Expectations about behavior at Whitman School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anon156 wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your daughter needs an psychological evaluation, OP, to assess whether she has ADHD, or anxiety, or something else that is predisposing her to such behaviors. You would be a neglectful parent to ignore this and chalk it up to her friends' bad influences, because if she has untreated issues, she will continue to suffer and reduce her chances of creating healthy friendships and academic success.

Walt Whitman is an academic pressure cooker (read The Overachievers, by a Whitman alum, about the school), and most kids stay out of trouble because they're too busy working to get into selective universities.

MCPS and other public school systems are known for their failed restorative justice policies and lack of discipline when it comes to real crime and assault. MCPS has a rulebook, but I've got to say, it's rarely followed, particularly for classroom behavior issues and dress code issues. Children with behavior disorders (ex: who scream at teachers and throw chairs, we've know a few over the course of 12 years of MCPS) and who should really be in a contained classroom under special guidance, do not face much discipline because teachers and administrators' hands are tied, due to deliberate prioritization of graduation rates. Every student is pushed to graduate in the hopes they will be financially independent as adults, even if they haven't actually fulfilled academic requirements. So families flock to wealthy neighborhoods that place heavy importance on academics, in an attempt to get their kids in with a crowd of hard-working students. It usually works, which is why they keep doing it.

This is the reality of public school, where they can't select on entry, OP. So it behooves your child to exercise self-control and develop her own work ethic. Help her with that.

Thanks for this - I just wanted to reassure that DD is already under psychological support - I am just weighing in my mind whether she would thrive or she would struggle at WW. I am sure she has the brains to go through it academically - it is just a matter of whether she wants to put the hard work and deal with the pressure or become disruptive, that is what I am trying to work our in my mind which way will it go ... I already ordered the book, thanks.

I am confused as from one side I see all these posts about WW being pretty hard and academically rigorous (which I love it personally!) but on the other side I come across about the drug misuse, the terrible sexual allegations (including the coach and the annual ball, now cancelled), the revolting racists incidents and the incidents with the three kids from the youth shelter. The neighborhood seems amazingly safe - never had any concern walking around although admittingly I did not walk at night in the residential area, only in the Apple store area. t

I am mentally struggling to reconcile the diverging pictures (violence, allegations, racism on one side and academic excellence and well-behaved children on the other) which I get from the same school! Any help for me to go through this process would be great

It sounds like you have the right picture of WW's situation. On the academic rigor, I would say that all MCPS schools are what you make them. At the top schools in the county, kids sign up for tons of AP courses (too many, imho, because there is a sort of arms race of keeping up with peers). Lots of kids over-achieving to build a good profile for college admissions. But MCPS, itself, is very lenient academically. Late work is tolerated (in my school, it is not quite encouraged but my kid has the impression that it is normal and no big deal because of the leniency of policies). There are also tons of makeup quizzes offered and that kind of thing. So yes, kids work very hard and push themselves for top grades. But the school itself gives them a lot of slack.

Socially, there are definitely all of the incidents that you describe. The number of racial incidents is heartbreaking. My own experience with them is that they come from rich, entitled kids and are done anonymously. As an AA family, I can say that all AA kids we know (probably all minority kids) have some experience with issues, but they are mostly microaggressions and things like anonymous graffiti rather than direct racial confrontations. Drugs are also a problem, as they seem to be everywhere. (I have a kid at a top private university and she says that the worst drug use there is among the rich kids from elite private high schools).

Yes, because they have the money to buy a lot of expensive drugs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anon156 wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your daughter needs an psychological evaluation, OP, to assess whether she has ADHD, or anxiety, or something else that is predisposing her to such behaviors. You would be a neglectful parent to ignore this and chalk it up to her friends' bad influences, because if she has untreated issues, she will continue to suffer and reduce her chances of creating healthy friendships and academic success.

