I think there may be a way to structure trusts to prevent this but it can’t be done with the Medicaid recipient’s own money after the Medicaid placement is established.

Honestly you all are in a great position given that he has a Medicaid placement. You have no idea how hard they can be to get. I know there are things you all will want to pay for but the placement should be providing for all needs.

It was a SNT. The attorney would know the state’s Medicaid regulations and fund it accordingly. It’s meant to pay for extras that he can’t afford. It’s not meant to take the place of Medicaid. Unless he is in some downhome red state and is disabled Medicaid is a given.

The money should have been in a mutual fund with an attached checking account. Something safe but making money too. There should be nonprofit agencies that could help see if funds were stolen.

It’s not clear from anything that OP posted that there is an actual trust. OP says that his share of the inheritance was put in a checking account called special needs trust. Calling something a trust doesn’t make it one.

This is a good point. They may have called it that, but for a real trust you set it up with a lawyer and there are checks and balances.

[Anonymous]

You and your sibling need to have a lawyer review everything before you send any money to your uncle. You can hire an attorney to represent your brother and look into whether the uncle broke his fiduciary responsibility.

An ABLE account or special needs trust does not trigger Medicaid or other social services. It doesn’t show up as income or assets owned by the disabled person. This is the point of these trusts. It’s also why the accounts can’t be used for rent, food, utilities etc.

Unless the uncle was using the trust to pay for residential treatment facilities or in home personal caregivers or private psychiatrists that don’t take Medicaid then something is wrong.

[Anonymous]

$400,000 is not $4 million. This is not the same as retirement where you can live off interest. Interest was also historically low for the past decade. My savings account sometimes did not even pay 1%.

The uncle was probably not financially savvy but there are many more expenses than just food and rent. With a SN sibling, I would think the siblings would let all the proceeds of the house go to the SN adult when mom died.

How are you involved kn this?

Siblings should step up.

[Anonymous]

$400,000 over 12 years will not get you very far with specialized care even if it is Medicaid subsidized...... And people are right. There are caps on how much a person can have an asset and still receive maximum Medicaid funding..... There are also a number of treatments, medications and providers who are not Medicaid eligible.....
In order to care someone for their lifetime well over $400,000 is needed unless you want them to entirely live off of Medicaid funding which would be an okay life but definitely not great.