Walt Whitman is an academic pressure cooker (read The Overachievers, by a Whitman alum, about the school), and most kids stay out of trouble because they're too busy working to get into selective universities.

MCPS and other public school systems are known for their failed restorative justice policies and lack of discipline when it comes to real crime and assault. MCPS has a rulebook, but I've got to say, it's rarely followed, particularly for classroom behavior issues and dress code issues. Children with behavior disorders (ex: who scream at teachers and throw chairs, we've know a few over the course of 12 years of MCPS) and who should really be in a contained classroom under special guidance, do not face much discipline because teachers and administrators' hands are tied, due to deliberate prioritization of graduation rates. Every student is pushed to graduate in the hopes they will be financially independent as adults, even if they haven't actually fulfilled academic requirements. So families flock to wealthy neighborhoods that place heavy importance on academics, in an attempt to get their kids in with a crowd of hard-working students. It usually works, which is why they keep doing it.

This is the reality of public school, where they can't select on entry, OP. So it behooves your child to exercise self-control and develop her own work ethic. Help her with that.

Yes, and the general culture. But the same are true for WW (to a slightly lesser extent).

Thanks for this - I just wanted to reassure that DD is already under psychological support - I am just weighing in my mind whether she would thrive or she would struggle at WW. I am sure she has the brains to go through it academically - it is just a matter of whether she wants to put the hard work and deal with the pressure or become disruptive, that is what I am trying to work our in my mind which way will it go ... I already ordered the book, thanks.

I am confused as from one side I see all these posts about WW being pretty hard and academically rigorous (which I love it personally!) but on the other side I come across about the drug misuse, the terrible sexual allegations (including the coach and the annual ball, now cancelled), the revolting racists incidents and the incidents with the three kids from the youth shelter. The neighborhood seems amazingly safe - never had any concern walking around although admittingly I did not walk at night in the residential area, only in the Apple store area. t

I am mentally struggling to reconcile the diverging pictures (violence, allegations, racism on one side and academic excellence and well-behaved children on the other) which I get from the same school! Any help for me to go through this process would be great

It sounds like you have the right picture of WW's situation. On the academic rigor, I would say that all MCPS schools are what you make them. At the top schools in the county, kids sign up for tons of AP courses (too many, imho, because there is a sort of arms race of keeping up with peers). Lots of kids over-achieving to build a good profile for college admissions. But MCPS, itself, is very lenient academically. Late work is tolerated (in my school, it is not quite encouraged but my kid has the impression that it is normal and no big deal because of the leniency of policies). There are also tons of makeup quizzes offered and that kind of thing. So yes, kids work very hard and push themselves for top grades. But the school itself gives them a lot of slack.

Socially, there are definitely all of the incidents that you describe. The number of racial incidents is heartbreaking. My own experience with them is that they come from rich, entitled kids and are done anonymously. As an AA family, I can say that all AA kids we know (probably all minority kids) have some experience with issues, but they are mostly microaggressions and things like anonymous graffiti rather than direct racial confrontations. Drugs are also a problem, as they seem to be everywhere. (I have a kid at a top private university and she says that the worst drug use there is among the rich kids from elite private high schools).

Yes, because they have the money to buy a lot of expensive drugs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anon156 wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your daughter needs an psychological evaluation, OP, to assess whether she has ADHD, or anxiety, or something else that is predisposing her to such behaviors. You would be a neglectful parent to ignore this and chalk it up to her friends' bad influences, because if she has untreated issues, she will continue to suffer and reduce her chances of creating healthy friendships and academic success.

Walt Whitman is an academic pressure cooker (read The Overachievers, by a Whitman alum, about the school), and most kids stay out of trouble because they're too busy working to get into selective universities.

MCPS and other public school systems are known for their failed restorative justice policies and lack of discipline when it comes to real crime and assault. MCPS has a rulebook, but I've got to say, it's rarely followed, particularly for classroom behavior issues and dress code issues. Children with behavior disorders (ex: who scream at teachers and throw chairs, we've know a few over the course of 12 years of MCPS) and who should really be in a contained classroom under special guidance, do not face much discipline because teachers and administrators' hands are tied, due to deliberate prioritization of graduation rates. Every student is pushed to graduate in the hopes they will be financially independent as adults, even if they haven't actually fulfilled academic requirements. So families flock to wealthy neighborhoods that place heavy importance on academics, in an attempt to get their kids in with a crowd of hard-working students. It usually works, which is why they keep doing it.

This is the reality of public school, where they can't select on entry, OP. So it behooves your child to exercise self-control and develop her own work ethic. Help her with that.

Thanks for this - I just wanted to reassure that DD is already under psychological support - I am just weighing in my mind whether she would thrive or she would struggle at WW. I am sure she has the brains to go through it academically - it is just a matter of whether she wants to put the hard work and deal with the pressure or become disruptive, that is what I am trying to work our in my mind which way will it go ... I already ordered the book, thanks.

I am confused as from one side I see all these posts about WW being pretty hard and academically rigorous (which I love it personally!) but on the other side I come across about the drug misuse, the terrible sexual allegations (including the coach and the annual ball, now cancelled), the revolting racists incidents and the incidents with the three kids from the youth shelter. The neighborhood seems amazingly safe - never had any concern walking around although admittingly I did not walk at night in the residential area, only in the Apple store area. t

I am mentally struggling to reconcile the diverging pictures (violence, allegations, racism on one side and academic excellence and well-behaved children on the other) which I get from the same school! Any help for me to go through this process would be great

It sounds like you have the right picture of WW's situation. On the academic rigor, I would say that all MCPS schools are what you make them. At the top schools in the county, kids sign up for tons of AP courses (too many, imho, because there is a sort of arms race of keeping up with peers). Lots of kids over-achieving to build a good profile for college admissions. But MCPS, itself, is very lenient academically. Late work is tolerated (in my school, it is not quite encouraged but my kid has the impression that it is normal and no big deal because of the leniency of policies). There are also tons of makeup quizzes offered and that kind of thing. So yes, kids work very hard and push themselves for top grades. But the school itself gives them a lot of slack.

Socially, there are definitely all of the incidents that you describe. The number of racial incidents is heartbreaking. My own experience with them is that they come from rich, entitled kids and are done anonymously. As an AA family, I can say that all AA kids we know (probably all minority kids) have some experience with issues, but they are mostly microaggressions and things like anonymous graffiti rather than direct racial confrontations. Drugs are also a problem, as they seem to be everywhere. (I have a kid at a top private university and she says that the worst drug use there is among the rich kids from elite private high schools).

Yes, because they have the money to buy a lot of expensive drugs.

Same is true for Whitman.

[Anonymous]

Whitman will not solve your kids problems. I guarantee it

[Anonymous]

OP have you thought about Walter Johnson HS?

[Anonymous]

Anon156 wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your daughter needs an psychological evaluation, OP, to assess whether she has ADHD, or anxiety, or something else that is predisposing her to such behaviors. You would be a neglectful parent to ignore this and chalk it up to her friends' bad influences, because if she has untreated issues, she will continue to suffer and reduce her chances of creating healthy friendships and academic success.

Walt Whitman is an academic pressure cooker (read The Overachievers, by a Whitman alum, about the school), and most kids stay out of trouble because they're too busy working to get into selective universities.

MCPS and other public school systems are known for their failed restorative justice policies and lack of discipline when it comes to real crime and assault. MCPS has a rulebook, but I've got to say, it's rarely followed, particularly for classroom behavior issues and dress code issues. Children with behavior disorders (ex: who scream at teachers and throw chairs, we've know a few over the course of 12 years of MCPS) and who should really be in a contained classroom under special guidance, do not face much discipline because teachers and administrators' hands are tied, due to deliberate prioritization of graduation rates. Every student is pushed to graduate in the hopes they will be financially independent as adults, even if they haven't actually fulfilled academic requirements. So families flock to wealthy neighborhoods that place heavy importance on academics, in an attempt to get their kids in with a crowd of hard-working students. It usually works, which is why they keep doing it.

This is the reality of public school, where they can't select on entry, OP. So it behooves your child to exercise self-control and develop her own work ethic. Help her with that.

Thanks for this - I just wanted to reassure that DD is already under psychological support - I am just weighing in my mind whether she would thrive or she would struggle at WW. I am sure she has the brains to go through it academically - it is just a matter of whether she wants to put the hard work and deal with the pressure or become disruptive, that is what I am trying to work our in my mind which way will it go ... I already ordered the book, thanks.

I am confused as from one side I see all these posts about WW being pretty hard and academically rigorous (which I love it personally!) but on the other side I come across about the drug misuse, the terrible sexual allegations (including the coach and the annual ball, now cancelled), the revolting racists incidents and the incidents with the three kids from the youth shelter. The neighborhood seems amazingly safe - never had any concern walking around although admittingly I did not walk at night in the residential area, only in the Apple store area. t

I am mentally struggling to reconcile the diverging pictures (violence, allegations, racism on one side and academic excellence and well-behaved children on the other) which I get from the same school! Any help for me to go through this process would be great

OP there are more than 2000 students in the school. There will be some of everything. There are very smart and driven kids, there are smart and chill kids, there are kids who struggle with school, and everything in between. You seem to want a single definition of the school and the student body and you just can't get that. Stop trying to generalize. Go visit the school and you can see if you think it is a fit for your daughter. Talk to the counselors about her behavior problems and see if they think it is a fit or what kinds of supports she will have.

[Anonymous]

Anon156 wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You have to be a troll. The school is the top academic school in the county other than the magnet programs but under the surface it has a lot of issues including race issues, and a community that covered up or was in denial about a sexually abusive coach because the parents want everything to appear like Pleasantville. This is why the disruptive or underachieving children we have known there find it extremely stressful and hate it. Heck even the ones that are high achieving sometimes hate it because of all the stress to be perfect.

Not a troll, honestly. what I am expressing here is out of genuine concern for my daughter - I am reaching out for insights to help me think things through. Not out of boredom and to have fun reading your responses, as a troll would do! the fact that it is the top academic school in the county is what drew me to it + Bethesda is lovely... I know my daughter could handle the academic side if she put her minds to it and if I am able to support her adequately

Don't worry; DCUM gonna DCUM. It's a toxic cesspool. But our toxic cesspool!

[Anonymous]

Anon156 wrote:Hello there

we are about to move to MoCo and thinking about the Whitman cluster. Attracted by the academic side of the school but concerned as my daughter has had a few behavioral problems in her previous school which was extra strict. Just wondering what the expectations about behavior in class look like at WW and how hard teachers come down with detentions, suspensions etc.

Also wondering about fights on campus and incidents. I feel some of the things I read over here about WW are quite appalling - it would be great to be reassured of how school life at WW would look like! Reading about those appalling things made me wonder if expectations of students behavior are quite low - which might be positive for my daughter but concerning for me!

Didn’t you say your child gravitates towards trouble?
Can you afford private?

[Anonymous]

When I went to Whitman in the mid to late 2000s, I saw two physical fights take place in school. One of them was so bad that the students involved got arrested. There was also a third time where one girl dragged/threw another girl across the cafeteria floor, but that wasn’t really a fight.

I know that sounds like nothing, but kids were definitely fighting off of school grounds as well.

Whitman seems like a top notch school on paper, but much like any other school, there are bad influences even at Whitman, and it sounds like your daughter is going to need your extra support and attention to make sure she doesn’t follow the bad influences at the school. Like another PP said, there are several good paths at school, but if you know that your daughter struggles, you need to watch her closely and stop her as soon as you notice that she is hanging around the wrong kids or finding bad influences in the school.